Leftist vs. Liberal

[Valjean]

Sounds biased. Like a "government take over of healthcare." No, I think the state needs to provide oversight (hardly different than it does now) while insurance and profit have no room or place.
Equality of outcome is also not really much a thing and makes thise of us who are far Left appear very dumb and naive with that claim.
And, of course, many on the Left aren't liberals but still support Capitalism.

Wasn't the country that did try "government healthcare takeover" pretty happy with it? Aren't they still pretty happy with it, despite the continuing, Neo-liberal undermining begun by Thatcher?

 

[Little Dragon]

Hello. Here's something that I thought would make for interesting discussion, given some people's tendency to conflate the two:

Leftist vs Liberal: Key Differences (US Politicians Listed)

The terms "leftist" and "liberal" differ depending upon the context. In American political discourse, they represent two competing perspectives on the left side of the political aisle. Generally, liberal is used to refer to center-left

helpfulprofessor.com

Me both of dem fings.

 

[icehorse]

Yes, I get so confused with the misuse of the term "leftist." To make things even more complicated, one can be liberal on some things and leftist on other things (or, frankly, even conservative or far right for that matter). It's almost as if simplistic binaries don't adequately describe complex phenomena like political ideologies...

At the risk of being reductionist, when I hear divisive ideas, my gut reaction is that the speaker is probably more of a leftist than a liberal. For example, identity politics are almost by definition divisive, and I'd say used far more frequently by leftists than by liberals.

Of course there will be many exceptions, I'm making a statistical claim

 

[Valjean]

At the risk of being reductionist, when I hear divisive ideas, my gut reaction is that the speaker is probably more of a leftist than a liberal. For example, identity politics are almost by definition divisive, and I'd say used far more frequently by leftists than by liberals.

Of course there will be many exceptions, I'm making a statistical claim

Leftists tend to be liberal. Divisiveness, as in tribalism, nativism, or chauvinism, is typical of the Right. The Left tends to be inclusive and égalitarian.
The Right's tribalism often leads to xenophobic prejudice, nationalism and aggression.

 

[PureX]

The term 'liberal' refers to an attitude of being open to new ideas and better ways of doing things. It also refers to openness toward the differing views of others.

The term 'leftist' refers to an attitude of social and political collectivism as being the priority over self-centered individualism.

The term 'conservative' refers to those who's primary goal is to maintain the status quo. Usually because they have benefited most from it.

And 'the right' refers to those who want to take active control of society and government to forcibly impose their own advantage.

None of these terms are interchangeable. They each refer to their own specific idealized agenda.

 

[icehorse]

Leftists tend to be liberal. Divisiveness, as in tribalism, nativism, or chauvinism, is typical of the Right. The Left tends to be inclusive and égalitarian.
The Right's tribalism often leads to xenophobic prejudice, nationalism and aggression.

Initiatives like - FOR ONE EXAMPLE - DEI, sound inclusive, but very frequently are actually the opposite. I think that leftists have drifted away from your view of them into far more divisive territory, sigh.

 

[Bthoth]

The term 'liberal' refers to an attitude of being open to new ideas and better ways of doing things. It also refers to openness toward the differing views of others.

The term 'leftist' refers to an attitude of social and political collectivism as being the priority over self-centered individualism.

The term 'conservative' refers to those who's primary goal is to maintain the status quo. Usually because they have benefited most from it.

And 'the right' refers to those who want to take active control of society and government to forcibly impose their own advantage.

None of these terms are interchangeable. They each refer to their own specific idealized agenda.

I grew up fiscally conservative and yet liberal.
Now it's hard to even say I am conservative since i care more about evolving with knowledge than holding old ideas of a conservative philosophy.

 

[PureX]

I grew up fiscally conservative and yet liberal.
Now it's hard to even say I am conservative since i care more about evolving with knowledge than holding old ideas of a conservative philosophy.

Were you fiscally conservative? Or just in favor of fiscal responsibility? They aren't quite the same things and it could explain how you were generally also liberal. A fiscal conservative just wants things to stay the same as they are, which may not be especially responsible. Whereas being in favor of fiscal responsibility might mean making changes that promote that end.

