Leaving RF

[columbus]

To keep them fearful is to keep them dependent.

Looks to me like Watchtower is afraid of the light.
Tom

 

[Kolibri]

You guys are ridiculous, imagine how Jehovah's Witnesses would be treated in Iran, have you heard of how the Bahai are treated, Kolibri is not making this up, there are definitely places in the world were professing to be a JW can get you locked up.

The world is very much an well-traveled place now. In many seaports there are efforts to reach people from other lands with the good news. And that work has been very successful. However, if I continued speaking with someone that does not already profess Christianity when they went back to India, that would be a problem. If I continued being free with my witnessing to someone that has gone back to Iran or North Korea, or mainland China, I could disturb the safeguards set in place in those locations. People get excited about new things. They usually do not know yet when to be quiet or how to be tactful. Setting off a new preacher of the good news in an area where the work is underground is both harmful to the new student and to others that live in the community that have learned to be discreet.

Edit: a new preacher of the good news [improperly attended to or unattended]. (Will such a one expose others that may try to reach him to teach necessary caution?)

 

[savagewind]

The world is very much an well-traveled place now. In many seaports there are efforts to reach people from other lands with the good news. And that work has been very successful. However, if I continued speaking with someone that does not already profess Christianity when they went back to India, that would be a problem. If I continued being free with my witnessing to someone that has gone back to Iran or North Korea, or mainland China, I could disturb the safeguards set in place in those locations. People get excited about new things. They usually do not know yet when to be quiet or how to be tactful. Setting off a new preacher of the good news in a area where the work is underground is both harmful to the new student and to others that live in the community that have learned to be discreet.

Great! More proof Jesus never commanded the making of disciples. (Kolibri just said that some people should not be made into disciples and that is correct imho.)

 

[Thief]

I light of this article Question Box — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY I will be leaving RF within the next few days. The direction given is put in bold print and the reasons given are solid ones.

I can reason that blocking from sight the posts from those disfellowshipped to protect their social vacuum (so as to not undermine Jehovah's loving discipline for them) as one way to comply w/o leaving RF. (1 Corinthians 5:5; 1 Timothy 1:20) I can also see blocking those determined to destroy my precious faith - especially those that left us because they were 'not of our sort' as a means to that end as well. (1 John 2:19)

However, If I died today, could my tombstone truthfully say:

He did not associate with deceitful men,
And he avoided those who hide what they are.
(Psalms 26:4)

We are reminded at 1 Corinthians 1:26 that among true Christians there are "not many wise by human standards". (footnote) Do I see myself above being duped by someone that sees themselves as the cat in a cat and mouse game? Have I ever felt like someone was stringing me along to see how long they can get me to talk with them when they know it would damage my relationship with Jehovah to do so?

I have also been considering 2 Timothy 2:23-26.

"Further, reject foolish and ignorant debates, knowing that they produce fights. For a slave of the Lord does not need to fight, but needs to be gentle toward all...."

Before considering the linked article I had already decided that I needed to further refine how and where I would post here. Some threads have lived too long and I had a share in keeping them alive.

Where there is no wood, the fire goes out,
And where there is no slanderer, quarreling ceases.
- Proverbs 26:20

[Avoid] the scornful man,
And contention will disappear;
Disputes and insults will cease.
- Proverbs 22:10

What brought me to the conclusion that I need to set a time limit and leave RF instead of just modifying my use of it was the part in the article just prior to the bold printed direction. The RF is not country specific. Can I say I am not seeking out people physically located in countries where online communication is monitored by hostile local authorities? Do I want to be responsible for those hostile authorities to use something I posted to fuel their hatred for Jehovah's pure worship and give them their excuse ramp up their acts of intolerance?

I've posted this in both under Religious Debate for everyone to see today, and in the Jehovah's Witnesses DIR so that it won't disappear quickly as not many new threads are opened there.

You can hide....but you can't run....
This world is filled with denial and convenient discussion.

The scripture you have quoted will be fulfilled.
I believe the angelic sort through the mess as quickly as we die.
If you are allowed to follow them....the rest of this dribble will be left behind.

