Lebanon's "Act of War"

[Scarlett Wampus]

... and I sincerely hope that the irresponsible, antisemitic lunatics who instigated it suffer a crushing and humiliating defeat.

I'm sure those lunatics sincerely hope for Israel to suffer a crushing defeat also. Perhaps imagining it helps them fall asleep, a brief escapist fantasy that releases them from the incessent frustrations of their humiliation, fury and pain demanding vengeance. Cut off their head and it will poison the ground while two spring back in place. Cut off many heads and the ground is so poisoned it becomes a misery to live on. Fury and pain and misery just swirling around pulling more and more people into it like some hellish vortex. Lunacy indeed, and so very sad.

 

[Fluffy]

But isn't that the problem? Why are we expecting more out of Israel than we do Syria, Lebanon, Iran, and the Palestinians?

Because these other places have, to varying degrees, significantly more terrorists than Israel does. Every time Israel causes collateral damage, this strengthens the terrorists' views and converts more of the normal people in those countries to the terrorists' cause.

So therefore there are two reasons to expect more from Israel:
1) They have more power to carry out such actions due to their greater self interest in doing so and for monetary reasons.
2) Reperations to those who suffer as a consequence of damage caused by Israel will go much further if given by Israel as opposed to if they are given by the respective Middle Eastern government. If the average people start recieving money, food, medical supplies and education from Israel as opposed to their government then they will have more of a reason to oppose terrorism... and this will give their government more of a reason to oppose terrorism.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I'm sure those lunatics sincerely hope for Israel to suffer a crushing defeat also.

No, they hope for, and work for, the final solution of Israel's eradication. To blur that fact with insipid psycho-babble is, in my opinion, to be complicit. That is your choice, but be very, very clear - if there is a 2nd Shoah, it will be enormously costly to those who seek to create, promote, or allow it.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Saudi Arabia criticizes Hizbullah​

In a significant move, Saudi Arabia, the Arab world's political heavyweight and economic powerhouse, accused Hizbullah guerrillas - without naming them - of "uncalculated adventures" that could precipitate a new Middle East crisis.

A Saudi official quoted by the state Saudi Press Agency said the Lebanese Hizbullah's brazen capture of two Israeli soldiers was not legitimate.

The kingdom "clearly announces that there has to be a differentiation between legitimate resistance (to Israel) and uncalculated adventures."

The Saudi official said Hizbullah's actions could lead to "an extremely serious situation which could subject all Arab nations and its achievements to destruction."

"The kingdom sees that it is time for those elements to alone shoulder the full responsibility for this irresponsible behavior and that the burden of ending the crisis falls on them alone."

Saudi Arabia's comments on the crisis came after most moderate Arab governments reacted with relative restraint to Israel's offensive in Lebanon, condemning attacks on civilians and infrastructure but also implicitly criticizing Hizbullah.

Exactly. :clap

 

[Deut 13:1]

Now I would like to see Israel all ready to send in aid to those who are suffering to show that they really are simply trying to defend themselves and any suffering they do cause is an unfortunate but necessary step in that defence. Especially since they have prevented this from coming in by plane.

It's our job to send aid to people who want us destroyed? No thanks. We did our steps by pulling out of southern lebanon in 2000, pulling completly out of the gaza strip and look what the people do, they use the gaza strip to fire rockets at israeli citizens. The only compromise that is acceptable to arabs is if Israel is destroyed. I have family in Israel, Israel will do what it must to survive.

 

[kai]

ooh...this is my first post for a long time

hi jewscout....i see u decided to be jewish.....good luck anyway..

about ur post, it makes me really wonder how u people got the idea that Israel is defending its people rather than invading a country!!

It's obviously a war, a clear war declared for no sensible reason...Israel was just waiting for any flame to start the whole fire...

Im not shy to say that im wz Hizbullah, and im not kiddin when i say that almost all the arabado agree wz them...

