Legalize Marijuana?

[Shadow Wolf]

I only wish I could share my personal experiences. Actually, the other day I had a great idea for a short movie. Basically, film the life of a man who has it made, and then becomes horribly addicted to pot, and how it destroys his life. Although the effects of the pot would be more like crack or heroin, since that is apparently what some people still believe today. And following the film would be an educational video about pot, with real statistics and facts, about what marijuana really does, and just how unfair it is to have it illegal, and the numerous new markets that would be created from the various products that can be produced from cannabis.

 

[Zephyr]

emiliano:
I would like to hear what you have to say about alcohol and its state of legalization. If you would, please address its addictive qualities, potential for severe or fatal withdrawal and its potential for abuse. Please compare it with marijuana. How would you reconcile the legalization or illegalization of the the two? Should alcohol be illegal too? Why or why not?

And to further this, if there was any sort of drug test for alcohol that was as effective as tests for cannabis (that is, you can still detect even days after use), would you fire any employees who tested positive for it, even if they never showed up drunk on the job? If not, why would you do that to people who smoke on their own time?

 

[emiliano]

TurkeyOnRye,

emiliano:
I would like to hear what you have to say about alcohol and its state of legalization.

What can any one say, except that is a bad decision, but as you surely know it is marketed in the same way as marijuana, it is advertised as been good for your health and that it make you feel good. And it was legalised for the same economical reason and now there are people that spend more than 50% of their earning on alcohol, most of it price is excises imposed by the government.

If you would, please address its addictive qualities, potential for severe or fatal withdrawal and its potential for abuse.

All of this applies to dope, so what's your point? Aug. 8, 2003 (Toronto) — Evidence is mounting for a true withdrawal syndrome that occurs after cessation of regular, heavy use of marijuana.
Although the consequences of withdrawal from marijuana are not as severe as those seen with other drugs such as cocaine or heroin, they are still clinically significant and worthy of assessment, said Alan Budney, PhD, associate professor of psychology and psychiatry at the University of Vermont in Burlington.
Log In Problems

Please compare it with marijuana. How would you reconcile the legalization or illegalization of the the two? Should alcohol be illegal too? Why or why not?

It should be ilegal because it messes with the CNS and it takes more than 12 hours to be excreted by the body. Alcohol should be used as fuel, the medicinal substances extracted and sold on prescription to those that have an illness that can be helped by it, the same goes for THC.

Marijuana addiction is a phenomenon experienced by more than 150,000 individuals each year who enter treatment for their proclaimed addiction to marijuana. Marijuana addiction is characterized as compulsive, often uncontrollable marijuana craving, seeking, and use, even when the individual knows that marijuana use is not in his best interest.
http://www.marijuanaaddiction.info/
Cannabinoid receptors are activated by a neurotransmitter called anandamide. Anandamide belongs to a group of chemicals called cannabinoids. THC is also a cannabinoid chemical. THC mimics the actions of anandamide, meaning that THC binds with cannabinoid receptors and activates neurons, which causes adverse effects on the mind and body.
http://health.howstuffworks.com/marijuana3.htm
Marijuana use impairs driving-related functions and is linked to a pattern of behaviors that leads to poor job performance, according to two NIDA-supported studies on the effects of marijuana on human performance. Findings from the studies were presented at NIDA's first National Conference on Marijuana Use.
http://www.drugabuse.gov/Nida_Notes/NNVol11N1/Marijuana.html

 

[Stellify]

What can any one say, except that is a bad decision, but as you surely know it is marketed in the same way as marijuana, it is advertised as been good for your health and that it make you feel good. And it was legalised for the same economical reason and now there are people that spend more than 50% of their earning on alcohol, most of it price is excises imposed by the government.

I've never seen alcohol advertised as good for your health. Have you really seen that?

I've seen it advertised as making you feel good. Because it can. If the advertisements are true, then why take issue with them? There are plenty of other adverts that show alcohol as being bad for your health and causing violence. You might as well take issue with those, too, since they are ALSO true. I think it's wrong to oppose advertisements that are true simply because they don't support your personal opinions.

There are other alcohol advertisements that are very misleading, though. And I don't care for those much due to their misleading properties..So if that's what you were talking about, then I'm more inclined to agree.

It should be ilegal because it messes with the CNS and it takes more than 12 hours to be excreted by the body. Alcohol should be used as fuel, the medicinal substances extracted and sold on prescription to those that have an illness that can be helped by it, the same goes for THC.

