Legalize Marijuana?

[emiliano]

Alot of potheads are also more productive than average, rarely miss work, never sick, never fired, and pretty much the exact opposite of what you just stated about an entire group of people, of which I now of only a few that even come close to that description, and its not the weed that's making them do it.

False, they cannot and should not operate machinery, I was told here that in the US there are drugs screening, HTC is stored in the body fat and it active and will show in test for weeks, I have had several jobs and have fired some incorrigible pot-heads myself, on safety at work grounds, this is after having to replace them or change them to a job that does not require good judgement and getting three warnings.

And I only wish wages were equal to production. Harsh truth is, it simply is not.

It cannot be equal, you must produce your pay plus the company’s profit, why would they employ you if you are just going to produce what they pay you? This is what is wrong with people that used drugs their demands for money increases in accordance to their dependence on drugs, and dependence increases as a consequence of their frustrations, no employer is going to pay you more that what you are worth.

 

[emiliano]

The main poinst is that current drug policy is anything but moral.

YouTube - Lard - Drug Raid At 4 am (stereo)
Great post![/quote]

We all know that there is immorality in our countries, why add to it? Don't we have enough of it?

 

[emiliano]

The main point is that current drug policy is anything but moral.

So we should add to it by making our government partners in these immoralities? interesting take on the issue.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

So we should add to it by making our government partners in these immoralities? interesting take on the issue.

Do you know that Jesus, along with many other ancient Jewish kings, including David, were anointed in Cannabis oil? And that the Cannabis plant played a fairly big part in early Judaism?

 

[emiliano]

Do you know that Jesus, along with many other ancient Jewish kings, including David, were anointed in Cannabis oil? And that the Cannabis plant played a fairly big part in early Judaism?

And what this got to do with the price of tea in China?
anoint
anoint [ə nóynt]
(3rd person present singular anoints, present participle anointing, past anointed, past participle anointed)
vt
1. bless somebody with oil: to rub oil or ointment on a part of somebody’s body, usually the head or feet, as part of a religious ceremony, for example in a Christian baptism
2. ordain somebody: to install somebody officially or ceremonially in a position or office
[14th century. Via Old French enoint , the past participle of enoindre , from Latin inungere , from ungere ‘to smear’ (source of English ointment and unctuous).]
-anointment, n
Encarta ® World English Dictionary © & (P) 1998-2004 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.
Is this why you guy want to legalize Cannabis? If that's the case anoint yourselves all you want, but this isn’t what this is all about, is it?

 

[England my lionheart]

IMHO Marijuana is pretty lame stuff,i had a bad fall off of a Horse while jumping a fence after a few bears at a Pub and had back problems,i dislike taking prescribed drugs as i find painkillers make you drowsy so i smoked Marijuana before going to bed and slept like a baby with no drowsy feeling the next day.
I work a lot at heights and have never had any problems the next morning so my judgement must be ok because i'm still here however jumping a fence on a Horse after drinking or even the next day after drinking is not a good idea.
In the Army they test Soldiers for drugs and Marijuana stays in the blood for 4 to 9 days or more for a heavy user although this does'nt mean that there is any effect even after 1 day.

 

[Father Heathen]

So we should add to it by making our government partners in these immoralities? interesting take on the issue.

But they're not "immoralities". That's your own personal opinion which only applies to you alone. If you think it's "immoral", then don't use it. It's that simple. But it's not your place to overstep your bounds and trample the rights and liberty of others. I consider your beliefs and practices immoral, and yet I still respect your right to them. Secular governments aren't in the business of enforcing morality.

 

[TurkeyOnRye]

False, they cannot and should not operate machinery, I was told here that in the US there are drugs screening, HTC is stored in the body fat and it active and will show in test for weeks, I have had several jobs and have fired some incorrigible pot-heads myself, on safety at work grounds, this is after having to replace them or change them to a job that does not require good judgement and getting three warnings.

