Lebanon's "Act of War"

[sindbad5]

No its far from impossible none of thease things are impossible

so, why you think peace is far reaching ?

 

[Scarlett Wampus]

so, why you think peace is far reaching ?

It would be possible if there were a resolute, engaged and compassionate will to peace. To make that our will is what we can do as individuals.

 

[michel]

I'm just wondering. Why did Israel invade lebanon in 1955? Why did Israel invade Lebanon in 1972? Why did Israel invade lebanon in 1982? Hizbulla did not exist until 1986.

I thought you might like to see http://www.historyguy.com/arab_israeli_wars.html

[SIZE=-1]Israeli War of Independence/ "al-Nakba" (The Disaster) (1948-1949)--Upon independence, Israel was invaded by the armies of six Arab nations: Egypt, Syria, Transjordan (later Jordan), Lebanon, Iraq and Saudi Arabia. In addition, local Arab Palestinian forces also fought the Jewish Israelis.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]Qibya Raid (October, 1951)—Israeli troops, led by Major [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Ariel Sharon[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] (Israeli Prime Minister 2001-) destroyed dozens of buildings in the West Bank (Jordan) town of Qibya. Civilian deaths reached 69.[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]Egyptian Seizure of the Israeli ship Bat Galim (Summer, 1954)—Egypt seized the Israeli ship Bat Galim as it attempted to enter the Suez Canal. According to various international agreements, the Suez Canal is supposed to be accessible to ships of all nations. This provoked worsening tensions between Israel and Egypt.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Gaza Raid (Feb. 28, 1955)—Israeli forces conducted a raid, a response to repeated guerrilla attacks and the seizure of an Israeli ship by Egypt, resulted in the deaths of 51 Egyptian soldiers and 8 Israeli troops. This raid was the largest of its kind against Arab forces since the end of the First Arab-Israeli War in 1949.[/SIZE]

​

[SIZE=-1]The Sinai War[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] (1956) [Also known as the Suez War]--The invasion and temporary conquest of Egypt's Sinai Peninsula by Israel, while France and Great Britain seized the Suez Canal.[/SIZE]


