Legalize Marijuana?

[emiliano]

Zephyr,

Rape and murder have victims. If a guy decides to smoke a joint after dinner, who is it harming?

When a person is high reality is distorted and judgement impaired, perceived abilities are heighten, so chances are that whatever that person saw as a limits no longer exist. Let say that the person is shy and it has an amorous interest, but could never get the courage to tell her/him, let say that the other person lives miles away, there is no public transport, he/she get on a car and drives away and crashes aonther car with a family in it, and kills them all, what would be the cause of this great harm?

So what do you say we just make everything that effects the mind illegal. Yup, let's go ahead and ban alcohol, and caffeine, and prescription painkillers, and anti-depressants, and so on. After all, every single one of these has caused more physical harm, dependence, and deaths than cannabis.

Now you are reaching here, what we have discussed (read earlier post) is that doctors use drugs that affect the mind as the last resort and that they have side effects that the doctor will have to address if the need is greater than undesirable side effect, by prescribing other drugs. HTC is prescribe to patients undergoing chemotherapy and sufferer of HIV. If a person does not has none of this illnes, they don't need it.

As for the machine workers, if they're high on the job they should be fired no doubt. Operating machinery high is just a bad idea and could get somebody hurt. Just like if you were trying to do it drunk, though alcohol has a much greater effect.

I discussed this when assessing the cost of legalization, folks in here tell us that the government is loosing money by not legalizing this lucrative trade. Replacing these workers is expensive and I think that the cost put on employer and the health system is grater than fighting it, this would have help me when I was arguing this. Thanks.

On the other hand, if they failed a drug test because of an after-dinner smoke, what good is firing them going to do?

It called duty of care, if someone in authority know of a worker returning a positive test (under the influence of drug known to impair judgement) and does not send that person home, the boss is liable. And that is another cost to be added, thanks again.

So long as they aren't baked at work it shouldn't affect productivity or safety or anything. Having THC in your system doesn't mean it's affecting your brain at all anymore. I have yet to find any way somebody could stay high for more than a day, so somebody doing something that hurts nobody in the privacy of their own home shouldn't be a problem.

How do you figure this out? HTC is store in body fat, the body is constantly turning fat into energy specially during physical activities such as working, what gives pleasure to the user of drugs is the production of dopamine that act as a reward for the HTC that the receptors in the brain get, this receptor can wait to get another shot of the drug, if it is denied withdrawal symptoms set in.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting people should get high all the time. If people shouldn't wander the streets drunk, they probably shouldn't do it high. Same with driving, or operating heavy machinery. Hey, if somebody commits a crime high, go ahead and make it a stiffer penalty even.

So you agree that marijuana isn’t victimless? How does a person that have impaired judgement reason when it is enough? Do you n know how people become dependent on these substance ( caffeine, alcohol, nicotine, etc)?

You brought up how weed affects the brain. Let's look over some of those effects. First, it just messes around with receptors and chemistry and whatnot. Guess what, almost everything does. The quote also says it affects learning and problems solving, and sure, I'll agree. After all, Carl Sagan thought up tons of brilliant ideas stoned. Weed doesn't impair learning or problem solving, it just changes them. Ever wonder why so many artists and musicians get high? It's because it makes you think of your music in a different way, and find new ways to go about things.

That;s the thing with these drugs, they heighten the moods that are already there, that is why if they use when the mood is happy, they get happier, if it is sadness, they get sadder, is they are shy then get bold in their action, if is anger they get angrier.
The most common arguments to justify heinous crimes is. I was not myself, I was under the influence of this or that

 

[BucephalusBB]

When a person is high reality is distorted and judgement impaired, perceived abilities are heighten, so chances are that whatever that person saw as a limits no longer exist. Let say that the person is shy and it has an amorous interest, but could never get the courage to tell her/him, let say that the other person lives miles away, there is no public transport, he/she get on a car and drives away and crashes aonther car with a family in it, and kills them all, what would be the cause of this great harm?

Definatelly the person who knows he shouldn't smoke and drive, just like any other knows you shouldn't drink and drive.

 

[emiliano]

He knew he could have his attacks when using marihuana. Marihuana isn't addictive enough to stop yourself when needed. His attack was his own fault.

This is debatable, what about the seductive teacher polluting all areas of society? Those that present this drug a medicine? Harmless and fun? Having no consequences? If legalized it will be advertise, right? Even now that is illegal, there is no shortage of promoters, I blame them and the dependant user is their victim. Imagine if it was a legal drug!.