Everything messes with your CNS. And many good things take 12 hours to get out of your system. That's not any kind of argument for making marijuana illegal, imo. You could use that argument for most substances, good and bad, that are taken into the body.

Cannabinoid receptors are activated by a neurotransmitter called anandamide. Anandamide belongs to a group of chemicals called cannabinoids. THC is also a cannabinoid chemical. THC mimics the actions of anandamide, meaning that THC binds with cannabinoid receptors and activates neurons, which causes adverse effects on the mind and body.
http://health.howstuffworks.com/marijuana3.htm

Ok.....and? How is this proving marijuana to be bad? Lots of things bind with receptors in the brain and cause the release of different kinds of neurotransmitters.

Marijuana use impairs driving-related functions and is linked to a pattern of behaviors that leads to poor job performance, according to two NIDA-supported studies on the effects of marijuana on human performance. Findings from the studies were presented at NIDA's first National Conference on Marijuana Use.
http://www.drugabuse.gov/Nida_Notes/NNVol11N1/Marijuana.html

Considering that this study is what? Thirteen years old? I think you should find something a bit more recent.
I would like to point out that no one was arguing whether or not it was OK to smoke and drive...I think a number of people said that it was dangerous, actually.
Also would like to point out that, once again, this study is trying to assert nothing more than a correlation. Correlation, once again, is not causation.

 

[DarkSun]

Considering that this study is what? Thirteen years old? I think you should find something a bit more recent.

I would like to point out that no one was arguing whether or not it was OK to smoke and drive...I think a number of people said that it was dangerous, actually.

Do you think that much has changed in the past thirteen years, though? Surely that doesn't invalidate the study much.

And...

I can also name one of those people who said that they've done it anyway....

Also would like to point out that, once again, this study is trying to assert nothing more than a correlation. Correlation, once again, is not causation.

But you can't deny that in this case, the correlation is probably part of the cause, as well.

Kinda like this graph here:

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

But you can't deny that in this case, the correlation is probably part of the cause, as well.

Kinda like this graph here:

Actually, that's an example of lack of correlation and causation. Look at the X-axis scale on that graph.

 

[ranjana]

wouldnt it be a negative correlation?

 

[Zephyr]

wouldnt it be a negative correlation?

Yes, and a perfect example of correlation not equaling causation, unless of course you have been touched by his noodly appendage.

 

[DarkSun]

Actually, that's an example of lack of correlation and causation. Look at the X-axis scale on that graph.

Actually. That was an example of sarcasm.

Aren't I allowed to joke around on this thread? Pfft.

EDIT

Wait, hang on. Are you saying that a correlation doesn't exist with that graph? Because while there isn't a causal link, there's definitely a correlation. Look at it. It shows that the number of pirates world-wide is inversely proportional to mean global temperatures.

I was just joking around and showing that correlation does not always imply causation. I guess I didn't communicate well enough.

 

[Stellify]

Do you think that much has changed in the past thirteen years, though? Surely that doesn't invalidate the study much.

And...

I can also name one of those people who said that they've done it anyway....




But you can't deny that in this case, the correlation is probably part of the cause, as well.

When it comes to drug studies, thirteen years is a lot. Especially considering that drug studies tend to be incredibly biased.... When it comes to studies as supporting evidence in a debate, it's important to make sure they're recent enough, or at the very least have been peer-reviewed recently enough. When emiliano pulls multiple studies from a decade or two ago, it muddles things because a lot of studies are shown to be invalid within that amount of time, but we on the forum would have a really hard time figuring out if/how that was the case.
As for my nit-picking about correlation vs. causation, it just irritates me when people don't make the differentiation. Statistically significant correlations are useful and completely valid, but it's misleading if you present them as causal relationships.

Also, I was more taking issue with the last section of the study than the "smoking impairs driving" part. I think smoking and impaired driving are pretty much a given.

Kinda like this graph here:

Frubals
Lack of pirates linked to global warning lol.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Actually. That was an example of sarcasm.

Aren't I allowed to joke around on this thread? Pfft.

EDIT

Wait, hang on. Are you saying that a correlation doesn't exist with that graph? Because while there isn't a causal link, there's definitely a correlation. Look at it. It shows that the number of pirates world-wide is inversely proportional to mean global temperatures.

