Legalize Marijuana?

[Father Heathen]

Legalizing it isn't going to stop anything,

1920's Prohibition

 

[Jeremy Mason]

Legalizing it isn't going to stop anything, it hasn't stopped smuggled/ counterfeit tobacco or alcohol.

It would sure drive the price down, and if you think about it, the cartels would (for the most part) be severely compromised due to local growers.

Look what happens to the bootleggers of old. It's not the same now that alcohol is legal.

What is counterfeit tobacco?

 

[Stellify]

Just one point most growers steal the electricity ( because you need so much of it it would knock your profit margin)so thats illegal in itself.

Legalizing it isn't going to stop anything, it hasn't stopped smuggled/ counterfeit tobacco or alcohol.

I know a guy just got 4 years for supplying its his second time , he is just a dealer full stop. we have spoke of this and he says it wouldn't affect his business at all. he also sells large quantities of Cigarettes and booze, DVDs etc etc , all can be bought legally but everyone likes a bargain!

I haven't heard of illegal alcohol or tobacco sales, although I'm sure it happens.

But surely, the problem has decreased an incredible amount since the days of alcohol prohibition?

 

[misanthropic_clown]

I haven't heard of illegal alcohol or tobacco sales, although I'm sure it happens.

But surely, the problem has decreased an incredible amount since the days of alcohol prohibition?

It's not so much illegal substances as simply smuggled in without having certain taxes applied to it which makes it cheaper. Although sometimes people who smuggle cigarettes use this as an opportunity to sell low quality cigarettes which are more dangerous to health than the ones permitted in the UK.

 

[Stellify]

It's not so much illegal substances as simply smuggled in without having certain taxes applied to it which makes it cheaper. Although sometimes people who smuggle cigarettes use this as an opportunity to sell low quality cigarettes which are more dangerous to health than the ones permitted in the UK.

Sorry, I guess I should have worded that differently. I put it that way because I figured that the sales themselves were illegal due to smuggling.
In other words, since the products were brought in illegally (taxes weren't paid for them, or they didn't meet standards for health, etc), they were therefore illegal to sell.

 

[emiliano]

Stillify.
You said: Does it matter how much of their incomes would go to marijuana?
Yes it does because this vice (make me happy drugs) is an ever increasing demand in those that are hooked on it (dependant) Marijuana addiction is a phenomenon experienced by more than 150,000 individuals each year who enter treatment for their proclaimed addiction to marijuana. Marijuana addiction is characterized as compulsive, often uncontrollable marijuana craving, seeking, and use, even when the individual knows that marijuana use is not in his best interest. Marijuana addiction could be defined as chronically making the firm decision not to use marijuana followed shortly by a relapse due to experiencing overwhelming compulsive urges to use marijuana despite the firm decision not to. This contradiction is characteristic of an addiction problem. Marijuana - Marijuana Addiction - Marijuana Abuse Treatment - Drug Dependency
What do people do when they need more money to sustain their life styles?
Do you know of many users that reduce their consumption? Or is it the opposite? I have read many stories of users of hard illegal drugs that marijuana not only increased their consumption of marijuana but progress to the harder stuff that is was their first step into drug abuse.. Now as for the differences all these three dugs target the CNS and activated the some transmitter and the aim is to get to state of euphoria, alcohol is the most comparable, in both drug this effect is followed by depression.
Marijuana, Depression and Suicide
• One 16-year study showed that individuals
who were not depressed and then used
marijuana were four times more likely to be
depressed at follow up. (Bovasso, 2001)
• Another study investigated changes over
a 14-year period and found that marijuana
use was a predictor of later major
depressive disorder. (Brook, 2002)
• Yet another study over a 21-year period
found that marijuana use was associated
with depression, suicidal thoughts, and
suicide attempts. (Fergusson, 2002)
• A 2007 study of 3,239 Australian young
adults from birth to age 21 found a
relationship between early initiation, and
frequent use of cannabis and symptoms
of anxiety and depression, regardless of a
personal or family history of mental illness.
(Hayatbakhsh, 2007
http://www.spokesmanreview.com/blogs/spon/whirlwind/archive.asp?postID=387

 

[emiliano]

I do wonder how the Dutch are doing with this. Surely they must all be trying to hold up the last few remnants of a society destroyed by cannabis, right?