[SIZE=-1]Palestinian-Israeli Conflict (1960-Present)--Israel faced guerrilla and terrorist warfare from several Palestinian armies, most of whom united under the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), led by Yassir Arafat. Current fighting involves Israel against more religiously militant groups such as Hamas and Islamic Jihad, as well as against Arafat's Palestinian Authority. (This includes the Palestinian guerrilla warfare against Israel from the 1960's, original Intifada (1988-1992) and the current "Al-Aqsa" Intifada (2000-Present), and the West Bank (2004) and Gaza Invasions (2006) by Israel and the Palestinian suicide and rocket attacks which prompted those invasions. (See below.)[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]First al-Fatah (PLO) Raid (Dec. 31, 1964)—Yassir Arafat’s al-Fatah faction of the Palestine Liberation Organization conducted its first raid into Israel from Lebanon.[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]Israeli-Syrian Border and Air Battle (Nov. 13, 1964)—Israel and Syria both claimed sovereignty over several Demilitarized Zones along their border. These Zones were set up as part of the cease-fire ending the First Arab-Israeli War. Israel attempted to farm the land in these Zones, while Syria developed a project to divert water from the Jordan River, which Israel shared with both Syria and Jordan. Syrian forces often fired on Israeli tractors attempting to farm the Zones, while Israel looked for ways to interrupt the Syrian diversion project. On Nov. 13, 1964, Syrian forces stationed on the top of the Golan Heights, a plateau overlooking Israeli territory in the Jordan River valley, fired on Israeli tractors. Israeli forces returned fire. Syrian artillery then targeted Israeli civilian villages. Israel responded with air attacks on Syrian forces. This battle resulted in 4 Israeli dead and 9 wounded. Syrian losses included two tanks and machines involved in the diversion project. One result of this clash was Syria’s accelerated acquisition of more and better Soviet-made fighter planes. (Oren, 2001). [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]West Bank Raids (May 1965)—After Palestinian guerrilla raids resulting in the deaths of 6 Israelis, the Israeli military conducted raids on the West Bank towns of Qalqilya, Shuna and Jenin.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]1966—Israel reported 93 incidents along its borders.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]West Bank Raid (April 30 1966)—Israeli forces destroyed over two dozen houses in the West Bank town of Rafat, killing 11 civilians. This attack was in response to Palestinian raids on Israel. Most of these attacks on Israel[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]West Bank Raids (1966)—Israeli forces raided the Hebron area of the West Bank. These raids resulted in 8 civilian deaths and firefights with the Jordanian Army.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Israeli-Syrian Border Battles (Summer, 1966)—Continued artillery and tank duels along the Golan Heights front led to :[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Israeli-Syrian Air Battle (July 7, 1966)—Responding to the continued fighting along the border, Israeli planes attacked Syrian forces, resulting in the loss of one Syrian MiG fighter plane.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Israeli-Syrian Air/Sea Battle (Aug. 15, 1966)—After an Israeli patrol boat ran aground on the eastern shore of the Sea of Galilee (according to the 1949 cease-fire agreement, Israeli forces were not supposed to approach within 250 meters of the eastern shore, which was a Demilitarized Zone), Syrian planes attacked it. Israel responded, shooting down two MiG planes.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Samu Raid (West Bank) (November 13, 1966)—Following a land mine explosion which killed three Israeli policemen and wounded one, Israel decided to launch a large retaliatory raid (called Operation Shredder) into the West Bank, to strike at a Palestinian (al-Fatah) guerrilla base near Hebron. Designed to show Israeli military strength, the raiding force consisted of 10 tanks, forty half-tracks (a troop transportation vehicle) and around 400 soldiers. The force enjoyed air cover from Israeli war planes. This force destroyed a police station at the town of Rujm al-Madfa’ and then moved on to the town of Samu’. As the Israelis demolished houses in Samu’, a small Jordanian force approached and was ambushed by the Israelis. This battle resulted in 15 Jordanian dead and 54 wounded. The leader of the Israeli ambush was killed and 10 of his men wounded. Israeli planes chased off the Jordanian air force, shooting down a Jordanian fighter plane. This raid also resulted in 3 Arab civilian deaths and 96 wounded.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Besides the large numbers of casualties (on both sides) from what was supposed to be a relatively swift and easy raid, Israel suffered diplomatic setbacks. The United States was quite upset over this large attack on one of Washington’s few Arab friends (Jordan’s King Hussein) and at the lack of response to the Syrians, who were the true sponsors of most Palestinian attacks in Israel. Riots broke out in Jordan at the seemingly ineffectual response of the Jordanian military and its apparent inability to protect Palestinian civilians in the West Bank. The Samu raid inflamed Arab public opinion in the Middle East and turned out to be one of the factors leading up to the Six-Day War of 1967.[/SIZE]

​

[SIZE=-1]The Six-Day War (1967)--In a rapid pre-emptive attack, Israel crushed the military forces of Egypt, Jordan and Syria and seized large amounts of land from each. Iraq also participated in the fighting on the Arab side.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]The War of Attrition (1968-1970)--The War of Attrition was a limited border war fought between Egypt and Israel in the aftermath of the Six-Day War. It was initiated by Egypt as a way to recapture the Sinai Peninsula after losing it to Israel in 1967. A cease-fire in 1970 ended the fighting, but left the borders unchanged.[/SIZE]

 

[michel]