Not really. For one thing, the temperature-pirate curve's really U-shaped, not what they've shown: the second data point should be to the left of the first one, and the spacing on the X Axis doesn't really have any meaning: it's sure not linear, and it doesn't look like it's logarithmic. All they did was just drop the values into Excel and have it space the points out equally. That curve is meaningless.

I was just joking around and showing that correlation does not always imply causation. I guess I didn't communicate well enough.

That's okay.

The classic example is the very strong correlation between number of Baptist ministers and number of arrests for public drunkenness in the United States through the 19th Century.

 

[DarkSun]

Not really. For one thing, the temperature-pirate curve's really U-shaped, not what they've shown: the second data point should be to the left of the first one, and the spacing on the X Axis doesn't really have any meaning: it's sure not linear, and it doesn't look like it's logarithmic. All they did was just drop the values into Excel and have it space the points out equally. That curve is meaningless.

Maybe it's exponential? Meh. Who cares about the model. I don't have time to enter everything into excel and come up with the best R^2 value. The point is, as the number of pirates have decreased, temperatures have increased.

That's okay.

The classic example is the very strong correlation between number of Baptist ministers and number of arrests for public drunkenness in the United States through the 19th Century.

Hahahaha.

Wait. Wait. I have a better one.

As the human population has increased on earth, so have the number of human deaths.

Huh? What do you think? We should kill more people to lower the human mortality rate.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Maybe it's exponential? Meh. Who cares about the model. I don't have time to enter everything into excel and come up with the best R^2 value. The point is, as the number of pirates have decreased, temperatures have increased.

No! That's my whole point! Look at the first two points on the graph: the temperature went up, even though the number of pirates did as well! It only looks like a nice, continuous curve because they swapped the data points around.

Hahahaha.

Wait. Wait. I have a better one.

As the human population has increased on earth, so have the number of human deaths.

Huh? What do you think? We should kill more people to lower the human mortality rate.

Sounds logical to me... except I was thinking that we could kill people to raise the birth rate. Hmm.

 

[DarkSun]

No! That's my whole point! Look at the first two points on the graph: the temperature went up, even though the number of pirates did as well! It only looks like a nice, continuous curve because they swapped the data points around.

Yeah, well, if I went and conducted an experiment on Boyle's Law for example, I wouldn't get an exact fit for the model. I'd get a very close fit, but not an exact fit. That's just the way things work in real life.

Why other real-life models be any different? Just because of one small anomaly, that doesn't mean the entire correlation should be disregarded.

Sounds logical to me... except I was thinking that we could kill people to raise the birth rate. Hmm.

Hmmm... That might work too. What if we wiped out the elderly pensioners to lower tax?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Why is it all I see is claims of "people seeking rehab for weed addiction," yet I don't any numbers? And why exactly, am I too believe these people when they claim that when I know what they also claim about weed is a lie.
And again, how does weed smoking make you lazy and unmotivated, and Micheal Phelps won 8 Olympic medals? And many pot heads at work actually out perform the non pot heads, and get promoted more often. The speed freaks get further, and much faster, because they don't sleep and the move much faster than non speed freaks (mainly because my job is a perfect job for speed freaks.) And one girl, who is regarded as one of the faster counters in the state, cannot focus on counting unless she comes to work stoned. And as for the lazy stoners, they are the ones that are already very lazy when they are sober. My boss, who rarely ever gets a day off, and will work at least 70 hours a week, and keeps a blanket and pillow at the office because he sleeps there so much, smokes pot. He hasn't in a awhile, because he is going through custody battles with his step-grand daughter. And he is the type who would never in think about smoking with his grand daughter around. He is also the district manager for most of the state of Indiana for our company, and he sometimes fills in temporarily for other districts in neighboring states.

 

[England my lionheart]

There are many people from all walks of life who use Marijuana,from Professors CEOs and Politicians,Clergy etc,very few whilst they are at work and the reasons for this is obvious because they are not the Psychos that they are being portrayed as,like from the Movie Reefer Madness,i have yet to meet anybody who uses Marijuana who is Psychotic and i definately have'nt met one who is violent.