 

[Father Heathen]

"If we decriminalized it, it would free up tons of much needed prison space, as well spend money on better things like catching rapists and murderers."
Ah, but in the same line of thought, why not legalize rape and murder?

lol, wow. I know you're not used to it, but you might want to try to think a little, kiddo. Especially before you say something embarrassingly stupid like that. Can you honestly not see the difference between smoking a joint, eating fast food or drinking a soda from something that victimizes and violates the rights of others such as theft, murder and rape? Evangelist Christianity much really rot the brain.

 

[emiliano]

Definatelly the person who knows he shouldn't smoke and drive, just like any other knows you shouldn't drink and drive.

Once a pothead get his first joint, his/her judgement is impaired, how is he/she going to know that he/she shouldn't smoke and drive?

 

[Father Heathen]

blame them and the dependant user is their victim.

You cannot develop a physical dependency on cannabis. I'm afraid I trust scientists over evangelists, since the former does more research and is more educated than the latter.

Imagine if it was a legal drug!.

It wouldn't be as near as bad as the drugs that already are legal, caffeine, alcohol and tobacco.

 

[Father Heathen]

Once a pothead get his first joint, his/her judgement is impaired, how is he/she going to know that he/she shouldn't smoke and drive?

Btw, merely smoking a joint doesn't make one a "pothead" any more than merely sipping a fine wine makes one a raging alcoholic.

 

[BucephalusBB]

Once a pothead get his first joint, his/her judgement is impaired, how is he/she going to know that he/she shouldn't smoke and drive?

Because his world gets a lot less purple and elephants than you think... :sarcastic
We are talking about marihuana here, not acid..

Edit: Wait a minute, What do you think marihuana does to your head?
Question applies to Darksun as well btw...

 

[Stellify]

Once a pothead get his first joint, his/her judgement is impaired, how is he/she going to know that he/she shouldn't smoke and drive?

You present the effects of marijuana on cognitive functioning as though the person loses all control over themselves.
Why is that?

Also, as someone said earlier, someone having their "first joint" doesn't make them a pothead. I think you're exaggerating a bit much.

 

[Zephyr]

Zephyr,

When a person is high reality is distorted and judgement impaired, perceived abilities are heighten, so chances are that whatever that person saw as a limits no longer exist. Let say that the person is shy and it has an amorous interest, but could never get the courage to tell her/him, let say that the other person lives miles away, there is no public transport, he/she get on a car and drives away and crashes aonther car with a family in it, and kills them all, what would be the cause of this great harm?

The idiot, for trying to drive high. When people get high, they don't go off on crazy stupid adventures like this unless they are already a complete idiot. I wonder, what exactly do you think weed does to the brain? I have never gotten high and thought "hey I should go operate heavy machinery". The stupidest thing I ever did high was go to the grocery store a few miles away because I needed habanero peppers for my sandwich. Even while blasted, I still had enough sense to hoof it, because I knew driving baked would be stupid and dangerous. It doesn't matter how high you are, weed isn't going to make you lose the ability to think.

Now you are reaching here, what we have discussed (read earlier post) is that doctors use drugs that affect the mind as the last resort and that they have side effects that the doctor will have to address if the need is greater than undesirable side effect, by prescribing other drugs. HTC is prescribe to patients undergoing chemotherapy and sufferer of HIV. If a person does not has none of this illnes, they don't need it.

THC. It's THC. So I'm guessing you've never used spirits to calm an upset stomach then?

I discussed this when assessing the cost of legalization, folks in here tell us that the government is loosing money by not legalizing this lucrative trade. Replacing these workers is expensive and I think that the cost put on employer and the health system is grater than fighting it, this would have help me when I was arguing this. Thanks.

It called duty of care, if someone in authority know of a worker returning a positive test (under the influence of drug known to impair judgement) and does not send that person home, the boss is liable. And that is another cost to be added, thanks again.

So by this logic if a boss ever finds out that any of his workers like to go to the bar on weekends they should be fired too, right? After all, if they drink sometimes they probably come to work drunk too eh?

How do you figure this out? HTC is store in body fat, the body is constantly turning fat into energy specially during physical activities such as working, what gives pleasure to the user of drugs is the production of dopamine that act as a reward for the HTC that the receptors in the brain get, this receptor can wait to get another shot of the drug, if it is denied withdrawal symptoms set in.

THC is stored in body fat, but at that point it's being broken down and no longer is affecting the brain. How do I figure this? Well, THC can be stored for over a week easily, yet I have never, EVER, seen a stoner be high for longer than a few hours, despite the knowledge that even when sober there is THC in their fat. Because, see, when something is in the fat, it means it's busy and isn't getting to the brain. Also, Cannabis isn't physically addictive, so I have no idea what you're talking about with withdrawal symptoms.