 

[Colt]

Hello. Here's something that I thought would make for interesting discussion, given some people's tendency to conflate the two:

Leftist vs Liberal: Key Differences (US Politicians Listed)

The terms "leftist" and "liberal" differ depending upon the context. In American political discourse, they represent two competing perspectives on the left side of the political aisle. Generally, liberal is used to refer to center-left

helpfulprofessor.com

IMOP this is what Leftist could keep in mind in order to be happier.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I often ask people to look up the meanings of the words without the political distinction.

Liberal....

• Generous and abundant in actions and amount
• (in politics) Open to and in favor of progressive values, social reform, and broader interpretation of legal doctrines
• (in education) Concerned with a well-rounded intelligence or learning in the humanities

Conservative
a: tending or disposed to maintain existing views, conditions, or institutions : TRADITIONAL
conservative policies

b: marked by moderation or caution
a conservative estimate

c: marked by or relating to traditional norms of taste, elegance, style, or manners



The definitions have been changed over time to be a noun versus adjectives. The 2 terms are adjectives and now ruined by politics and fools.

I wonder, since conservatices are generally averse to change, how they manage to survive in a world where change is the only constant!

 

[Father Heathen]

IMOP this is what Leftist could keep in mind in order to be happier.

What a bizarre non sequitur. What does any of that have to do with the OP?

 

[Colt]

What a bizarre non sequitur. What does any of that have to do with the OP?

I keep forgetting, you take yourself too seriously. That should be on the list, Liberals lack a sense of humor unless they are mocking conservatives.

 

[Father Heathen]

I keep forgetting, you take yourself too seriously. That should be on the list, Liberals lack a sense of humor unless they are mocking conservatives.

Posting an image of text that's random, irrelevant, and nonsensical is more confusing than it is funny.

 

[Bthoth]

Were you fiscally conservative? Or just in favor of fiscal responsibility?

Yes and still in favor.

They aren't quite the same things and it could explain how you were generally also liberal. A fiscal conservative just wants things to stay the same as they are, which may not be especially responsible. Whereas being in favor of fiscal responsibility might mean making changes that promote that end.

No..... fiscal conservative, do not borrow beyond means. Do not put the country into more debt.... like reaganomics was my first breaking point to change how I chose.

 

[Bthoth]

I wonder, since conservatices are generally averse to change, how they manage to survive in a world where change is the only constant!

They have liberal minds as children and brethren to help them survive. Some had to have pity to help the species survive.

For example: without empathy and the compassion of woman, man would not have children.

 

[Unfettered]

All political labeling and factionalism is a waste of energy. Progress is found only in seeking agreement, to which the forming of political factions is fundamentally resistant (at best).

Leftist... liberal... who cares? What good has ever resulted from either label? Or from understanding the differences between the factions behind them?

 

[Valjean]

All political labeling and factionalism is a waste of energy. Progress is found only in seeking agreement, to which the forming of political factions is fundamentally resistant (at best).

Leftist... liberal... who cares? What good has ever resulted from either label? Or from understanding the differences between the factions behind them?

How is one to seek agreement without understanding the differences among the factions?

 

[PureX]

All political labeling and factionalism is a waste of energy. Progress is found only in seeking agreement, to which the forming of political factions is fundamentally resistant (at best).

Leftist... liberal... who cares? What good has ever resulted from either label? Or from understanding the differences between the factions behind them?

Well, understanding the particulars of any words we use in discussing each other's ideals would likely be helpful, .... if we are trying to find agreement, we will fist been to know what the disagreement is about.

The problem isn't the terminology, it's a lack of willingness to seek agreement. We live in a culture that has been promoting selfishness as a virtue for well over a century, and that message has long since taken hold. Now everyone wants everything their own way because they have been taught that that's how it should be by 100 years of industrial strength commercial advertising, in the service of bottomless capitalist greed. We live in a culture that abhors compromise in every message it generates. Freedom = selfishness. Success = excess. Commerce = the successful exploitation of everyone around us for everything we can get. And compromise is a dirty word. It infers weakness, and diluted desire, and subjugation. All faults to be avoided in the service of the self.

 

[Unfettered]

How is one to seek agreement without understanding the differences among the factions?

We seek agreement with one another when we want a common outcome. Factionalism has nothing to do with that.