 

[Revoltingest]

Know that you'll always be welcomed back if things change.

 

[Marisa]

I'm confused. I though the bible says in several places that the faithful will be protected.

 

[Kolibri]

I'm confused. I though the bible says in several places that the faithful will be protected.

Yes, as a nation they will be protected but individual members may die faithfully and be protected in God's memory till the resurrection.

"In fact, all those desiring to live with godly devotion in association with Christ Jesus will be persecuted."
- 2 Timothy 3:12

"Then people will hand you over to tribulation and will kill you, and you will be hated by all the nations on account of my name."
- Matthew 24:9

"Men will expel you from the synagogue. In fact, the hour is coming when everyone that kills you will think he has offered a sacred service to God."
- John 16:2

When the cry of "Peace and Security" is followed by "sudden destruction" it will be time for Christ's true disciples to "stand up straight and lift up [our] heads, because [our] deliverance is getting near." (Luke 21:28) Even so we are told:

Go, my people, enter your inner rooms,
And shut the doors behind you.
Hide yourself for a brief moment
Until the wrath (or "denunciation.") has passed by.
- Isaiah 26:20

Obedience to whatever this divine direction involves will mean our very lives.

 

[Marisa]

Yes, as a nation they will be protected but individual members may die faithfully and be protected in God's memory till the resurrection.

"In fact, all those desiring to live with godly devotion in association with Christ Jesus will be persecuted."
- 2 Timothy 3:12

"Then people will hand you over to tribulation and will kill you, and you will be hated by all the nations on account of my name."
- Matthew 24:9

"Men will expel you from the synagogue. In fact, the hour is coming when everyone that kills you will think he has offered a sacred service to God."
- John 16:2

When the cry of "Peace and Security" is followed by "sudden destruction" it will be time for Christ's true disciples to "stand up straight and lift up [our] head, because [our] deliverance is getting near." (Luke 21:28) Even so we are told:

Go, my people, enter your inner rooms,
And shut the doors behind you.
Hide yourself for a brief moment
Until the wrath (or "denunciation.") has passed by.
- Isaiah 26:20

Obedience to whatever this divine direction involves will mean our very lives.

Well I suppose that's one interpretation. As for myself, I'm always skeptical of those who would say that there is information available which should not be accessed. It seems to me that the church has more to gain from you cloistering yourself away from something you might learn than it has repercussions to fear from something you might teach.

 

[Kolibri]

Well I suppose that's one interpretation. As for myself, I'm always skeptical of those who would say that there is information available which should not be accessed. It seems to me that the church has more to gain from you cloistering yourself away from something you might learn than it has repercussions to fear from something you might teach.

I suppose it has to do with the intent and the direction of the information flow. Lets take this a little farther. Suppose I witnessed to someone that lives in a land where Jehovah's Witnesses are under ban while they are visiting the United States. Am I going to hear something I should not hear while they are in my own country of residence? No. Information exchange between myself and this individual is completely legal and unprosecuted where I live.

Now lets say they go back to their home country. There are no Kingdom Halls (buildings dedicated as houses of worship by Jehovah's Witnesses). The work is underground. Suppose now a local brother has arranged to contact this individual to cultivate interest, and the interested person e-mails me that brother's name or other identifying information. Now through data mining for specific words common to our religious vocabulary, the government gets that particular e-mail flagged for scrutiny. Now the government may have learned something about the local brothers it did not know before and may have a new target of focus.

Did I learn anything I was not supposed to? No. Did the interested person? No. Did a mal-intended third party learn something? Yes.

 

[savagewind]

I suppose it has to do with the intent and the direction of the information flow. Lets take this a little farther. Suppose I witnessed to someone that lives in a land where Jehovah's Witnesses are under ban while they are visiting the United States. Am I going to hear something I should not hear while they are in my own country of residence? No. Information exchange between myself and this individual is completely legal and unprosecuted where I live.

Now lets say they go back to their home country. There are no Kingdom Halls (buildings dedicated as houses of worship by Jehovah's Witnesses). The work is underground. Suppose now a local brother has arranged to contact this individual to cultivate interest, and the interested person e-mails me that brother's name or other identifying information? Now through data mining for specific words common to our religious vocabulary, the government gets that particular e-mail flagged for scrutiny. Now a government may have learned something about the local brothers it did not know before and may have a new target of focus.