Are they getting wealthier? I recon that the last economical global mess that we find ourselves in, was cause by stoned politician and company directors. The Dutch are in a bigger mess, but provably don’t know it, but soon they’ll have come out their stupor. Wonder no more they are deep in kaka.

 

[Jeremy Mason]

Stillify.
You said: Does it matter how much of their incomes would go to marijuana?
Yes it does because this vice (make me happy drugs) is an ever increasing demand in those that are hooked on it (dependant) Marijuana addiction is a phenomenon experienced by more than 150,000 individuals each year who enter treatment for their proclaimed addiction to marijuana. Marijuana addiction is characterized as compulsive, often uncontrollable marijuana craving, seeking, and use, even when the individual knows that marijuana use is not in his best interest. Marijuana addiction could be defined as chronically making the firm decision not to use marijuana followed shortly by a relapse due to experiencing overwhelming compulsive urges to use marijuana despite the firm decision not to. This contradiction is characteristic of an addiction problem. Marijuana - Marijuana Addiction - Marijuana Abuse Treatment - Drug Dependency
What do people do when they need more money to sustain their life styles?
Do you know of many users that reduce their consumption? Or is it the opposite? I have read many stories of users of hard illegal drugs that marijuana not only increased their consumption of marijuana but progress to the harder stuff that is was their first step into drug abuse.. Now as for the differences all these three dugs target the CNS and activated the some transmitter and the aim is to get to state of euphoria, alcohol is the most comparable, in both drug this effect is followed by depression.
Marijuana, Depression and Suicide
• One 16-year study showed that individuals
who were not depressed and then used
marijuana were four times more likely to be
depressed at follow up. (Bovasso, 2001)
• Another study investigated changes over
a 14-year period and found that marijuana
use was a predictor of later major
depressive disorder. (Brook, 2002)
• Yet another study over a 21-year period
found that marijuana use was associated
with depression, suicidal thoughts, and
suicide attempts. (Fergusson, 2002)
• A 2007 study of 3,239 Australian young
adults from birth to age 21 found a
relationship between early initiation, and
frequent use of cannabis and symptoms
of anxiety and depression, regardless of a
personal or family history of mental illness.
(Hayatbakhsh, 2007
http://www.spokesmanreview.com/blogs/spon/whirlwind/archive.asp?postID=387

YouTube - rehab

 

[emiliano]

It certainly isn't a victimless vice: biker gang violence because of marijuana seems to have gone down here lately (it makes the news less frequently, at least), but many, many innocent people have been killed by criminals fighting over the control of the pot trade in different areas.

Also, the people who set up marijuana grow-ops routinely damage the wiring in the houses they use - the police check for houses with unusually high electricty usage to find grow-ops, so these criminals circumvent the electrical meter to avoid detection this way.

However, all of this harm comes directly out of the fact that marijuana is illegal. Legalize it and these problems go away, just as they did for alcohol when prohibition was repealed.

As I recall the arguments were that people drives car and operated machinery under the influence of a drug that impair judgement, and it was said that legalization would provably increase consumption, if this were the case legalization will add to the evil, we also had a look at the cost of regulating the use of this stuff, we cannot agree on this one, but the road carnage that occurs around Xmas, thank given, school terms celebration etc would increase. We also have look at the possible toll that would come from having Doctors, pilots, bus/train driver coming to work and been under the influence.

 

[Jeremy Mason]

As I recall the arguments were that people drives car and operated machinery under the influence of a drug that impair judgement, and it was said that legalization would provably increase consumption, if this were the case legalization will add to the evil, we also had a look at the cost of regulating the use of this stuff, we cannot agree on this one, but the road carnage that occurs around Xmas, thank given, school terms celebration etc would increase. We also have look at the possible toll that would come from having Doctors, pilots, bus/train driver coming to work and been under the influence.

Given the reality of how these substances effect people, I would rather work with someone under the influence of meth than someone under the influence alcohol any day.

