Leaving RF for a while.

[Caladan]

We don't stop, but when the people in debate breaks the rules, we need to inform the mods of the discrepancies.

This is one point that many staff members always encourage members to do. you will be surprised how many things can slip under our radar if they are not reported or because we are dealing with multiple other forum issues. simply inform the staff and let them know when you feel that there is a negative trend. all staff members have an interest to preserve the forums as a platform for the longstanding members, members who helped shape this place.
an interesting thing about moderation is that often we get complaints by both parties in the same debate saying that they are being targeted.
but correct reporting can really shift staff attention to an important trend on the forum. the staff cannot work alone without the platform of the forum, such as the report button, or the members adhering to the rules.

 

[Jeremy Mason]

This is one point that many staff members always encourage members to do. you will be surprised how many things can slip under our radar if they are not reported or because we are dealing with multiple other forum issues. simply inform the staff and let them know when you feel that there is a negative trend. all staff members have an interest to preserve the forums as a platform for the longstanding members, members who helped shape this place.
an interesting thing about moderation is that often we get complaints by both parties in the same debate saying that they are being targeted.
but correct reporting can really shift staff attention to an important trend on the forum. the staff cannot work alone without the platform of the forum, such as the report button, or the members adhering to the rules.

I think the mods are going to get the help that RF needs. I guess we will have to wait and see.

 

[YmirGF]

Anyway, to all you anti-gay bigots, those of you who have recently nonchalantly compared gays to child-rapists (and you know who you are). You win. You can have RF.

Ouch...

Alceste, I never say goodbye, but only say, "Cya soon!"

RF is an odd place. It tends to get the juices flowing on occasion, but for me, of late, it has become mind-numbingly boring. Evidently, I have not noticed the thread(s) you are talking about.

I will say that I support the mods/admin's on RF however. Moderation is a thankless task and is a position I would not accept in the extremely unlikely event that it was offered. Life is far too short for some things. My guess is that you have found something that life is too short for too.

Kick back, enjoy. There is a world outside of the confines of RF.

 

[Alceste]

I have a question.

many of the long debates here which seem to be above the dimension of time in RF are contermporary debates in the American system. for example same sex marriage and teaching evolution in school.
the two opposing views are debated by both parties, I don't think that staff can change the essense of the society itself which most dominates the forum.
most members are American and they argue the same things which are argued in American public debates, or in the American media.

isnt the whole power of debate the fact that you can provide good information about the issue?
for example push the right information on why we SHOULD legalize same sex marriage?
obivously we are far from the stage that same sex marriage are the rule of the land, are we not here on RF part of the debate? and should we not provide our debates instead of pretending there is no debate?
the question is: should we simply delete every debate which doesn't answer our own political criteria?
when do we stop? should we ban political threads that are simply not to the standards of the liberal majority?

I'm Canadian. The gay marriage debate is over in my country, and I think we're all pretty happy to see the back of it whatever our opinions were to begin with.

Personally, I just need to be on an internet that doesn't yell into my face that my fiance - the son of a gay man - is an all-caps ABOMINATION every day, for the sake of my own peace of mind.

 

[Caladan]

I'm Canadian. The gay marriage debate is over in my country, and I think we're all pretty happy to see the back of it whatever our opinions were to begin with.

Alas, in the rest of the world same sex marriage is debated at best and at worst homosexuals are discriminated against and persecuted.
so unfortunately the rest of the world still debates GLBT rights.

Personally, I just need to be on an internet that doesn't yell into my face that my fiance - the son of a gay man - is an all-caps ABOMINATION every day, for the sake of my own peace of mind.

I have gay men in my family as well, and of course personal friends. most of us are probably offended to some degree or the other by equating homosexuality with abomination. lets not pretend we are more unique in this regards than others.
the internet can be very ugly. at least RF is more balanced than many other corners of the internet. where by standard many members protest racism, homophobia and other activities in general.

 

[Renji]

Hi, everyone. I am taking a break, and I want to be completely clear that my reason for taking a break this time is that RF is filled with rampant, continuous anti-gay hate speech and the moderators, however much I love them, are doing nothing about it.

I'm a laisser-faire kind of person, and I'd be fine with it if they weren't moderating ANYTHING, but I've just had a post of mine edited because I said "god damn", and that's apparently far more offensive than saying homosexuality is the basically same as pedophilia or bestiality.

I will check back in a while to see if anything has improved, and I'll reply to this thread for a bit.

Anyway, to all you anti-gay bigots, those of you who have recently nonchalantly compared gays to child-rapists (and you know who you are). You win. You can have RF.

I think it isn't really the mods that are the main issue here, but RF members who have that way of thinking (comparing gays to rapists). Sometimes, they have this way of "hiding" their "real motives" in starting such thread. Only in the middle of that thread can you see their true "malevolent colors". You can actually observe that the way how they post. And yeah, I think that Rex has made a sticky before stating that the debates section will be loosely moderated, so we need not to take those debates personally..