Pt 2
[SIZE=-1]The Yom Kippur (Ramadan) War (1973)--In a surprise attack launched on the Jewish Yom Kippur holiday (the dates also fell on the Muslim Ramadan holiday), Egypt and Syria attacked Israel. Despite aid from Iraq, the Arab forces failed to defeat Israel.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Israeli Invasion of Lebanon (1978)--Operation Litani was the official name of Israel's 1978 invasion of Lebanon up to the Litani river. The invasion was a military success, as the Israeli military expelled the PLO from Southern Lebanon, where they had created a de facto state within a state. An international outcry over the invasion forced a partial Israeli retreat and the creation of a United Nations patrolled buffer zone between the Arab guerrillas and the Israeli military. See also [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]The Israeli-Lebanon Conflict (1978-Present)[/SIZE][SIZE=-1].[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]The Osirak Raid (1981)--An Israeli air attack on Iraq's Osirak nuclear reactor.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]The Israeli Invasion of Lebanon (1982-1984)--In response to repeated guerrilla attacks by the PLO, which were launched from South Lebanon, Israel invaded with the intent of destroying Arafat's forces. Syria, which maintained a large army in Lebanon, fought Israel and suffered an embarrassing defeat. See [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]The Israeli-Lebanon Conflict (1978-Present)[/SIZE][SIZE=-1].[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]The Israeli Occupation of South Lebanon (1984-2000)--As they withdrew from most of Lebanon seized in the 1982 invasion, Israel held onto a large part of Southern Lebanon with the aid of the "South Lebanon Army (SLA)," a militia set up and supported by Israel. This occupation was opposed by the PLO and other Palestinian groups as an extension of their long-running conflict with Israel. Also, other militia armies (mostly Lebanese Muslim groups), such as Hezbollah (supported by Iran and Syria), stepped up attacks on the Israeli-occupied region as well as on settlements and military targets in northern Israel. In 2000, Israel withdrew from Lebanon and the SLA disbanded. See [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]The Israeli-Lebanon Conflict (1978-Present)[/SIZE][SIZE=-1].[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]The First Intifada (1987-1993)--Urban uprising against Israeli rule in the West Bank and Gaza. The Oslo Peace Accords end the Intifada and lead to the formation of the Palestinian Authority with PLO Chief Yasser Arafat as the official leader of the Palestininans.[/SIZE]

There's some more if you want to read it.

 

[Radio Frequency X]

lol, great posts michael. You beat me to it.

 

[Drewish Princess]

I can see all the facts are here way to go guys!!!! But let me ask you guys something? Why is it that Israel is the only country that gets gripe for defending herself? What is the goverment just supposed to sit on their hands while my Cousins in Tzvat and my Friends in Haifa get the crap blown out of them? They're are just supposed to stand by while our young men are taken captive one by one? Men who are for the majority are between the ages 18 and 30!!! The fact is all Arab countries that surround Israel are byding their time for her ultimate destruction! They have since the day she was founded!!! Trust me i don't want this anymore than they do AND I'm just as scared as them but MY leaders didn't start this they are just trying to finish it.Baruch Hashem may they succeed without casulaties on either side!

 

[Radio Frequency X]

hehe a Drewish Princess. That's funny, she doesn't look Drewish.

 

[Booko]

I can see all the facts are here way to go guys!!!! But let me ask you guys something? Why is it that Israel is the only country that gets gripe for defending herself?

I'm at a loss to understand why, if Cuba lobbed a missile at us, and the world then criticized us for daring to take out the missile capabilities of Cuba, we would not simply tell the world to do something anatomically creative with itself.

When the IDF pulled out in 2000, part of the deal was that the Lebanese Army was to go into southern Lebanon and secure it so we wouldn't end up with Hezbollah having 10,000+ rockets to lob at Israel.

If I were a Lebanese or Israeli citizen, in danger right now, I'd be asking the world "Where were you in 2000 when the Lebanese army needed support to hold southern Lebanon and prevent these fools from doing what they are now?"

fwiw, I have friends in Haifa right now as well.

 

[kai]

I'm at a loss to understand why, if Cuba lobbed a missile at us, and the world then criticized us for daring to take out the missile capabilities of Cuba, we would not simply tell the world to do something anatomically creative with itself.

When the IDF pulled out in 2000, part of the deal was that the Lebanese Army was to go into southern Lebanon and secure it so we wouldn't end up with Hezbollah having 10,000+ rockets to lob at Israel.

If I were a Lebanese or Israeli citizen, in danger right now, I'd be asking the world "Where were you in 2000 when the Lebanese army needed support to hold southern Lebanon and prevent these fools from doing what they are now?"

fwiw, I have friends in Haifa right now as well.

just who could do anything the UN is a paper tiger , western troops wouldnt be welcome, any ideas couse i havnt

 

[kai]

so, why you think peace is far reaching ?

because in my opinion there are people or organisations who do not want peace. Israel would build a wall around itself and live within it, if they thought that they would be safe.but they would not.

there are Islamic fundamentalists in the middle east which have a power base only because of the presence of israel as an enemy.

there are countries whos leaders only have power because they can invoke the spectre of Israel and the west as enemies of islam.

there are people who will accept nothing short of the total destruction of israel.

the road to peace in palestine died the day Hamas was elected , Hamas demands nothing less than the total destruction of israel.