Hizbullah is now being the only force that is defending the Lebanon land...Imagine if Hizbullah wasnt there, Lebanon would be one of the Israelian lands simply, and after 50 years lebanon people who will be trying to defend their lands will gonna be terrorists!!

i got really nervous when i read than half million israelian people are sleeping out of their homes tonight....and that is supposed to bother me?!!...ofcourse no!
you know why?....it's not cuz im a terrorist, or that i hate jews, no, but because there is a complete nation living in the streets and in tents for more than half a century, and that seemd to be alright, while when it came to israelians, Bush must say his "brave" words that (as usuall), arabs are terrorists!!

we are sick of this....being hit and bombed every day, tens of people dieing, children, women, old people, no matter, we are all terrosrists!!!
this is terrorism, what Israel doin there..

today, i read about a whole family killed under the last strike of Israel in Gaza, a family of 9 people containing children and women, and as usual Israelian government comented that that was selfdefending...25 palastenian citizens were killed today only due to the Israelian attack....and that is everyday's scenario....

Can anybody explain why is that happening?!!
and please try to find another sensible expresion rather than "defending itself"...

i wonder more and more that our right to defend ourselves is forbidden, and we are supposed to shut up and keep watching scilentley while f-16 s are hitting our people!!

anyway....this is a war, that israel can only stop it now....it's uneven to compare old few missiles with high developled air forces that are isolating a whole country right now, for no reason!!

sure i will explain it to you .Hezbollah has attacked the Israeli army they are responding .
Hamas has attacked Israel they are responding

Both these organisations are pulling the arabs into yet another conflageration with Israel
Thats it in a nut shell

 

[greatcalgarian]

Exactly. :clap

What do you expect Saudi Arabia to do?

Send some oil money to them and congratulate them on their successful mission of kidnapping two Israeli soldiers for the purpose of exchange of hundreds of prisoners?

Why did Osama bin Ladin left Saudi and went to Afghanistan?

It is because Saudi is just the puppet of USA, and USA is under strong influence by Israel.:yes:

 

[kai]

What do you expect Saudi Arabia to do?

Send some oil money to them and congratulate them on their successful mission of kidnapping two Israeli soldiers for the purpose of exchange of hundreds of prisoners?
Maybe thats what you would expect them to do
Why did Osama bin Ladin left Saudi and went to Afghanistan?
So he could live his little rich boy dream of living the life of a freebooting adventuring mercenary

It is because Saudi is just the puppet of USA, and USA is under strong influence by Israel.:yes:

Americas fault again why didnt i see that!

 

[angellous_evangellous]

... and I sincerely hope that the irresponsible, antisemitic lunatics who instigated it suffer a crushing and humiliating defeat.

Well done.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Saudi Arabia criticizes Hizbullah​

"The kingdom sees that it is time for those elements to alone shoulder the full responsibility for this irresponsible behavior and that the burden of ending the crisis falls on them alone."

What do you expect Saudi Arabia to do? ... Why did Osama bin Ladin left Saudi and went to Afghanistan?

Excellent, greatcalgarian, this is, indeed, the choice - responsible Arab leadership or al-Qaeda and its apologists.

 

[Scarlett Wampus]

No, they hope for, and work for, the final solution of Israel's eradication. To blur that fact with insipid psycho-babble is, in my opinion, to be complicit. That is your choice, but be very, very clear - if there is a 2nd Shoah, it will be enormously costly to those who seek to create, promote, or allow it.

To be complicit... JS it was your choice to interpret in that manner!

I have no doubt that many wish for the eradication of Israel and view this to be a most grievous desire. It is only capable of bringing greater suffering. As a quasi-Buddhist I oppose any agenda that I view as contributing to that. Where I feel personally responsible is in not having done so more actively in the past. I feel that the International community as a whole has failed Israel and the Middle East terribly. There is much we could have done to ease tensions and did not.

 

[jewscout]

hi jewscout....i see u decided to be jewish.....good luck anyway..

why? should i have been something else??? what part of the handle "jewscout" made you think i was throwing my hat in w/ any other people?

about ur post, it makes me really wonder how u people got the idea that Israel is defending its people rather than invading a country!!

what?

It's obviously a war, a clear war declared for no sensible reason...

except for, of course, kidnapping people for no good reason....

Im not shy to say that im wz Hizbullah, and im not kiddin when i say that almost all the arabado agree wz them...

that's fine by me...