Alcohol kills more people than all the other drugs combined, exponentially. If anything, legalizing all drugs, imho, might and probably would reduce alcohol consumption drastically, therefore saving lives. I'm not saying it's a cure all, but if you ask most meth-heads or other drug users, they typically will say they aren't big drinkers... it's counterproductive to that type of high, plus it's too expensive.

 

[Stellify]

Stillify.
You said: Does it matter how much of their incomes would go to marijuana?
Yes it does because this vice (make me happy drugs) is an ever increasing demand in those that are hooked on it (dependant) Marijuana addiction is a phenomenon experienced by more than 150,000 individuals each year who enter treatment for their proclaimed addiction to marijuana. Marijuana addiction is characterized as compulsive, often uncontrollable marijuana craving, seeking, and use, even when the individual knows that marijuana use is not in his best interest. Marijuana addiction could be defined as chronically making the firm decision not to use marijuana followed shortly by a relapse due to experiencing overwhelming compulsive urges to use marijuana despite the firm decision not to. This contradiction is characteristic of an addiction problem. Marijuana - Marijuana Addiction - Marijuana Abuse Treatment - Drug Dependency
What do people do when they need more money to sustain their life styles?
Do you know of many users that reduce their consumption? Or is it the opposite? I have read many stories of users of hard illegal drugs that marijuana not only increased their consumption of marijuana but progress to the harder stuff that is was their first step into drug abuse.. Now as for the differences all these three dugs target the CNS and activated the some transmitter and the aim is to get to state of euphoria, alcohol is the most comparable, in both drug this effect is followed by depression.
Marijuana, Depression and Suicide
• One 16-year study showed that individuals
who were not depressed and then used
marijuana were four times more likely to be
depressed at follow up. (Bovasso, 2001)
• Another study investigated changes over
a 14-year period and found that marijuana
use was a predictor of later major
depressive disorder. (Brook, 2002)
• Yet another study over a 21-year period
found that marijuana use was associated
with depression, suicidal thoughts, and
suicide attempts. (Fergusson, 2002)
• A 2007 study of 3,239 Australian young
adults from birth to age 21 found a
relationship between early initiation, and
frequent use of cannabis and symptoms
of anxiety and depression, regardless of a
personal or family history of mental illness.
(Hayatbakhsh, 2007
http://www.spokesmanreview.com/blogs/spon/whirlwind/archive.asp?postID=387

*facepalm*

Emiliano, I'm really sick of explaining the same things to you over and over and over again. I really don't like being repetitive, and I don't think I can simplify it any more than I already have.
Please come back when you know how to interpret studies better. All of the ones you just quoted don't mean a thing. None of them prove your point. I would explain why, but I've done that before.....And every time you ignore it and continue to post the same kinds of things, as if NEXT time, it will get you somewhere.

 

[DarkSun]

Given the reality of how these substances effect people, I would rather work with someone under the influence of meth than someone under the influence alcohol any day.

Alcohol kills more people than all the other drugs combined, exponentially. If anything, legalizing all drugs, imho, might and probably would reduce alcohol consumption drastically, therefore saving lives. I'm not saying it's a cure all, but if you ask most meth-heads or other drug users, they typically will say they aren't big drinkers... it's counterproductive to that type of high, plus it's too expensive.

Once again, alcohol is more accepted than any other drug. Almost everyone uses it. But even less poeple use illegal narcotics. So of course more people are going to die or be killed because of alcohol. Comparing alcohol to other drugs is unfair because of the relative sample sizes and also the Law of Large Numbers.

And you think that people are going to stop consuming alcohol if meth, cocaine or THC are made legal? Alcohol is too ingrained in our culture for that to happen, thank goodness.

 

[emiliano]

Ya know, if we was discussing cocaine, heroin, methamphetamine, or amphetamines in general, I would believe you.

The latest I heard is that hydroponically grown marijuana is the culprit, but they are definitely pothead going crazy.