Hezbollah are strong in Lebenon they demand nothing less than the total destruction of Israel.

Its the palestinians and lebonese who are paying the price now for these people, who have no interest in peace, because in peace there is no need for the likes of Hamas or Hezbollah.

 

[Booko]

it may be that its gone beyond stopping Hezbollah from firing rockets , i hope not but you could see the Israelis mounting large scale operations agianst Hezbollah in lebenon, some of the targets seem questionable untill you imagine a larger operation in the making

I've had the evening and this morning to consider it further, and I think it's still pretty much about the rocket threat. The thing is, you can't really get rid of the threat by just taking out the rockets. You have to disrupt possibilities of resupply (thus the roads, airports and fuel supplies), or the threat will quickly reappear. You have to cut off command and control (this accounts for targeting southern Beirut), and try to take out the leadership.

Some of those targets might seem to be civilian targets, but unfortunately in this sort of non-state actor warfare, there are "dual use" targets, which is what the airport would seem to be. After all, it's through the airport in Beirut that the missiles have come into Lebanon in the first place. It's the only airport large enough to handle the cargo planes, as I understand it. And the gasoline that can go into transport for Lebanese civilians is the same gas that can be used to transport Hezbollah in the middle of this conflict.

This is all standard modern military doctrine, no matter where you go in the world and no matter the regional situation.

OTOH, damned if I can think what military use the Haifa train station has. I wasn't under the impression the IDF was using public train stations for troop transport. Of course, I have no idea what targeting capabilities Hebollah has with a Fajr rocket either. They might be exceptionally bad shots.

As for the IDF, if they haven't had a plan to take out those 10K+ rockets on the shelf for a while, then they are fools. Hm, never known the IDF to be militarily incompetent, though. They do seem to have been looking for an excuse to take care of this problem, for they seem very prepared for such a military operation. Targeting of the sort they've been doing is not something you do in a few minutes or hours, generally.

In the same circumstance, I would think our gov't tragically stupid if we did not work to remove such a threat. Since negotiation seems pointless with a group so driven by hatred, I've no idea what other option is there.

The most unfortunate thing I see at this time is that in 2000 no one propped up the Lebanese army so they could do what they agreed to -- prevent rearming southern Lebanon.

I can only hope that some of the states in the region (Saudi
Arabia, Egypt, and Jordan) can work on Syria to ratchet this down. I have no doubt that if the threat of those rockets is removed, we can pressure Israel to back off also.

I consider it entirely possible at this time that Israel will have to go into Lebanese territory on some scale to remove those rockets. Now that the shooting has started, how could they stop while failing to remove that threat? I don't think it can just be done by air.

And when the IDF removes the rockets and retreats back to their own territory, the rest of us in the world had better be damned ready to do what we should have done the first time: ensure rockets do not return to that area by making sure the Lebanese Army is soon able to protect their own territory and their own people, as they should.

If we do nothing, like we did before, then we have no right to criticize anyone when another mess like inevitably results and more civilians die.

Violence always creeps into a power vacuum. And considering the nature of this region, that will mean non-state actors.

 

[kai]

I've had the evening and this morning to consider it further, and I think it's still pretty much about the rocket threat. The thing is, you can't really get rid of the threat by just taking out the rockets. You have to disrupt possibilities of resupply (thus the roads, airports and fuel supplies), or the threat will quickly reappear. You have to cut off command and control (this accounts for targeting southern Beirut), and try to take out the leadership.

Some of those targets might seem to be civilian targets, but unfortunately in this sort of non-state actor warfare, there are "dual use" targets, which is what the airport would seem to be. After all, it's through the airport in Beirut that the missiles have come into Lebanon in the first place. It's the only airport large enough to handle the cargo planes, as I understand it. And the gasoline that can go into transport for Lebanese civilians is the same gas that can be used to transport Hezbollah in the middle of this conflict.

This is all standard modern military doctrine, no matter where you go in the world and no matter the regional situation.

