Legalize Marijuana?

[DarkSun]

I think this is where we differ a bit Darksun. But ofcourse, you have no idea what you really feel and I cling to much to my own experiences.
But I really really think that in your thoughts the world becomes a new one with marihuana. But that drugs just isn't that strong. It does not have that much effect as you are thinking.

Read up a bit on Serendip's Exchange.

HOW DOES MARIJUANA AFFECT THE BRAIN? | Serendip's Exchange

 

[DarkSun]

O, I agree that it does not have to be good for you. But I think it's up to the people themselves to decide and not the government. Marihuana isn't the kind of threat to human kind as harder drugs would be.

No, but it's a fairly significant threat. And I'm going to have to disagree with you about your previous post where you said that everything would remain the same if marijuana were made legal.

Most of the people I've talked to say that the only reason they smoke cigarettes and not weed is because one is legal and one is not.

That kind of justification is called the "Duty System" were you perform an action as long as the law says it's okay. If the law turns around and says: "Okay, you can all smoke marijuana now," then people will eventually come to see less wrong with it, simply because it's now legal. If that doesn't happen with the current generation, then it almost certainly will in later generations as people gradually become desensitised to it.

So if there are only five or ten percent of marijuana users who react badly, then what do you think would happen sixty or seventy years after marijuana prohibition ends?

 

[BucephalusBB]

Read up a bit on Serendip's Exchange.

HOW DOES MARIJUANA AFFECT THE BRAIN? | Serendip's Exchange

I read the entire thing and stick to my statement. Nowhere in your artikel can you read that your vision becomes as blurred as you speak of.
The worst thing I just read is that after a high dosis people can't remember all commercials they saw.
They throw with a lot of words, but you can't get out of that story what I get out of yours.

 

[blackout]

I read the entire thing and stick to my statement. Nowhere in your artikel can you read that your vision becomes as blurred as you speak of.
The worst thing I just read is that after a high dosis people can't remember all commercials they saw.
They throw with a lot of words, but you can't get out of that story what I get out of yours.

That certainly qualifies as a good thing. :yes:

Point for legalization.

 

[DarkSun]

I read the entire thing and stick to my statement. Nowhere in your artikel can you read that your vision becomes as blurred as you speak of.
The worst thing I just read is that after a high dosis people can't remember all commercials they saw.
They throw with a lot of words, but you can't get out of that story what I get out of yours.

I just read it and it wasn't entirely accurate. Sorry, I just googled "Serendip Exchange" and that was the first thing that came up. I wasn't expecting it to be like that.

I'll look through some databases to find someone who knows what they're talking about.

Acute and chronic exposure to cannabinoids has been associated with cognitive deficits, a higher risk for schizophrenia and other drug abuse. However, the precise mechanism underlying such effects is not known. Preclinical studies suggest that cannabinoids modulate brain-derived neurotrophic factor (BDNF). Accordingly, we hypothesized that Delta(9)-tetrahydrocannabinol (Delta(9)-THC), the principal active component of cannabis, would alter BDNF levels in humans.

Healthy control subjects (n = 14) and light users of cannabis (n = 9) received intravenous administration of (0.0286 mg/kg) Delta(9)-THC in a double-blind, fixed order, placebo-controlled, laboratory study. Serum sampled at baseline, after placebo administration, and after Delta(9)-THC administration was assayed for BDNF using ELISA.


Delta(9)-THC increased serum BDNF levels in healthy controls but not light users of cannabis. Further, light users of cannabis had lower basal BDNF levels. Delta(9)-THC produced psychotomimetic effects, perceptual alterations, and "high" and spatial memory impairments.


The effects of socially relevant doses of cannabinoids on BDNF suggest a possible mechanism underlying the consequences of exposure to cannabis. This may be of particular importance for the developing brain and also in disorders believed to involve altered neurodevelopment such as schizophrenia. Larger studies to investigate the effects of cannabinoids on BDNF and other neurotrophins are warranted.