Hizbullah is now being the only force that is defending the Lebanon land...Imagine if Hizbullah wasnt there

.......then there wouldn't be people dying right now?? :sarcastic

i got really nervous when i read than half million israelian people are sleeping out of their homes tonight....and that is supposed to bother me?!!...ofcourse no!
you know why?....it's not cuz im a terrorist, or that i hate jews, no, but because there is a complete nation living in the streets and in tents for more than half a century, and that seemd to be alright, while when it came to israelians, Bush must say his "brave" words that (as usuall), arabs are terrorists!!

and yet the conditions of the Palestinian people are as much, if not more, the fault of the PA leadership and the leadership of the Arab world who have time and time again done nothing to improve the situation...

we are sick of this....being hit and bombed every day, tens of people dieing, children, women, old people, no matter, we are all terrosrists!!!

wow, u summed up the way Israel feels too!

Can anybody explain why is that happening?!!

because Hamas and groups like them use civilians as human shields and then parade the bodies out and scream for the blood of jews.

i wonder more and more that our right to defend ourselves is forbidden, and we are supposed to shut up and keep watching scilentley while f-16 s are hitting our people!!

that's pretty much the way Israel feels about Kassam rockets and suicide bombers...

anyway....this is a war, that israel can only stop it now....it's uneven to compare old few missiles with high developled air forces that are isolating a whole country right now, for no reason!!

or Hezbollah can listen to the leaders in Syria and Saudi Arabia and stop this pointless fighting that's just going to suck the Middle East into a war the Arab nations can't win...because...whether anyone here wants to believe it or not...Israel is being restrained in their attacks...

the full warchest of Israel has yet to be opened.

I pray that it won't have to be...

 

[BUDDY]

about ur post, it makes me really wonder how u people got the idea that Israel is defending its people rather than invading a country!!

Easy. Israel was attacked, was sick of it, and starting retaliating against those that are attacking her, and they are located in souther Lebanon. What is so hard about that?

It's obviously a war, a clear war declared for no sensible reason...Israel was just waiting for any flame to start the whole fire...

Yes, Israel declared war, and had any other countrie been in the same shoes, war would have been declared long ago. It only took one terrorist attack on American soil for America to declare war, but Israel has been putting up with this non-stop for thirty plus years. Incredible restraint, and I am impressed.

Im not shy to say that im wz Hizbullah, and im not kiddin when i say that almost all the arabado agree wz them...

Great, then they are all as crazy as you?

Hizbullah is now being the only force that is defending the Lebanon land...Imagine if Hizbullah wasnt there, Lebanon would be one of the Israelian lands simply, and after 50 years lebanon people who will be trying to defend their lands will gonna be terrorists!!

If Israel wanted to keep and hold Lebanon, they could have done so long ago. Hezbollah is a terrorist organization and nothing more. They are not defenders, they are attackers. Over and over again they have been the aggressors.

i got really nervous when i read than half million israelian people are sleeping out of their homes tonight....and that is supposed to bother me?!!...ofcourse no!
you know why?....it's not cuz im a terrorist, or that i hate jews, no, but because there is a complete nation living in the streets and in tents for more than half a century, and that seemd to be alright, while when it came to israelians, Bush must say his "brave" words that (as usuall), arabs are terrorists!!

You would think that after fifty years they would have been able to find somewhere else to live.

we are sick of this....being hit and bombed every day, tens of people dieing, children, women, old people, no matter, we are all terrosrists!!!
this is terrorism, what Israel doin there..

Are you being bombed in Egypt right now? Or was that only after you decided to attack Israel and got your butts handed to you? As a member of hezbollah, yes you are a terrorist. Guilt by association.

today, i read about a whole family killed under the last strike of Israel in Gaza, a family of 9 people containing children and women, and as usual Israelian government comented that that was selfdefending...25 palastenian citizens were killed today only due to the Israelian attack....and that is everyday's scenario....

Accidental civilian casualties are sad during military operations, yes. Civilian casualties due to targeting by terrorists is horrifying, which is what hezbollah and hamas are guilty of.