OTOH, damned if I can think what military use the Haifa train station has. I wasn't under the impression the IDF was using public train stations for troop transport. Of course, I have no idea what targeting capabilities Hebollah has with a Fajr rocket either. They might be exceptionally bad shots.

As for the IDF, if they haven't had a plan to take out those 10K+ rockets on the shelf for a while, then they are fools. Hm, never known the IDF to be militarily incompetent, though. They do seem to have been looking for an excuse to take care of this problem, for they seem very prepared for such a military operation. Targeting of the sort they've been doing is not something you do in a few minutes or hours, generally.

In the same circumstance, I would think our gov't tragically stupid if we did not work to remove such a threat. Since negotiation seems pointless with a group so driven by hatred, I've no idea what other option is there.

The most unfortunate thing I see at this time is that in 2000 no one propped up the Lebanese army so they could do what they agreed to -- prevent rearming southern Lebanon.

I can only hope that some of the states in the region (Saudi
Arabia, Egypt, and Jordan) can work on Syria to ratchet this down. I have no doubt that if the threat of those rockets is removed, we can pressure Israel to back off also.

I consider it entirely possible at this time that Israel will have to go into Lebanese territory on some scale to remove those rockets. Now that the shooting has started, how could they stop while failing to remove that threat? I don't think it can just be done by air.

And when the IDF removes the rockets and retreats back to their own territory, the rest of us in the world had better be damned ready to do what we should have done the first time: ensure rockets do not return to that area by making sure the Lebanese Army is soon able to protect their own territory and their own people, as they should.

If we do nothing, like we did before, then we have no right to criticize anyone when another mess like inevitably results and more civilians die.

Violence always creeps into a power vacuum. And considering the nature of this region, that will mean non-state actors.

i agree booko i just do know who could help the lebenese army the west wont be welcome arab troops may not be acceptable to israel

 

[michel]

because in my opinion there are people or organisations who do not want peace. Israel would build a wall around itself and live within it, if they thought that they would be safe.but they would not.

there are Islamic fundamentalists in the middle east which have a power base only because of the presence of israel as an enemy.

there are countries whos leaders only have power because they can invoke the spectre of Israel and the west as enemies of islam.

there are people who will accept nothing short of the total destruction of israel.

the road to peace in palestine died the day Hamas was elected , Hamas demands nothing less than the total destruction of israel.

Hezbollah are strong in Lebenon they demand nothing less than the total destruction of Israel.

Its the palestinians and lebonese who are paying the price now for these people, who have no interest in peace, because in peace there is no need for the likes of Hamas or Hezbollah.

Unfortunately you are right; for the sake of a minority of trouble makers who wish to see Israel disappear completely, thousands of innocents must suffer.

This is nothing new for the Jewish population.

 

[kai]

Unfortunately you are right; for the sake of a minority of trouble makers who wish to see Israel disappear completely, thousands of innocents must suffer.

This is nothing new for the Jewish population.

unfortunately it is now nothing new to the palestinian and lebenese populations either

 

[Booko]

i tell you what,,, whatsoever the night become long, a dawn eventually come, maybe this generation, maybe the next, i don't know,,,, but sure it'l come.

The dawn will come when everyone living there decides to stop shooting and find a way to live along with each other, because no one is going away.

My ancestors' land was taken away from them also, but no one is going to leave this continent and hand it back to me. My Japanese-descent neighbor's parents had their business destroyed and their assets taken during WW2. No one is going to give him a free business as a replacement for what he should have inherited. My husband's grandparents left their country rather than continue to be in the crossfire of European armies (as Lebanon has been for just as long...millenia). My husband is making no demands on Russia or Germany to give his grandmother's homestead back, for someone else lives there now, and other children were born there and it's their "home" now too.

Everyone, everywhere in the world, has a story about how their ancestors had something taken away, were forced to move, or family members that were killed.

If we all hold on to these things and insist on living in the past, then we, as a race, have nothing left to do but destroy humanity entirely, all in the name of "justice" of course, for none of us have ancestors whose hands were all clean, and all of us come from a lineage where people have been harmed.

Whether anyone likes it or not, Israel is not going away, so the sooner everyone in the region accepts that as a fact and finds a way to honor their ancestors by building up their people again, so much the better.