D'Souza, Deepak Cyril et al. (2009) "PSYCHOPHARMACOLOGY" P|569-578







Background: There is growing evidence that adolescence is a key period for neuronal maturation. Despite the high prevalence of marijuana use among adolescents and young adults in the United States and internationally, very little is known about its impact on the developing brain. Based on neuroimaging literature on normal brain developmental during adolescence, we hypothesized that individuals with heavy cannabis use (HCU) would have brain structure abnormalities in similar brain regions that undergo development during late adolescence, particularly the fronto-temporal connection.

Method: Fourteen young adult males in residential treatment for cannabis dependence and 14 age-matched healthy male control subjects were recruited. Patients had a history of HCU throughout adolescence; 5 had concurrent alcohol abuse. Subjects underwent structural and diffusion tensor magnetic resonance imaging. White matter integrity was compared between subject groups using voxelwise and fiber tractography analysis.


Results: Voxelwise and tractography analyses revealed that adolescents with HCU had reduced fractional anisotropy, increased radial diffusivity, and increased trace in the homologous areas known to be involved in ongoing development during late adolescence, particularly in the fronto-temporal connection via arcuate fasciculus.

Conclusions: Our results support the hypothesis that heavy cannabis use during adolescence may affect the trajectory of normal brain maturation. Due to concurrent alcohol consumption in five HCU subjects, conclusions from this study should be considered preliminary, as the DTI findings reported here may be reflective of the combination of alcohol and marijuana use. Further research in larger samples, longitudinal in nature, and controlling for alcohol consumption is needed to better understand the pathophysiology of the effect of cannabis on the developing brain. (c) 2008 Elsevier Ltd. All rights reserved.


Ashtari, Manzar. (2008) "JOURNAL OF PSYCHIATRIC RESEARCH". p|189-204






Cannabis consumption has varying effects over the whole life span, especially on achievements in the areas of schooling, professional life and performance in a social environment. Data from Studies oil remission from neurocognitive deficits following chronic cannabis consumption are ambiguous. The outcome range included everything from complete remission over considerable lasting deficits up to even chronic psychotic disorders. The data seem to be consistent however, when a differentiation between early begin of consumption (before the age of 16) and late begin of consumption is taken into account. Mainly those cannabis users with an early begin of consumption are prone to developing lasting neurocognitive deficits and even a decrease in grey Substance volume, as well as an increase in the risk of psychosis. The correlation of this outcome with cannabis Consumption during a phase of brain development that includes the consolidation of higher cognitive functions, awareness of social cues, planning of concepts and motivation as well as tools of functional control, is highly convincing. The endocannabinoid system reaches the point of highest receptor density during this age of 16/17 years, and many of the above-mentioned developmental processes are modulated by this system. A chronic damage to this system (e.g., down-regulation or desensitisation of CB1receptors by exogenous cannabinoids) therefore holds the potential for permanent neurophysiological as well as neurocognitive deficits, and also for the development of psychotic disorders.

Gudlowski, Y et al. (2008) "GESUNDHEITSWESEN" p|653-657






An increasing number of novel therapeutic agents are targeted at cannabinoid receptors. Drug development programmes of new cannabinoid drugs may be facilitated by the identification of useful biomarkers. This systemic literature review aims to assess the usefulness of direct biomarkers for the effects of cannabis and tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) in healthy volunteers. One hundred and sixty-five useful articles were found that investigated the acute effects of cannabis or THC on the central nervous system (CNS) and heart rate in healthy volunteers. Three hundred and eighteen tests (or test variants) were grouped in test clusters and functional domains, to allow their evaluation as a useful biomarker and to study their dose-response effects. Cannabis/THC affected a wide range of CNS domains. In addition to heart rate, subjective effects were the most reliable biomarkers, showing significant responses to cannabis in almost all studies. Some CNS domains showed indications of depression at lower and stimulation at higher doses. Subjective effects and heart rate are currently the most reliable biomarkers to study the effect of cannabis. Cannabis affects most CNS domains, but too many different CNS tests are used to quantify the drug-response relationships reliably. Test standardization, particularly in motor and memory domains, may reveal additional biomarkers.