But yeah dude, I'll miss you.

 

[work in progress]

Hi, everyone. I am taking a break, and I want to be completely clear that my reason for taking a break this time is that RF is filled with rampant, continuous anti-gay hate speech and the moderators, however much I love them, are doing nothing about it.

I'm a laisser-faire kind of person, and I'd be fine with it if they weren't moderating ANYTHING, but I've just had a post of mine edited because I said "god damn", and that's apparently far more offensive than saying homosexuality is the basically same as pedophilia or bestiality.

I will check back in a while to see if anything has improved, and I'll reply to this thread for a bit.

Anyway, to all you anti-gay bigots, those of you who have recently nonchalantly compared gays to child-rapists (and you know who you are). You win. You can have RF.

I'm sorry to hear that you might be leaving -- especially since you're someone who I'm almost always in agreement with on all sorts of issues.

Re: gay issues, I'm old enough to see the shift in attitudes (including my own) over the years. And since virtually every religious tradition condemns homosexuality, I'm not surprised that the more traditional, fundamentalist types are still preaching the same message. But, they'll just have to get over it, or get a new revelation or something. If they could get over inter-racial marriage, they'll eventually have to get used to gay marriage!

 

[work in progress]

I think it isn't really the mods that are the main issue here, but RF members who have that way of thinking (comparing gays to rapists). Sometimes, they have this way of "hiding" their "real motives" in starting such thread. Only in the middle of that thread can you see their true "malevolent colors". You can actually observe that the way how they post. And yeah, I think that Rex has made a sticky before stating that the debates section will be loosely moderated, so we need not to take those debates personally..

But yeah dude, I'll miss you.

That's why I'm not a big fan of forums that are tightly moderated! I tried some other forums for awhile, but got sick of some of the rules -- for example: you can't say "anti-abortion," you have to use "pro life" to describe people who are ANTI-ABORTION! And, regardless of how tight the rules are, people with evil intentions can find ways of being offensive.

 

[work in progress]

I'm Canadian. The gay marriage debate is over in my country, and I think we're all pretty happy to see the back of it whatever our opinions were to begin with.

Yes, for the benefit of everyone unfamiliar with the Canadian situation, there is no gay marriage controversy here anymore...no calls for repeal, or "defense of marriage"...not even in the conservative rags like the National Post, or the Sun newspapers.

 

[Alceste]

Yes, for the benefit of everyone unfamiliar with the Canadian situation, there is no gay marriage controversy here anymore...no calls for repeal, or "defense of marriage"...not even in the conservative rags like the National Post, or the Sun newspapers.

I think that's because it is only useful for scoring points with conservative voters when it can be painted as a looming threat to life as we know it and the end of the family unit. The morning after gay marriage is legal, nobody cares any more. They wake up and life is ticking over exactly the same as it ever was, except maybe a tiny little bit more fair. Nobody wants to reopen that debate and we know now it makes absolutely no difference to anybody but gay people whether or not they can be legally married. The horse is dead, the flogging might as well stop too. If I can respect one thing about Harper, it's his realization that reopening the debate is political suicide, and his decision to care more about that than his fundamentalist principles.

 

[Thief]

Hi, everyone. I am taking a break, and I want to be completely clear that my reason for taking a break this time is that RF is filled with rampant, continuous anti-gay hate speech and the moderators, however much I love them, are doing nothing about it.

I'm a laisser-faire kind of person, and I'd be fine with it if they weren't moderating ANYTHING, but I've just had a post of mine edited because I said "god damn", and that's apparently far more offensive than saying homosexuality is the basically same as pedophilia or bestiality.

I will check back in a while to see if anything has improved, and I'll reply to this thread for a bit.

Anyway, to all you anti-gay bigots, those of you who have recently nonchalantly compared gays to child-rapists (and you know who you are). You win. You can have RF.

Having similar problems....
Seems if I express my spiritual viewpoint as fact....that needs to be deleted.

In the meantime the trolls of the forum pick at my postings as if it's all fun and games.

As if matters of the spirit maybe .....funny?

 

[Thief]

Most of what I have to deal with has a thread of it's own....
A lengthy discussion of what goes on and why we don't like it.

If we push the 'button' each time it happens the staff would really have their hands full...putting out all the little fires.

I say...remove the line draw.

You came to the forum to speak your mind.
Do it.

If the other guy doesn't like it he can rebuttal...or ignore you.

Freedom of speech begins...without censor.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Alceste,

Normally I don't comment public on specific cases of moderation, but I'll keep my discussion general except where you've specifically mentioned details.

It's been the general approach here on RF that while we moderate things like personal attacks and profanity (which your "god damn" qualifies as, albeit mild profanity by many people's measure), we don't censor ideas... not even when you or any other member finds them offensive.

If someone was to say (for instance) that homosexuality is as bad as pedophilia or bestiality, I would probably find this offensive myself, and as an individual member of the forum, I might decide to respond to the post and argue against the ideas in it. However, as a member of staff, as long as I thought the post was expressing a sincere opinion and wasn't just flame-bait for the purposes of trolling, I wouldn't delete it.