Is it fair? Maybe not. But whoever it was that told you life was fair was mistaken.

what gaza and what west bank you talk about,,, ahh, you mean the dissected peaces of lands between the zionists settelments and militariy capms and roads?
look, and look carefully to the (islands) where the palestinians live in west bank:
http://www.fmep.org/maps/map_data/settlements/west_bank_hilltop_land.gif

Now there's a map that needs to be looked at.

I think if my countrymen saw that map on the front page of every newspaper, they would have a clearer understanding of what's going on and why the Palestinians are not just sitting down and shutting up meekly. How could they? You can't build an economy when it takes an hour driving around fences and checkpoints to get to your own orchard half a mile away. That just doesn't make any sense.

There cannot be a lasting peace where there is no justice for one party. The Palestinians and the other non-state actors lobbing bombs at Israel and blowing up their civilians need to stop. And Israel has to take its boot off the Palestinian's neck so they can find a way to live with some dignity, as all people should be able to do.

 

[Booko]

really interested? ok,
my solution would be:
1- israel stop bombings in gazza and lebanon.
2- lebanon and palestinian resistance stop fighting.
3- with the help of arabs, europe, usa, russia and china, a total peace talks start between israel and palestinians, syria, lebanon , egypt, and iraq.
4- for palestine, to return gazza and west bank, accept returning palestinian refugees world wide, getting out of east jerusalim, and stop teaching the children how to hate arabs.
5- give Shebiaa village to lebanon, and stop hitting it from now over.
6- retrun the occupied goolan to syria, and stop instigating usa against it.
7- pay compensations and make trials to war criminals who killed thoussands of egyptian POWs during 1967 war, and to the 4 egyptian soldiers killed at borders 1 month ago.
8- israel releases thousands of prisoners, before pushing the resistance to kidnap its soldiers in a try to make a balance.
9- arabs stop invoking allah against israel, and live in peace with thier fellow zionists.

impossible, right? i don't think so,,,, nothing is far from allah, nothing can overcome his will, though some people forget that.

Yes, I think that's a great start. And it's all very possible.

And maybe if nations could act out of human interest before their national self-interest, it would happen.

Eventually it will. I just hope it doesn't take much longer for the people of the world to understand that what happens around the world does affect them, and for governments to act only in accordance with sovereign economic and military interests is, at best, shortsighted.

 

[Booko]

just who could do anything the UN is a paper tiger , western troops wouldnt be welcome, any ideas couse i havnt

That's exactly the problem, isn't it? The blue helmets are no real threat to anyone and no help unless all parties want peace. Well, Hezbollah is not interested in disarming, so there goes that option. Any other nation or nations who have the military capacity to help have a vested interest and so, frankly, cannot be trusted to just disarm the area without making a mess of their own.

That pretty much leaves...no one?

No wonder so many of the Lebanese are trying to get out.

No wonder so many Lebanese got out before years ago, and found a calmer home in Detroit, where my husband is from.

 

[michel]

the truth lies thier,,, inside our hearts and memories, althought the continues trys to make us submit to those zionists,
my nation memory is very strong, 60 years of wars, lies, and deceivings can't even scratch it.

my nation remembers(and she's good at remebmering) Haifa, Akka, al kods (jerusalim), and asskalan, and all the palestinian towns, the train comming from egypt to gazza, tabria and el galil,,,, all these places crafted in the arabic heart although the gigantic propaganda and history cheatings.

they call the legal resistance a terrorism, what a liers
the real terrorists are those zionists who kicked out of europe 60 years ago (haganah gangs, then became israeli defence - offencive- army).
the real terrorists are those who support them with unlimited resources and tens of vetos while they slain arab women and children.

i tell you what,,, whatsoever the night become long, a dawn eventually come, maybe this generation, maybe the next, i don't know,,,, but sure it'l come.


what gaza and what west bank you talk about,,, ahh, you mean the dissected peaces of lands between the zionists settelments and militariy capms and roads?
look, and look carefully to the (islands) where the palestinians live in west bank:
http://www.fmep.org/maps/map_data/settlements/west_bank_hilltop_land.gif


Deut,
could you please take us back in time a little bit earlier than 2002? and i promise i'll look with you

Maybe if you and your people had had to put up with the following..................

http://www.answers.com/topic/timeline-of-jewish-history

I suggest you look at this.