Many studies of marijuana dangers associate repeated use of the drug with lower test scores and academic abilities. On the job, workers who smoke pot often miss more work, have more accidents and are more likely to lose their job.
On emotional level marijuana dangers include isolation, depression and an increase in anxiety. Uncomfortable feelings and fear also lead to more use of the drug that can make for more problems. Studies show that over time, individuals who become physically and/or emotionally dependent on marijuana can find that they are falling behind on basic fundamental life skills that are being acquired by peers in the same age range. This can lead to self-esteem problems as self-reinforcement abilities deteriorate and confidence diminishes. So why doesn't the pot smoker stop smoking pot?
Another one of the marijuana dangers is physical dependence on the drug. Many people try to stop over and over but are overwhelmed by anxiety, irritability and sleeping difficulties. Physical dependence is marked by withdrawal symptoms when the drug is removed. The marijuana dangers include the bodies' adaptation to an almost continuous presence of the drug in its system. The brain adapts to the pain reducing reaction to the drug and its other analgesic effects like inducing sleep. Those who have only tried smoking pot once or twice might be amazed that anybody could function on the drug at all. But those who have been smoking the drug for months and years have become accustom to its effects and can often hide the fact that they are high at all.

http://www.marijuana-addiction.net/marijuana-dangers.htm

 

[emiliano]

Given the reality of how these substances effect people, I would rather work with someone under the influence of meth than someone under the influence alcohol any day.

Alcohol kills more people than all the other drugs combined, exponentially. If anything, legalizing all drugs, imho, might and probably would reduce alcohol consumption drastically, therefore saving lives. I'm not saying it's a cure all, but if you ask most meth-heads or other drug users, they typically will say they aren't big drinkers... it's counterproductive to that type of high, plus it's too expensive.

This is new to me, I got this in the net, that in it conclusion says: Comorbidity between DSM-IV alcohol and specific drug use disorders in the United States: results from the National Epidemiologic Survey on Alcohol and Related Conditions.
CONCLUSIONS: This study provides detailed data on the homotypic comorbidity of alcohol use disorders and 25 different drug use disorders and confirms the high levels of association seen in previous studies based on lifetime measures. Implications of this study are discussed in terms of integrating alcohol and drug treatment services and refining prevention and intervention efforts.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16157233

 

[Stellify]

This is new to me, I got this in the net, that in it conclusion says: Comorbidity between DSM-IV alcohol and specific drug use disorders in the United States: results from the National Epidemiologic Survey on Alcohol and Related Conditions.
CONCLUSIONS: This study provides detailed data on the homotypic comorbidity of alcohol use disorders and 25 different drug use disorders and confirms the high levels of association seen in previous studies based on lifetime measures. Implications of this study are discussed in terms of integrating alcohol and drug treatment services and refining prevention and intervention efforts.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16157233

Do you even know what that means? Really?






Because from the small bit of the summary I saw, it STILL said that alcohol-only disorders had a higher rate of occurrence.

So basically, Jeremy should be thanking you for backing up his post.

Edit: I might add, that even though there might be a statistically significant comorbidity rate for alcohol and drug disorders, that doesn't mean that everyone that uses drugs also uses alcohol, which I think is what you were trying to say?

And really, I'm not sure what the point of your post was....comorbidity, last I checked, meant that certain things occur together, but are unrelated.

 

[Jeremy Mason]

This is new to me, I got this in the net, that in it conclusion says: Comorbidity between DSM-IV alcohol and specific drug use disorders in the United States: results from the National Epidemiologic Survey on Alcohol and Related Conditions.
CONCLUSIONS: This study provides detailed data on the homotypic comorbidity of alcohol use disorders and 25 different drug use disorders and confirms the high levels of association seen in previous studies based on lifetime measures. Implications of this study are discussed in terms of integrating alcohol and drug treatment services and refining prevention and intervention efforts.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16157233

I'm purely speaking from the people I know who use different drugs. I'm sure there are studies that will, according to there biases, prove otherwise, but when dealing with these people one on one, they will tell you alcohol is detrimental to the effects of any given drug and there are studies that prove that as I'm sure you might be aware of.