In general, I like to think - and I've told members this who have had their posts moderated - that while a particular expression of an idea might break one of our rules, with very few specific exceptions (e.g. illegal acts or sexually explicit conversation), there's a way for the person to express their idea within the bounds of the rules.

And that's the difference here: your post was edited because of the way your idea was expressed (i.e. because it included profanity), but your objection to those other posts seems to be to the ideas contained within them.

When The rules were first rewritten( largely by myself, then a smod) we introduced Rule 3.... largely to give a means of moderating persistent attacks on The likes of LDS and Gays. Very often these posts are couched in terms to get round breaking the other rules. So rule 3 was written to protect such attacked groups from persistent attacks and Bullying.

3. Trolling and Bullying
We recognize three areas of unacceptable trolling (Please note that these apply to PMs, signature lines, frubal comments, and visitor messages as well, if they are reported):
1)posts that are deliberately inflammatory in order to provoke a vehement response from other users.
2)posts that Target a person or group by following them around the forums to attack them. This is Bullying. Deliberately altering the words of another member by intentionally changing the meaning when you use the quote feature is considered a form of bullying. The ONLY acceptable alteration of a quotation from another member is to remove portions that are not relevant or to alter formatting for emphasis.
3)posts that are adjudged to fit the following profile: "While questioning and challenging other beliefs is appropriate in the debates forums, repeated blatant misrepresentation or continual harassment of other beliefs will not be tolerated."

 

[Thief]

It's in a thread around here somewhere...
and I heard about it on Christian radio....

At the UN, there is a push to pass international law...
No one should speak out against Islam.

An international law....to censor.

And who would then be on the 'button'....pointing fingers?

See how it's going?

And eventually that tactic will bleed itself all over our lives....in every way.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

It's in a thread around here somewhere...
and I heard about it on Christian radio....

At the UN, there is a push to pass international law...
No one should speak out against Islam.

An international law....to censor.

And who would then be on the 'button'....pointing fingers?

See how it's going?

And eventually that tactic will bleed itself all over our lives....in every way.

You may have heard it... but it will never happen.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

I get your feelings, A.

I've had my moments, to be honest. Smoke and I have had a handful of conversations about how difficult it can be personally to hear the message over and over and over again.

I don't want to spout empty platitudes here, but it's terribly difficult because it's honest. The worst thing I can do to myself is to live a dishonest and closeted life. If I or other members of the LGBTQ community were to remain closeted, dishonest, and full of self-loathing for who we are, we've lost.

And it isn't because of how other people act or react. It's really about us and how we choose to live every day with courage and integrity as our values dictate.

So, I understand the sentiment. I understand the feelings. If you only knew how my stomach acid has reacted to homophobic and/or misogynist postings (not to mention how I am ruining my kids' lives, my marriage, and my eternal soul)...

Nothing wrong with taking a break. But let's not make it permanent. We NEED voices who will speak up.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Hi, everyone. I am taking a break, and I want to be completely clear that my reason for taking a break this time is that RF is filled with rampant, continuous anti-gay hate speech ...

You and I have clashed (more often than not) but I've never doubted that I was clashing with someone of worth. The forum will be diminished by your absence.

L'shalom,

JS :hug:

 

[Debater Slayer]

I remember a debate about homosexuality that we had earlier, where you called me a "bigot" for my views on homosexuality being immoral. I didn't think it's enough to make either of us leave the forum, though.

I'm sorry to hear that you're leaving, and I never hoped that difference of opinions lead to the forum losing any members, especially ones as frequent as you are.

Hope you come back sometime in the future.

 

[Revoltingest]

I remember a debate about homosexuality that we had earlier, where you called me a "bigot" for my views on homosexuality being immoral. I didn't think it's enough to make either of us leave the forum, though.
I'm sorry to hear that you're leaving, and I never hoped that difference of opinions lead to the forum losing any members, especially ones as frequent as you are.
Hope you come back sometime in the future.

You correctly point out that vitriol is seldom one sided.
We all are offended by other posters at times, & it is our choice how to respond.
To believe I'm right & the other wrong is no excuse to heap abuse.
Let's not become intolerant in pursuit of tolerance.
(That kind of irony isn't entertaining.)

 

[9Westy9]

I remember a debate about homosexuality that we had earlier, where you called me a "bigot" for my views on homosexuality being immoral. I didn't think it's enough to make either of us leave the forum, though.

I'm sorry to hear that you're leaving, and I never hoped that difference of opinions lead to the forum losing any members, especially ones as frequent as you are.

Hope you come back sometime in the future.

Sometimes we need thick skin when debating. I find it easiest to just ignore the ignorance and respond with reason and logic . Then again not much really gets to me. The only time I can remember getting really angry and anyone is when they were sexist to my sister. The things I said must've shocked some church members