 

[Booko]

i agree booko i just do know who could help the lebenese army the west wont be welcome arab troops may not be acceptable to israel

There was a Western/Middle Eastern coalition to drive Saddam out of Kuwait in '81.

The problem here is, the Middle Eastern nations that could feasibly be involved in such an effort are despotic and/or allies of the U.S.

I wouldn't imagine Syria or Iran would have a place in any such effort, considering they're the ones using Hezbollah as their pawns anyway.

Unless some bright foreign policy analyst somewhere comes up with a reason for Syria or Iran to stop backing Hezbollah. It might be possible with Syria (though not too probable) but I don't think there's much hope with Iran.

Actually, I would expect that because the Sunni-ruled Arab states like Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Jordan fear non-state actors overthrowing *them*, they will and probably already are threatening to isolate Syria, which being ruled by a bunch of Baathist heretics must feel pretty isolated in some ways already.

Doesn't Syria depend on water from out of country? Hm.

This is one of those moments that illustrates the need for an effective global security force directed by a global gov't that is actually neutral. We have nothing like that (yet).

 

[EiNsTeiN]

I didnt move through out the whole thread yet to check other replies, but i really couldnt help it when i read that post, and i have to answer it now...

Easy. Israel was attacked, was sick of it, and starting retaliating against those that are attacking her, and they are located in souther Lebanon. What is so hard about that?

Yes, Israel declared war, and had any other countrie been in the same shoes, war would have been declared long ago. It only took one terrorist attack on American soil for America to declare war, but Israel has been putting up with this non-stop for thirty plus years. Incredible restraint, and I am impressed.

Great, then they are all as crazy as you?

If Israel wanted to keep and hold Lebanon, they could have done so long ago. Hezbollah is a terrorist organization and nothing more. They are not defenders, they are attackers. Over and over again they have been the aggressors.

You would think that after fifty years they would have been able to find somewhere else to live.

Are you being bombed in Egypt right now? Or was that only after you decided to attack Israel and got your butts handed to you? As a member of hezbollah, yes you are a terrorist. Guilt by association.

Accidental civilian casualties are sad during military operations, yes. Civilian casualties due to targeting by terrorists is horrifying, which is what hezbollah and hamas are guilty of.

Yeah, I just told you, Israel was attacked.

If Lebanon was truely interested in keeping safe, then they would have done something about keeping hezbollah from conducting terrorist activities against Israel. But they have given Israel no choice in the matter.

You know, I was just wondering how so many people could be so ignorant of recent Middle East history. I think it is a combination of two things. I think that you believe in an entitlement and that you are very ignorant. Look into some reputable history of the region and you will see that Israel has been the most attacked and invaded sovereign nation in the last fifty years. Start there, be honest with yourself, and you will see that Israel has a right to do what they are doing now.

first of all, let me make everything more clear by using this new method, im gonna ask some "give reason" type questions, and u gotta answer them...

1- 115 innocent citizens are dead and over 250 injuries
2- destroying the whole infrastructure of the country
3- destroying a trade innocent Egyptian ship with 15 sailors
4- destroying Lebanese government buildings
5- USING INTERNATIONALY FORBIDDEN RADIOACTIVE MISSILES AND HIGHLY FLAMMABLE MATERIALS WHILE HIZBOLLAH MENT NOT TO HIT ANY CHEMICAL FACTORIES IN ISRAEL SO THAT NO POLLUTION OCCURS
6- attacking Gaza till now and killing tens of people even though Hamas in no more in war
7- ignoring all other countries requests to stop this war
8- the last thing and the bottom line of the whole topic, is invading a while country ignoring that we are living in human world not in a forest, I mean ignoring the UN and all other countries..

these are my questions for now, i hope to get a clear answers for them...

now comes my part to defend Hizbollah:
the story begins when Israel was first declared as a country in 1948...Im not really goin to discuss that now, but im tellin you that israel expanded its lands by invading Gaza, the Golan in Syria and Sinai...
UN requested Israel to get back to its original lands...but as usuall, no comment from Israel...

Egypt was able to return its land from Israel by 1973...Egypt and Israel had a peace agreement togather after then...again Israel invaded south Lebanon in 1982...