Can anybody explain why is that happening?!!
and please try to find another sensible expresion rather than "defending itself"...

Yeah, I just told you, Israel was attacked.

i wonder more and more that our right to defend ourselves is forbidden, and we are supposed to shut up and keep watching scilentley while f-16 s are hitting our people!!

If Lebanon was truely interested in keeping safe, then they would have done something about keeping hezbollah from conducting terrorist activities against Israel. But they have given Israel no choice in the matter.

anyway....this is a war, that israel can only stop it now....it's uneven to compare old few missiles with high developled air forces that are isolating a whole country right now, for no reason!!

You know, I was just wondering how so many people could be so ignorant of recent Middle East history. I think it is a combination of two things. I think that you believe in an entitlement and that you are very ignorant. Look into some reputable history of the region and you will see that Israel has been the most attacked and invaded sovereign nation in the last fifty years. Start there, be honest with yourself, and you will see that Israel has a right to do what they are doing now.

 

[michel]

ooh...this is my first post for a long time
hi jewscout....i see u decided to be jewish.....good luck anyway..
about ur post, it makes me really wonder how u people got the idea that Israel is defending its people rather than invading a country!!
It's obviously a war, a clear war declared for no sensible reason...Israel was just waiting for any flame to start the whole fire...
Im not shy to say that im wz Hizbullah, and im not kiddin when i say that almost all the arabado agree wz them...
Hizbullah is now being the only force that is defending the Lebanon land...Imagine if Hizbullah wasnt there, Lebanon would be one of the Israelian lands simply, and after 50 years lebanon people who will be trying to defend their lands will gonna be terrorists!!
i got really nervous when i read than half million israelian people are sleeping out of their homes tonight....and that is supposed to bother me?!!...ofcourse no!
you know why?....it's not cuz im a terrorist, or that i hate jews, no, but because there is a complete nation living in the streets and in tents for more than half a century, and that seemd to be alright, while when it came to israelians, Bush must say his "brave" words that (as usuall), arabs are terrorists!!
we are sick of this....being hit and bombed every day, tens of people dieing, children, women, old people, no matter, we are all terrosrists!!!
this is terrorism, what Israel doin there..
today, i read about a whole family killed under the last strike of Israel in Gaza, a family of 9 people containing children and women, and as usual Israelian government comented that that was selfdefending...25 palastenian citizens were killed today only due to the Israelian attack....and that is everyday's scenario....
Can anybody explain why is that happening?!!
and please try to find another sensible expresion rather than "defending itself"...
i wonder more and more that our right to defend ourselves is forbidden, and we are supposed to shut up and keep watching scilentley while f-16 s are hitting our people!!
anyway....this is a war, that israel can only stop it now....it's uneven to compare old few missiles with high developled air forces that are isolating a whole country right now, for no reason!!

about ur post, it makes me really wonder how u people got the idea that Israel is defending its people rather than invading a country!!

Try reading the news (unbiassed, if possible).

It's obviously a war, a clear war declared for no sensible reason...Israel was just waiting for any flame to start the whole fire...

for no sensible reason ????? Oh, err right.....

Do you know, I am sorry to say I gave up after that; I saw some paintwork drying.....it was so interesting.:shout

 

[almifkhar]

michael

who says bbc is unbiased?

 

[michel]

michael

who says bbc is unbiased?

I don't know, Almifkhar, who does ?

 

[almifkhar]

well according to bbc's royal charter they say, "their key objective is to collect news and information in any part of the world and in any mannar that may be thought fit."

translation: they will tell you what they want you to hear. this is called by the layman propaganda.

 

[croak]

Israel is being restrained in their attacks...

the full warchest of Israel has yet to be opened.

Unless I'm mistaken, Israel once said it could destroy (possibly another word) the whole Middle East in 48 hours. Blame my bad memory if they didn't. I know somebody did.

And everyone knows that Israel's barely done anything yet. Doesn't mean they won't. And I, for one, am worried. Unlike all of you, I'm in Lebanon. And we don't have bomb shelters here; at least, none that I know of.


Just answer me this: does Lebanon as a whole have to pay for what Hizbullah did? It seems everyone agrees that it does.