Zuurman, Lineke et al. (2009) "BRITISH JOURNAL OF CLINICAL PHARMACOLOGY" p| 5-21

Looking at that, it seems to me as if people don't really know for sure what the exact effect that marijuana has on the brain, let alone the developing brain. Maybe if adolescants stayed away from it, things would be okay... But if marijuana also aggravates mental illness, then maybe not.

 

[Stellify]

But it was right THERE. I'm telling the truth.

I think it was on its way to the sugar-plum forest.

Edit:

Yeah, anyway. If not schizophrenia, then what about depression? You've got to admit that the regular use of any substance that has as much affect as marijuana can't be good for you.

I've had many friends with depression that kind of self-medicated with marijuana. It helped ease their depression, kept them away from suicidal thoughts that would otherwise occur, etc. I've actually even known schizophrenics who smoked marijuana solely because it helped ease their symptoms...it stopped the voices they would hear, it lessened the intense anxiety they normally felt, etc.

Not saying this was the RIGHT thing for them to do, and I've encouraged them to get proper treatment for their symptoms, but it DID help a little. For the friends who didn't have health insurance and couldn't afford doctor appointments and medication, it was really their only option for some relief.

I should also note that for all of them, it was pretty obvious that the depression/schizophrenia came BEFORE the smoking....it wasn't caused by it. (Not saying it never happens, just in these particular cases the illness definitely came before the drug)

 

[Stellify]

Looking at that, it seems to me as if people don't really know for sure what the exact effect that marijuana has on the brain, let alone the developing brain. Maybe if adolescants stayed away from it, things would be okay... But if marijuana also aggravates mental illness, then maybe not.

I think that if marijuana were to be legalized, it should certainly have restrictions on when someone was legally old enough to use it...Like with our legal drinking age being 21 here in the states, there are studies to back up the idea that alcohol has less of a negative effect on the brain after that age because of the pattern of development.
It's something important to consider, at the very least.

 

[DarkSun]

I think that if marijuana were to be legalized, it should certainly have restrictions on when someone was legally old enough to use it...Like with our legal drinking age being 21 here in the states, there are studies to back up the idea that alcohol has less of a negative effect on the brain after that age because of the pattern of development.
It's something important to consider, at the very least.

I agree that if it were made legal, there should definitely be restrictions on it....

And I think we should probably know more about it before even considering making it legal.

But if it is made legal, how would you know for certain which age would be safe?

 

[Stellify]

I agree that if it were made legal, there should definitely be restrictions on it....

And I think we should probably know more about it before even considering making it legal.

But if it is made legal, how would you know for certain which age would be safe?

I would imagine they would follow the same kinds of guidelines they do for alcohol. Look at the brain's development and figure out when exposure to marijuana would stop having adverse effects on the developing brain. I I were to make a guess, I would think it would be about the same age as for alcohol.

I'm not a brain specialist or anything, though..That's just my guess. I can't imagine they would legalize it without looking into that, though.

 

[DarkSun]

I would imagine they would follow the same kinds of guidelines they do for alcohol. Look at the brain's development and figure out when exposure to marijuana would stop having adverse effects on the developing brain. I I were to make a guess, I would think it would be about the same age as for alcohol.

I'm not a brain specialist or anything, though..That's just my guess. I can't imagine they would legalize it without looking into that, though.

M'kay, and if it were made legal, what would you suggest it should be used for?

Recreation, or for medicinal purposes?

 

[Stellify]

M'kay, and if it were made legal, what would you suggest it should be used for?

Recreation, or for medicinal purposes?

Medicinal purposes, certainly.

Recreational purposes as well, assuming we don't have some uber-significant, undeniable study pop up that shows it's just not workable.

Not sure if this makes a difference or not, but I don't use marijuana. So my opinions aren't from some personal urge to be able to smoke more freely or what have you

 

[BucephalusBB]

But if it is made legal, how would you know for certain which age would be safe?

Here in the Netherlands the age of alcohol applies. So here that is 18 years old.

 

[BucephalusBB]

M'kay, and if it were made legal, what would you suggest it should be used for?