 

[Father Heathen]

Are they getting wealthier? I recon that the last economical global mess that we find ourselves in, was cause by stoned politician and company directors. The Dutch are in a bigger mess, but provably don’t know it, but soon they’ll have come out their stupor. Wonder no more they are deep in kaka.

Are you honestly trying to suggest cannabis is the cause of the current economic crisis? Are you ******* serious? Really?

 

[kai]

It would sure drive the price down, and if you think about it, the cartels would (for the most part) be severely compromised due to local growers.

Look what happens to the bootleggers of old. It's not the same now that alcohol is legal.

What is counterfeit tobacco?

I should have wrote counterfeit cigarettes

BBC NEWS | Programmes | Crooked Britain | 'Fake cigarettes' health alert

BBC NEWS | England | Counterfeit booze clampdown

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

It would sure drive the price down, and if you think about it, the cartels would (for the most part) be severely compromised due to local growers.

Look what happens to the bootleggers of old. It's not the same now that alcohol is legal.

What is counterfeit tobacco?

At least here, there have been problems with cigarette smuggling: people would buy them in the US where the taxes are lower and then smuggle them across the border. One way the government tried to combat the problem was by mandating that a special seal be put on legal tobacco packs when they're manufactured. Some smugglers would forge these seals to make theirs look legal, so their convenience store clients could display them openly.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Well, if it were for the sake of those few who are going to have a bad reaction, do you think that prohibitting it would be best? You mentioned two people out of dozens you've met who had a bad reaction.

Given that marijuana becomes legal and accepted, if we use that as a sample for the world population, how many more people do you think will react badly?

Not as many. But, my girlfriend is allergic to most laundry detergents, fabric softeners, a good amount of body splashes and sprays, some foods, and any sulfur or penicillin based medications can potentially kill her because she is so allergic to them. I'm allergic to a couple medicines myself. So if you want to prohibit something just because someone had a bad reaction, then we need to pull pretty much every medication off the shelves, all nuts, milk, anything with any sort of fragrance, flowers, ceder chips, we need new materials for wiring since some people will have reactions from certain types of insulation, and probably some more things just to be on the safe side. Oh, we might even need to blot out to the sun itself, since some people do have negative reactions from direct sunlight.
Sun allergy: Can I be allergic to sunshine? - MayoClinic.com
And in just about everyone, the evil sun must go since it does cause sun burns, and too much can cause skin cancer.

I am going to ask. Why do I not know anyone who has dealt with serious mental illness or addiction to pot? And I know people who can keep up with Cheech and Chong. Speaking of those two, why did they never have psychotic break outs? And while we are speaking of the hippy era, why was the original Woodstock not a very hostile environment, since damn near everybody who was their, including the musicians and technicians, we either stoned off of weed, or trippin' off of LSD. And which drug did they have a problem with? Someone brought in a batch of bad acid, but no one complained about bad weed.
Caffiene is much more addictive than weed can every be. I will have headaches if I don't consume caffiene daily. That is pretty addictive. But not one pot head will suffer even that if they don't get consume weed.
And why did Micheal Phelps, the 8 time gold medal olypics toker, not go on rampant rages? But rather, proved many people wrong when this pot head showed alot of motivation, dedication, and guess what? Proved theories of "marijuana reduces motivation" wrong. But surely if pot was bad, he would not have had the dedication, the will, nor have spent long hours training to get as good as he is.

On the job, workers who smoke pot often miss more work, have more accidents and are more likely to lose their job.

I've worked with plenty of pot heads who are held in high regards at their jobs. They don't miss work, they don't have accidents, and they are too high up in respect or position to loose their jobs unless they REALLY mess up.

But those who have been smoking the drug for months and years have become accustom to its effects and can often hide the fact that they are high at all.

You can ALWAYS tell if someone is high. No matter how hard you try to hide it, unless you are wearing very dark tinted sun glasses, it's can be very difficult to hide. Even then, if you know what real people act like when they smoke up, then you can tell regardless of how well they hide it.

I am also wondering, why is it that this "research" will state things about pot, yet there are very, very few people who have adverse effects from weed? Why is it some of us speak from personal experience, yet the government, that is known for lying, gets to take precedent over first hand experience?