Did I learn anything I was not supposed to? No. Did the interested person? No. Did a mal-intended third party learn something? Yes.

You are saying the Jehovah's Witness "good news" must be kept secret from some people because why? Matthew 10:28 I hear you say the Watchtower information is dangerous and I agree with you!

 

[savagewind]

According to The Watchtower, it is righteous to put a life in danger for the furtherance of the good news of the Watchtower but it is wrong to put a life in danger if it means putting the Watchtower agenda in danger. Revelation 13:11 for the two horns. Two ways, two horns.

 

[Marisa]

I suppose it has to do with the intent and the direction of the information flow. Lets take this a little farther. Suppose I witnessed to someone that lives in a land where Jehovah's Witnesses are under ban while they are visiting the United States. Am I going to hear something I should not hear while they are in my own country of residence? No. Information exchange between myself and this individual is completely legal and unprosecuted where I live.

Now lets say they go back to their home country. There are no Kingdom Halls (buildings dedicated as houses of worship by Jehovah's Witnesses). The work is underground. Suppose now a local brother has arranged to contact this individual to cultivate interest, and the interested person e-mails me that brother's name or other identifying information. Now through data mining for specific words common to our religious vocabulary, the government gets that particular e-mail flagged for scrutiny. Now the government may have learned something about the local brothers it did not know before and may have a new target of focus.

Did I learn anything I was not supposed to? No. Did the interested person? No. Did a mal-intended third party learn something? Yes.

Personally, I don't think they fear you hearing anything from other JW's. Religion is on the decline in many parts of the world. It's been suggested that the Internet may well prove to be the death of religion. I don't doubt that many religions find themselves in Self defense territory. I think the JWs have nothing to fear in you though. You seem well insulated from anything that might make you question.

 

[Katzpur]

So are you saying, Kolibri, that it is the Watchtower's position that Jehovah's Witnesses should not be involved in forums such as RF? That's what I got out the article.

(By the way, I'll miss you. I never found you overbearing and I always enjoyed our conversations.)

 

[Kolibri]

You seem well insulated from anything that might make you question.

lol.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To me the article I linked in the OP is telling me there have been difficulties experienced as mal-intended parties have already gotten their hands on and acted on information that put my brothers at risk via incautious internet usage. We have life stories and experiences of brothers that have lived under ban after the ban had been lifted. Gestapo-like activities and Machiavellism have not died out as governmental pastimes. We should not make it easy for them to harm our family.

 

[Kolibri]

So are you saying, Kolibri, that it is the Watchtower's position that Jehovah's Witnesses should not be involved in forums such as RF? That's what I got out the article.

(By the way, I'll miss you. I never found you overbearing and I always enjoyed our conversations.)

The article was take from one of our in-house journals that is only 4-8 pages long. The July 2015 "Our Kingdom Ministry" to be exact. This leaflet used to be branch specific and is used weekly to provide a unified program for one of our weekly meetings.

As I read the article, I understand the scripturally-based admonition to beware of those that can easily hide who they are. While taking that into consideration, my conclusion has been that I can simply block certain posters and maintain a clear conscience. However, I have repetitively found myself needed to give RF a break because I was getting too involved in the debates and seeing myself displaying traits not in harmony with Galatians 5:22-23. I have also been bothered by others that claim to be Jehovah's Witnesses who have either been outright inflammatory in all their posts, or have been led along a "merry" chase by entertaining the 2 groups of people we most certainly should avoid contact with - even after being informed privately of what is what.

Had the article stopped there, I could have rinsed and repeated my on-again, off-again use of RF. At least until it became abundantly clear that I had been leaning on my own understanding that judicious use of the block feature of RF is enough for me to be heeding the counsel modestly. (Proverbs 3:5)

However I cannot get around the article title clause "with strangers living in another country." Following the italics parts of the final paragraph of the article I've chosen to set a time limit to say goodbye and relate my thought process openly. I have not set a strict date but I do expect my presence here to last less than a week.