As far as motor coordination goes, I agree with you that most marijuana, particularly those grown from Indica varieties, inhibits your capacity to do things such as operate machinery, at least in the moments while you're high. Having said that, a great majority of smokers are responsible and understand the dangers associated with it and take precautions to minimize the risks (I being one). Those that do abuse marijuana (quite a feat) - this goes for any substance - are often those who are highly out-of-touch with reality, who understand little of themselves and why they use. Not ironically, these are the same people that cause problems even when sober.

For those who use marijuana to elevate their consciousness rather than decrease it, there are very real positive attributes to its use. Marijuana has an unequaled ability to work as a balancing agent, with obvious medicinal properties. Not only that, but marijuana, particularly those from Sativa varieties can influence introspection, creativity and aid in meditation. Many spiritual and philosophical realizations and breakthroughs for me (and so many others) have come in the moments while smoking marijuana and has helped me to permanently dissolve negative mental structures that have been roadblocks for me to living a generally happy and peaceful life.

Aside from its positive recreational potential, Cannabis has practically unlimited practical industrial uses at substantially lower production costs than anything we use today. You can find a sparse page that covers some of the uses of Cannabis here: Uses of Hemp

Cannabis has been used by humanity since prehistory. It is a plant that has co-evolved alongside us for thousands of years. It is certainly a biased position for one to argue that it is a harmful plant with no positive or practical attributes.

 

[England my lionheart]

As far as motor coordination goes, I agree with you that most marijuana, particularly those grown from Indica varieties, inhibits your capacity to do things such as operate machinery, at least in the moments while you're high. Having said that, a great majority of smokers are responsible and understand the dangers associated with it and take precautions to minimize the risks (I being one). Those that do abuse marijuana (quite a feat), and this goes for any substance, are often people who are highly out-of-touch with reality, who understand little of themselves and why they use. Not ironically, these are the same people that cause problems even when sober.

For those who use marijuana to elevate their consciousness rather than decrease it, there are very real positive attributes to its use. Marijuana has an unequaled ability to work as a balancing agent, with obvious medicinal properties. Not only that, but marijuana, particularly those from Sativa varieties can influence introspection, creativity and aid in meditation. Many spiritual and philosophical realizations and breakthroughs for me (and so many others) have come in the moments while smoking marijuana and has helped me to permanently dissolve negative mental structures that have been roadblocks for me to living a generally happy and peaceful life.

Aside from its positive recreational potential, Cannabis has practically unlimited practical industrial uses at substantially lower production costs than anything we use today. You can find a sparse page that covers some of the uses of Cannabis here: Uses of Hemp

Cannabis has been used by humanity since prehistory. It is a plant that has co-evolved alongside us for thousands of years. It is certainly a biased position for one to argue that this plant has no positive or practical attributes.

I have a long length of Hemp rope and still good after 15 years

 

[TurkeyOnRye]

I have a long length of Hemp rope and still good after 15 years

Indeed. The utilitarian uses of hemp are staggering. It puts corn, cotton and soybeans to shame.

 

[gnomon]

So we should add to it by making our government partners in these immoralities? interesting take on the issue.

Are you purposely obfuscating the point.

Everything I discussed in that post represents the current lack of morality due to the drug laws. Repealing many laws, rewriting others and efforts towards decriminalization to reduce the effects would be the moral thing to do.

The government is not only a partner in these immoralities but the creator as well.

 

[emiliano]

IMHO Marijuana is pretty lame stuff,i had a bad fall off of a Horse while jumping a fence after a few bears at a Pub and had back problems,i dislike taking prescribed drugs as i find painkillers make you drowsy so i smoked Marijuana before going to bed and slept like a baby with no drowsy feeling the next day.
I work a lot at heights and have never had any problems the next morning so my judgement must be ok because i'm still here however jumping a fence on a Horse after drinking or even the next day after drinking is not a good idea.
In the Army they test Soldiers for drugs and Marijuana stays in the blood for 4 to 9 days or more for a heavy user although this does'nt mean that there is any effect even after 1 day.