Hizbollah was first formed to resist the Israelian existance in Lebanon and was able to derive them out, except for the Shabaa part...

Now it's clear that Hizbollah still has the right to defend the their lands, and as a resistance act, they kiddnaped 2 Israelian soldiers so that they can have something to force Israel return back the innocent Lebanese in the Israelian prisons (by the way, u can still visit the old israelian prisons in Lebanon they had when they were in Lebanon, and u can obviously see how prisoners were treated...talk about it later)...

till now nothin was strange...but the wierd things are described in the questions i wrote earlier...

Simply the major loser in this war is Israel, cuz there will always be a resistive force against any invasion, while Israel is loosing too much soldiers rather the 2 soldiers in the beginning!!
I cant believe i drew my soldiers into hell to save other 2 soldiers!!..

Hizbollah said they will strike Hyfa with missiles if the Israelian attack didnt stop, and they simply did....Israel has to only blame itself and no other one for that...

Israel is asking Lebanon to apply 1559, but strangly Israel never applied any of the UN decisions about it!!

Great, then they are all as crazy as you?

No, they are supporting their own lands as me

If Israel wanted to keep and hold Lebanon, they could have done so long ago.

Yeah, but thank God, Hizbollah was there to kick their *** out...
It's funny how u are talking about invasion like that...."hold and keep"....is that a hamburger or something?...IT'S A COUNTRY!!

You would think that after fifty years they would have been able to find somewhere else to live.

So u want any invaded people to simply leave their lands to the invadors?
mmm, pretty interesting, you really love your country, arent you?

Are you being bombed in Egypt right now? Or was that only after you decided to attack Israel and got your butts handed to you? As a member of hezbollah, yes you are a terrorist.

Im not being bombed in Egypt, but that doesnt mean i dont care about innocent people..and throughout the history, non of the Arabic countries ever started attacking, it has always been Israel....1948, 1956, 1967, 1982, 2006...

Accidental civilian casualties are sad during military operations, yes. Civilian casualties due to targeting by terrorists is horrifying, which is what hezbollah and hamas are guilty of.

Accidental?!!!....Accidental?!!!!
Alright, what the hell will Hizbollah been doin inside Buirut airport, or inside normal citizens blocks, that were destroyed completely carriyng down with it tens of people?!!!

Israel is OBVIOUSLY targetting innocents....they destroyed a trade ship, they striked a normal van a normal house and a complete zone of buildings...

Yeah, I just told you, Israel was attacked.

What, you mean like taking the north part of it?
or destroying Tel aviv airport?
or striking with radioactive missiles?
or burning whole cities?
or cutting off the way of goods and medicins to the cities?
or may be Lebanon government is sending F-16's to destroy the Governmental buildings of Israel?
or may be sending military ships into forbiddin internation water to strike the country?

no all these didnt happen to Israel....but guess what....all of them happend to Lebanon and Palastine...

If Lebanon was truely interested in keeping safe, then they would have done something about keeping hezbollah from conducting terrorist activities against Israel.

first of all, Hizbollah was trying all over the time just to get the totall independancy for Lebanon....this is not terrorism, and never been internationally..
Second, in the same manner, arabs have to strike the UN building for not being able to force Israel respect its decisions...but ooh, i forgot, Israel is the that has the right to attack and invade in this world!!

You know, I was just wondering how so many people could be so ignorant of recent Middle East history. I think it is a combination of two things. I think that you believe in an entitlement and that you are very ignorant. Look into some reputable history of the region and you will see that Israel has been the most attacked and invaded sovereign nation in the last fifty years. Start there, be honest with yourself, and you will see that Israel has a right to do what they are doing now

We are ignorant?...please!!

I dont remember when was Israel really attacked....It always had the first shot...

and please, ofcaurse Israel has no right to destroy a country for 2 soldiers....this is out of sense...!)(

http://www.answers.com/topic/timeline-of-jewish-history

By the way michel, this site got biased information!

it calls Egypt getting Sinai an invasion, while Israel taking Sinai just take it!!
and when Egypt took its lands back, the site says: "Israel give it to them!!"...damn, dont u confess being defeated ever?

to be continued