I do find it ironic though that the people that seem to care about me as an individual are the ones that are not trying to hold me here by debate. You have been appreciated too Katzpur.

 

[Flankerl]

How about a compromise, you stop coming to my door and you can keep doing your stuff on the internet?

 

[JayJayDee]

The direction in bold was regarding the physical location of the person I am witnessing too in relation to myself. I can just as easily come across the same information from people physically located within my own country of residence if I chose too.

I find this to be not a matter of what is a huge problem now as a problem regarding what is soon to be.

We know that soon people will get swept away in believing a significant cry of "Peace and Security" and that shortly after the world's governments will turn on organized religion so intensely and completely that it will seem as if "no flesh will be saved." (1 Thessalonians 5:1-5; Matthew 24:21-22; Revelations 18:21-23) The scene of this world is soon to change.

I am not responding out of dread, but out of faith. The direction is made to protect the interests of my brothers and sisters that live in other lands. I find that request reasonable.

Yes, I also see this as a response to what is to come. The reasons are real and I will join my brother in saying farewell to RF. Being obedient to the direction of those taking the lead, is a Christian obligation. (Heb 13:7, 17)

 

[Baladas]

I find this very confusing, and I do think that it is an unfounded fear in the majority of situations.
Regardless, I respect your decision Kolibri (and you decision as well JayJayDee).

Peace to you, you will be missed.

 

[Kolibri]

I find this very confusing, and I do think that it is an unfounded fear in the majority of situations.
Regardless, I respect your decision Kolibri (and you decision as well JayJayDee).

Peace to you, you will be missed.

There are many, many avenues of recommended ways of reaching people with "the good news of the kingdom". Besides the door-to-door canvasing there is airport witnessing, harbor witnessing, street witnessing, some of this is done with eye catching carts. Some are involved in group bible studies in nursing homes. Others respond to requests made by prison inmates. There is also letter writing or telephone witnessing - especially to those that live behind gated communities or are consistently not at home. Often there are foreign language communities within our locale including those limited to braille or using sign language to communicate.

There is plenty to keep us busy. For some of us the have been posting in these types of forums, our real-life situations have been somewhat limited. Both JayJayDee and myself are caregivers. We have a lot of time on our hands where we are only busy being available for the needs of those we care for. We want to speak about our hope, and it has been much easier for me to comment and respond here than it has been to organize myself to write letters and make phone calls. Being challenged here in some regards has also helped me do deeper research into how to explain why I believe as I do - the evidence that convinces me that what i have is based on reality.

So while this will be a change, it will cause me to break out of my laziness and working more closely with those who can preach extensively locally. I will suffer no loss by following direction. You may see me in and out of threads still for a few more days. I've set Friday as my cut-off date.

 

[Baladas]

There are many, many avenues of recommended ways of reaching people with "the good news of the kingdom". Besides the door-to-door canvasing there is airport witnessing, harbor witnessing, street witnessing, some of this is done with eye catching carts. Some are involved in group bible studies in nursing homes. Others respond to requests made by prison inmates. There is also letter writing or telephone witnessing - especially to those that live behind gated communities or are consistently not at home. Often there are foreign language communities within our locale including those limited to braille or using sign language to communicate.

There is plenty to keep us busy. For some of us the have been posting in these types of forums, our real-life situations have been somewhat limited. Both JayJayDee and myself are caregivers. We have a lot of time on our hands where we are only busy being available for the needs of those we care for. We want to speak about our hope, and it has been much easier for me to comment and respond here than it has been to organize myself to write letters and make phone calls. Being challenged here in some regards has also helped me do deeper research into how to explain why I believe as I do - the evidence that convinces me that what i have is based on reality.

So while this will be a change, it will cause me to break out of my laziness and working more closely with those who can preach extensively locally. I will suffer no loss by following direction. You may see me in and out of threads still for a few more days. I've set Friday as my cut-off date.

Caregiving is a noble profession. I did it for myself for about a year in my late teens.
It is very difficult, and I commend you both for choosing it.

I wish the best to you.