It seems to me that you never had good judgement, what the hell were you doing chasing bears, what kind of job do you have? Are you still an alcoholic? What do you make of your progression from a drunkard to Cannabis dependency? So this drug is in your body for 4 to 9 days and is inactive? What kind of test are we talking about? Should other people trust that your luck will continue? If it runs out and you kill somebody, what you think of that? If you get kill it will be due to your irresponsibility, but others? Those that are above you in hierarchy have a duty of care and if they knowingly allowed you to work they are criminally negligent. What do you think of that? Do you know how many substances in addition to HTC are you putting into your body when you smoke the stuff? Carcinogen like tar pesticides, fertiliser, what do these substances do to your body? I’ll tell you, pain won’t kill you but these substance surely will, you will be a burden to society and slowly but surely will die, costing your fellow country-man plenty.

 

[emiliano]

As far as motor coordination goes, I agree with you that most marijuana, particularly those grown from Indica varieties, inhibits your capacity to do things such as operate machinery, at least in the moments while you're high. Having said that, a great majority of smokers are responsible and understand the dangers associated with it and take precautions to minimize the risks (I being one). Those that do abuse marijuana (quite a feat) - this goes for any substance - are often those who are highly out-of-touch with reality, who understand little of themselves and why they use. Not ironically, these are the same people that cause problems even when sober.

For those who use marijuana to elevate their consciousness rather than decrease it, there are very real positive attributes to its use. Marijuana has an unequaled ability to work as a balancing agent, with obvious medicinal properties. Not only that, but marijuana, particularly those from Sativa varieties can influence introspection, creativity and aid in meditation. Many spiritual and philosophical realizations and breakthroughs for me (and so many others) have come in the moments while smoking marijuana and has helped me to permanently dissolve negative mental structures that have been roadblocks for me to living a generally happy and peaceful life.

Aside from its positive recreational potential, Cannabis has practically unlimited practical industrial uses at substantially lower production costs than anything we use today. You can find a sparse page that covers some of the uses of Cannabis here: Uses of Hemp

Cannabis has been used by humanity since prehistory. It is a plant that has co-evolved alongside us for thousands of years. It is certainly a biased position for one to argue that it is a harmful plant with no positive or practical attributes.

What do think of smoking it?

 

[emiliano]

Are you purposely obfuscating the point.

Everything I discussed in that post represents the current lack of morality due to the drug laws. Repealing many laws, rewriting others and efforts towards decriminalization to reduce the effects would be the moral thing to do.

The government is not only a partner in these immoralities but the creator as well.

What are you saying? Decriminalising immorality would help society? Do you agree that I this is an immorality? And I mean to sell it, and advertise it, If a person does not have an illness that can be cured or help by it, advertising it used for medicinal purposes to s those that aren’t sick is immoral, there are many drug that help the treatment of various conditions and doctor prescribe them because they are legal, the use of these drug for recreational purposes is illegal, to those that propose legalisation I like to ask: how is this going to work? The drug for medicinal purpose for example, will they be dispensed by prescription only? What would be the route of administration?

 

[lamplighter]

Lamplighter ,
The use of drugs in the scale that we see today springs out of lust for the “I must have something that will make me feel happy“, the wealthy can afford it, the poor of this world are been sucked into it, how do you justify the used of marijuana in the people that straggle every day to put bread on their tale? Marijuana will be heavily tax for the same reasons that alcohol and tobacco is, their cost that they put on the health system, the police and other systems.

Burden of the system? It's a burden of the system already because just like the alcohol prohibition, MARIJUANA PROHIBITION DOES NOT WORK. It puts a huge burden on the system the way it is now because of the millions of dollars we spend on enforcing marijuana prohibition. If we decriminalized it, it would free up tons of much needed prison space, as well spend money on better things like catching rapists and murderers. Having alcohol legal and keeping marijuana illegal is like saying it's perfectly fine for 18 wheelers down the neighborhood roads but, throwing everyone in jail for peddling a bicycle.