So you agree that marijuana isn’t victimless? How does a person that have impaired judgement reason when it is enough? Do you n know how people become dependent on these substance ( caffeine, alcohol, nicotine, etc)?

First, all 3 of those substances can cause a physical dependency, complete with withdrawals. Cannabis does not. You seem to think it is much more powerful of a chemical than it actually is. This isn't Reefer Madness here.

That;s the thing with these drugs, they heighten the moods that are already there, that is why if they use when the mood is happy, they get happier, if it is sadness, they get sadder, is they are shy then get bold in their action, if is anger they get angrier.
The most common arguments to justify heinous crimes is. I was not myself, I was under the influence of this or that

I agree that it will make a happy person happier, but angrier? Are you kidding me? If somebody was angry and smoked up, he'd have trouble staying angry if he tried. Same with the sadness. THC causes euphoria, not a upsizing of emotions. After all, if it just made emotions more extreme, what kind of crazy doctor would even think of giving it for severe anxiety problems?



I think the overall issue here is that you seem to think that cannabis use completely obliterates people's judgement. The effects on judgement are miniscule compared to with alcohol. I have never seen somebody get in a fight while on cannabis. I've never seen anybody puke his guts out and start driving on cannabis. I've never seen somebody living on the streets begging for money to buy more cannabis to fight off withdrawal. A lot of your arguments would fit much better with stuff like amphetamines or opiates or...hey, alcohol, but for cannabis? Everything you've been saying wouldn't sound out of place in an obscure sequel to a certain 1936 exploitation film.

 

[Saw11_2000]

Legalize everything and save $70 billion a year. Look at the Swiss.

 

[DarkSun]

Evangelist Christianity much really rot the brain.

Sorry, I couldn't help myself.

 

[DarkSun]

This is debatable, what about the seductive teacher polluting all areas of society? Those that present this drug a medicine? Harmless and fun? Having no consequences? If legalized it will be advertise, right? Even now that is illegal, there is no shortage of promoters, I blame them and the dependant user is their victim. Imagine if it was a legal drug!.

My brother hasn't smoked marijuana or tobacco for almost two weeks now. Admittedly, he's saying that the cigarette cravings are much harder to deal with....

 

[DarkSun]

Edit: Wait a minute, What do you think marihuana does to your head?
Question applies to Darksun as well btw...

It changes the serotonin and endorphin levels in various parts in your brain. When you're getting high, the pleasure centres are affected to produce and incredible feeling. When you're coming down, dopamine may be produced by the thalamus to help re-establish chemical equilibrium.

How that process effects each individual will differ depending on their original chemical make-up.

No, you're right, you're probably not likely to be seeing little purple elephants everywhere. But with prolonged use, there are some studies that say that people will obtain a mental illness because of all of the cr*p they've been putting their brain through.

 

[BucephalusBB]

No, you're right, you're probably not likely to be seeing little purple elephants everywhere.

No, not "probably"...
You will certainly not see purple elephants or anything close.
For that to happen your mind needs to be completelly wrong allready. So wrong that you know it. And then any substance gets an entire different level and no longer fits in the "legalizing" story.

 

[DarkSun]

No, not "probably"...
You will certainly not see purple elephants or anything close.
For that to happen your mind needs to be completelly wrong allready. So wrong that you know it. And then any substance gets an entire different level and no longer fits in the "legalizing" story.

Oh, look, it's a leprechaun.

 

[BucephalusBB]

Oh, look, it's a leprachaun.

No Darksun, you need better/worse stuff to see leprachauns as well

 

[DarkSun]

No Darksun, you need better/worse stuff to see leprachauns as well

But it was right THERE. I'm telling the truth.

I think it was on its way to the sugar-plum forest.

Edit:

Yeah, anyway. If not schizophrenia, then what about depression? You've got to admit that the regular use of any substance that has as much affect as marijuana can't be good for you.

 

[BucephalusBB]

that has as much affect as marijuana can't be good for you.

I think this is where we differ a bit Darksun. But ofcourse, you have no idea what you really feel and I cling to much to my own experiences.
But I really really think that in your thoughts the world becomes a new one with marihuana. But that drugs just isn't that strong. It does not have that much effect as you are thinking.

 

[BucephalusBB]

O, I agree that it does not have to be good for you. But I think it's up to the people themselves to decide and not the government. Marihuana isn't the kind of threat to human kind as harder drugs would be.