 

[emiliano]

It seems that for most people Psychosis=aggression/violence but is not the case. There are other effects that make the condition a dangerous and undesirable condition of the mind, in short it can be said the Psychosis is the lost of reality and it symptoms include:
Hallucinations (seeing, hearing feeling or tasting things that other people don’t)
Difficulty filtering stimulation from the environment
Delusions (false personal beliefs based on incorrect inferences about reality which are inconsistent with culture and previous beliefs, and which are firmly sustained in spite of evidence or proof to the contrary)
Confused thinking or speech
Difficulty doing ordinary things (often includes problems with memory, attention, putting thoughts together)
Inability telling what is real from what is not
Has any of the participant on this discussion worked with a marijuana user?
Some of the most common signs of psychosis that others may see include:
A dramatic deterioration in functioning at school or home
Social withdrawal
Dramatic changes in sleep pattern
Statements or behaviour that are bizarre and inconsistent with what’s going on around them
Psychotic people are not always violent, one of the effect of marijuana is the inhibition that produces in the user, they do and say things that they would not normally do, they take risk that they would not normally take, financial risk, health risk, take risk with their reputation etc.

 

[emiliano]

Shadow Wolf ,

Why is it all I see is claims of "people seeking rehab for weed addiction," yet I don't any numbers? And why exactly, am I too believe these people when they claim that when I know what they also claim about weed is a lie.
And again, how does weed smoking make you lazy and unmotivated, and Micheal Phelps won 8 Olympic medals?

Are you saying that weed gave him an unfair advantage?

And many pot heads at work actually out perform the non pot heads, and get promoted more often. The speed freaks get further, and much faster, because they don't sleep and the move much faster than non speed freaks (mainly because my job is a perfect job for speed freaks.) And one girl, who is regarded as one of the faster counters in the state, cannot focus on counting unless she comes to work stoned. And as for the lazy stoners, they are the ones that are already very lazy when they are sober. My boss, who rarely ever gets a day off, and will work at least 70 hours a week, and keeps a blanket and pillow at the office because he sleeps there so much, smokes pot. He hasn't in a awhile, because he is going through custody battles with his step-grand daughter. And he ild never in think about smoking with his grand daughter around.

What do you think of M. Phelp’s fall into disgrace? Do you think that he made a wise descision?

My boss, who rarely ever gets a day off, and will work at least 70 hours a week, and keeps a blanket and pillow at the office because he sleeps there so much, smokes pot. He hasn't in a awhile, because he is going through custody battles with his step-grand daughter. And he is the type who would never in think about smoking with his grand daughter around.

Why do you think that he doesn’t smoke weed when she is around? What is he afraid of? Is he ashamed?

 

[Zephyr]

Want to know why so many people go to rehab for weed? When people get busted for small possession charges, they'll often get an offer that if they go to rehab the charges will be reduced or dropped altogether. These people aren't going because they are addicted to marijuana. They're going because they don't want to go to jail.

 

[Stellify]

It seems that for most people Psychosis=aggression/violence but is not the case. There are other effects that make the condition a dangerous and undesirable condition of the mind, in short it can be said the Psychosis is the lost of reality and it symptoms include:
Hallucinations (seeing, hearing feeling or tasting things that other people don’t)
Difficulty filtering stimulation from the environment
Delusions (false personal beliefs based on incorrect inferences about reality which are inconsistent with culture and previous beliefs, and which are firmly sustained in spite of evidence or proof to the contrary)
Confused thinking or speech
Difficulty doing ordinary things (often includes problems with memory, attention, putting thoughts together)
Inability telling what is real from what is not

I would just like to note that not all of these symptoms are necessarily present, and they vary in degree. Also, if few enough are present and mild enough, then the person would not necessarily be diagnosed as psychotic.

Has any of the participant on this discussion worked with a marijuana user?
Some of the most common signs of psychosis that others may see include:
A dramatic deterioration in functioning at school or home
Social withdrawal
Dramatic changes in sleep pattern
Statements or behaviour that are bizarre and inconsistent with what’s going on around them
Psychotic people are not always violent, one of the effect of marijuana is the inhibition that produces in the user, they do and say things that they would not normally do, they take risk that they would not normally take, financial risk, health risk, take risk with their reputation etc.

I've worked with quite a few, and rather intimately. None showed any of the signs you are referring to (some even quite the opposite), unless it was caused by a pre-existing condition that was completely unrelated to their marijuana use. In most cases, smoking actually helped relieve these symptoms for them.

Why do you think that he doesn’t smoke weed when she is around? What is he afraid of? Is he ashamed?

If he's having a custody battle, it's important to make sure his record is as clean as can be. If the opposing claimant found out that he smoked, it would be used against him in the courts. I doubt it's because of any sense of shame.