Pot-heads are less productive and sicker than the general population, they get fire from their jobs more often, then the state get in with social security hand outs and they become a burden to all, they cannot gather enough money to have a deposit to buy a house, the state get it and sub-prime is born, so now the state must finance their vices (lust) and a house and to make things worst it becomes a right, the rich does it so they want equal rights. Your earning are just part of what you produce to your employer and it will never pay more till your productions mean more to the employer, that is if they want to continue employing, CEOs are in that category they managed a companies that produce good returns ( millions of dollar) they get pay more, they must produced more than they get pay for, the state is the worst CEO there is.

Well then looks like quite a few corporations need to fire their CEOs, especially in the American automotive industry, since an employee be it CEO or or the guy making $10 an hour needs to make the company more money then they're worth.

By the way do you think that the US will become a socialist state?

By what do you mean socialist? Are you talking about full blown USSR communist, then no. If you're talking about certain needs like helth care being socialized then yes, eventually...

Do you think that pot will become cheaper under the new/changed US promised by the Liberals?

Marijuana is like any other commodity and is effected by the changes in the passing of laws, economy, availability and, desire for it.

 

[England my lionheart]

It seems to me that you never had good judgement, what the hell were you doing chasing bears, what kind of job do you have? Are you still an alcoholic? What do you make of your progression from a drunkard to Cannabis dependency? So this drug is in your body for 4 to 9 days and is inactive? What kind of test are we talking about? Should other people trust that your luck will continue? If it runs out and you kill somebody, what you think of that? If you get kill it will be due to your irresponsibility, but others? Those that are above you in hierarchy have a duty of care and if they knowingly allowed you to work they are criminally negligent. What do you think of that? Do you know how many substances in addition to HTC are you putting into your body when you smoke the stuff? Carcinogen like tar pesticides, fertiliser, what do these substances do to your body? I’ll tell you, pain won’t kill you but these substance surely will, you will be a burden to society and slowly but surely will die, costing your fellow country-man plenty.

Emiliano where did you get the Bears from i'm not Grizzly Adams,i don,t think the odd session at the Pub makes me an Alchoholic but it is a very British thing to do
even Winston Churchill liked to imbibe a few Whiskeys and it did'nt do him or us to much harm.
As for Marijuana,well its been smoked by many a good people perhaps even the likes of Crazy Horse and Sitting Bull before they kicked Custers ***,Elizabethans smoked it ,explorers physicians,Romans smoked it,during the Crusades Assasins smoked it and thats where the word originates from Hashashins.
There is already too much big brother in the world but if we were talking Heroin or crack cocaine i would be agreeing with you a little but it should be a matter of choice.

 

[emiliano]

Lamplighter,
The devil is in the details, the problem is that the proponent of socialism (the modern kind of socialism) want to usurp the wealth of some to finance the vices of others, the burden of fighting drugs is shared by all, we all pay taxes so as to have social safety, the main problem is the mode of ingestion of this drug, it is smoking is it. Isn’t it? And as I said there are several other harmful substances introduced by this route of ingestion, if it’s a medicine, it should be by prescription only and smoking it would be contra-indicated because of the tar, tar is carcinogens, and damages the respiratory tract, and the heart. It is easy for you to propose the legalization of such harmful vice because you are planing to finance it with someone else’s money, other people hard earn wealth.
If we decriminalized it, it would free up tons of much needed prison space, as well spend money on better things like catching rapists and murderers.
Ah, but in the same line of thought, why not legalize rape and murder? There will be practically no reason to have a police force or jails, and money saved could be use to build the utopia that socialist dream about when they a stoned out of their wits, create a welfare state where the wealthy pay for every thing, what will happen when you managed to ruin the rich?
Having alcohol legal and keeping marijuana illegal is like saying it's perfectly fine for 18 wheelers down the neighborhood roads but, throwing everyone in jail for peddling a bicycle.
And adding to the error of the past yet another harmful vice. What do you make of that?
Well then looks like quite a few corporations need to fire their CEOs, especially in the American automotive industry, since an employee be it CEO or or the guy making $10 an hour needs to make the company more money then they're worth.