So, if my house is bombed by Israelis and I'm one of the growing numbers of dead people, it seems no one will care. If Hizbullah decides to fire beside my house, I can't do anything. It's not as if I can scare them off or shoot them. But I get to pay the price. Lovely.


Has anyone realized that not one Hizbullah person has been killed? Maybe after I type this, there will be. But up till now, 61 civilians and 2 Lebanese soldiers have been killed.



And has it occured to anyone that Israel might bomb a house in which the hostages are being kept, and thus kill their own soldiers?


I'm ranting on and on and on...

If Lebanon was truely interested in keeping safe, then they would have done something about keeping hezbollah from conducting terrorist activities against Israel.

You think we haven't tried to do anything? You think it's a simple matter of telling Hizbullah to stop? It might not have occurred to anyone, but we can return to a civil war at anytime. The country is already divided; we don't want to widen the crack.

because Hamas and groups like them use civilians as human shields and then parade the bodies out and scream for the blood of jews.

Israel could just have easily have not bombed them. But if they can hit 'terrorists', civilians don't seem to matter anymore.

And why hasn't Israel hit Hizbullah training camps and the like? Sure, they hit the HQ and Nasrallah's apartment, but what else?


I wonder why I bother at all.

 

[Ðanisty]

It's not an idea,,, it's a fact, at least from my point of view.

It's a fact from your point of view? That's not even possible. That makes it an opinion.

Analysts say there are two possible reasons and they are not mutually exclusive. Israel wants to keep Iranian arms from getting in and Israeli captives from being flown out.

That makes perfect sense to me.

Because these other places have, to varying degrees, significantly more terrorists than Israel does. Every time Israel causes collateral damage, this strengthens the terrorists' views and converts more of the normal people in those countries to the terrorists' cause.

So therefore there are two reasons to expect more from Israel:
1) They have more power to carry out such actions due to their greater self interest in doing so and for monetary reasons.
2) Reperations to those who suffer as a consequence of damage caused by Israel will go much further if given by Israel as opposed to if they are given by the respective Middle Eastern government. If the average people start recieving money, food, medical supplies and education from Israel as opposed to their government then they will have more of a reason to oppose terrorism... and this will give their government more of a reason to oppose terrorism.

Honestly, Fluffy, I don't think this will work at all, but then I'm not an optimist. If I were Israeli, I'd be concerned that all the money for reperations and charity was being poured into the terrorist organizations as soon as it reached these other countries. I would never expect average people to see that money.

Just answer me this: does Lebanon as a whole have to pay for what Hizbullah did? It seems everyone agrees that it does.

Do you want the short answer or the long answer? In my opinion, yes, Lebanon is responsible for what Hezbollah has done because they haven't taken the steps necessary to prevent it. That doesn't mean that I think average citizens should have to pay for what Hezbollah has done. I don't know any average Lebanese citizens so I can't really say. I don't know how involved average Lebanese citizens are in promoting terrorism, etc. It is not Israel that has put people like yourself in danger. It is your country that has put you in danger by not taking a stand against this kind of terrorism.

So, if my house is bombed by Israelis and I'm one of the growing numbers of dead people, it seems no one will care. If Hizbullah decides to fire beside my house, I can't do anything. It's not as if I can scare them off or shoot them. But I get to pay the price. Lovely.

I will care as much as I care about everyone else on this forum. I certainly hope you aren't harmed in all of this.

And has it occured to anyone that Israel might bomb a house in which the hostages are being kept, and thus kill their own soldiers?

Sadly, I think Israel has reached a point where they can accept this. Inaction now would mean living in fear and I don't believe that a government should ever allow it's citizens to live in fear. I don't think your government should have allowed that for your people either.

 

[Fluffy]

Honestly, Fluffy, I don't think this will work at all, but then I'm not an optimist. If I were Israeli, I'd be concerned that all the money for reperations and charity was being poured into the terrorist organizations as soon as it reached these other countries. I would never expect average people to see that money.

I am suggesting that this work be carried our whilst Israel occupies these other countries so that they can be certain it does not fall into the hands of terrorist organisations.