CEOs remain in their position only for as long as they produce profits, more that they cost to the company, their world is a very completive one, if they don’t succeed in this they do get fire, they compete and negotiate their earnings, promising investor a return on investment, if they don’t they are fired.
Marijuana is like any other commodity and is effected by the changes in the passing of laws, economy, availability and, desire for it.
That's the key “desire for it” this could be better tackled by educating the youth of our societies, to educate people on the dangers of smoking substances that impair good judgement and affect their health in such a way that their lust for good times will kill them in an unpleasant way. To destroy the seductive arguments, for example it medicinal proprieties, it good for treating nausea, if you are not nauseated, why should you smoke a joint? And why smoke it? What about HTC suppositories? What wrong with that?

 

[gnomon]

What are you saying? Decriminalising immorality would help society? Do you agree that I this is an immorality? And I mean to sell it, and advertise it, If a person does not have an illness that can be cured or help by it, advertising it used for medicinal purposes to s those that aren’t sick is immoral, there are many drug that help the treatment of various conditions and doctor prescribe them because they are legal, the use of these drug for recreational purposes is illegal, to those that propose legalisation I like to ask: how is this going to work? The drug for medicinal purpose for example, will they be dispensed by prescription only? What would be the route of administration?

Do away with no-knock warrants for drug busts.

No longer utilize SWAT and other tactical forces for drug busts.

Do away with mandatory minimums.

Reschedule marijuana from Schedule I to Schedule IV.

Decriminalize the sale, possession, distribution and manufacture of certain levels of marijuana.

Any cost/benefit analysis reveals U.S. drug policy to fail in its objectives of reducing marijuana use and sale. The risks from marijuana use already exist with very little substantiating evidence that they would increase with decriminalization. However, the stronger the laws become the more freedoms that are removed from all as well as the increase in "collateral" damage.

U.S. drug policy has failed.

I couldn't give a damn if some people are just concerned that marijuana use is immoral when compared to the laws and their enforcement wreaking devastation on liberty and lives.

 

[emiliano]

Emiliano where did you get the Bears from i'm not Grizzly Adams,i don,t think the odd session at the Pub makes me an Alchoholic but it is a very British thing to do
even Winston Churchill liked to imbibe a few Whiskeys and it did'nt do him or us to much harm.
As for Marijuana,well its been smoked by many a good people perhaps even the likes of Crazy Horse and Sitting Bull before they kicked Custers ***,Elizabethans smoked it ,explorers physicians,Romans smoked it,during the Crusades Assasins smoked it and thats where the word originates from Hashashins.
There is already too much big brother in the world but if we were talking Heroin or crack cocaine i would be agreeing with you a little but it should be a matter of choice.

Sorry I read it wrong:sorry1:, But you tell us that you smoke cannabis and you capacity for good judgement remains the same, what I say is that a persons that have such lack of judgement as to get drunk and injury himself, that person has not a good sense of judgement even before they are affected by a drug. What's with the famous people that had vices that they could not control, you say “I work a lot at heights and have never had any problems the next morning” I pray that this work on hight is not in a in hierarchical sense. Well any ways this convinces me that this crisis was caused either by drunks or stoned CEOs and government officials, They should be drug screened before allow them to do their jobs.

 

[DarkSun]

burden of the system? It's a burden of the system already because just like the alcohol prohibition, marijuana prohibition does not work. It puts a huge burden on the system the way it is now because of the millions of dollars we spend on enforcing marijuana prohibition. If we decriminalized it, it would free up tons of much needed prison space, as well spend money on better things like catching rapists and murderers. Having alcohol legal and keeping marijuana illegal is like saying it's perfectly fine for 18 wheelers down the neighborhood roads but, throwing everyone in jail for peddling a bicycle.

Meth prohibition does not work.