Recreation, or for medicinal purposes?

Both.. But if you enable the first, you cannot stop the second..

 

[emiliano]

You cannot develop a physical dependency on cannabis. I'm afraid I trust scientists over evangelists, since the former does more research and is more educated than the latter.
It wouldn't be as near as bad as the drugs that already are legal, caffeine, alcohol and tobacco.

Every pothead was once an occasional smoker of marijuana. None of them start at a joint a day, but that is were most of them end up.
Aug. 8, 2003 (Toronto) — Evidence is mounting for a true withdrawal syndrome that occurs after cessation of regular, heavy use of marijuana.
Although the consequences of withdrawal from marijuana are not as severe as those seen with other drugs such as cocaine or heroin, they are still clinically significant and worthy of assessment, said Alan Budney, PhD, associate professor of psychology and psychiatry at the University of Vermont in Burlington.
Dr. Budney spoke here today at the 111th annual conference of the American Psychological Association. He has done extensive research on dependency and withdrawal associated with heavy marijuana use. His interest in the topic was triggered by the fact that increasing numbers of people with marijuana dependency were actively seeking treatment and that many complained of withdrawal problems.
The question in the medical community has been whether there is indeed a true withdrawal syndrome, he said.
Using DSM-IV criteria to rate the dependency level of these patients and comparing it with those dependent on cocaine was revealing. Heavy marijuana users had on average 6.3 out of 9 criteria compared with 7.7 for cocaine users.
"You only need three to meet dependence. Although the dependence is lower than cocaine, its still pretty substantial," Dr. Budney said.
A previous short-term study by his lab revealed that daily users who quit for as few as three days displayed numerous withdrawal symptoms, including cravings, irritability, restlessness, headaches, loss of appetite, and depression.
http://canadiancpd.medscape.com/viewarticle/459885
There are no many addicts that don’t think that they can handle the drug that they are addicted to, the I can quit anytime a want syndrome is a popular one yet there are more and more of them seeking help and quitting and relapsing, I have to agree with those that say that we are throwing to much money onto this problem, why do these people want to make it more affordable? Why do they want to have more trader into the game? I think that it is so that they can ingest more of the stuff. If they aren’t pot-heads they don’t need to pay high prices cause they can do with out it at will, consumption decreases, prices come down, what make it so pensive? I say it is because there is an ever increasing demand for it, an ever increasing number of accacional user turning into full blown addict, that why.

 

[gnomon]

I have yet to see anyone opposed to the legalization/decriminalization of marijuana address the issues of current drug policies.

I wonder why?

 

[DallasApple]

A previous short-term study by his lab revealed that daily users who quit for as few as three days displayed numerous withdrawal symptoms, including cravings, irritability, restlessness, headaches, loss of appetite, and depression.

You can DIE from withdrawels from alcohol.DIE.As far as I know it is the most potentially lethal drug to withdraw from if you are "abusing" it.Regularly and long term.

So if that is the "standard" then alcohol should in fact be the illegal one.Not pot.

I never could get it.Why pot is illegal and alcohol isnt.Or if alcohol is legal why isnt pot?

Love

Dallas

 

[DallasApple]

Oh and I want to say..Im not "recommending" pot smoking.Im not saying "no harm done".It fries your brain cells..its bad for your heart and lungs and other organs.But as far as neurological and cognitive affects while drunk or high? I see alcohol as the more dangerous of the two.Including potential for violent behavior.

I see alcohol as "more lethal"(potentialy) and way more addictive(potentially).And its legal.

Love

Dallas

 

[TurkeyOnRye]

emiliano:
I would like to hear what you have to say about alcohol and its state of legalization. If you would, please address its addictive qualities, potential for severe or fatal withdrawal and its potential for abuse. Please compare it with marijuana. How would you reconcile the legalization or illegalization of the the two? Should alcohol be illegal too? Why or why not?

 

[Jeremy Mason]

We all know that there is immorality in our countries, why add to it? Don't we have enough of it?

How am I adding to it?

Yes, we have enough immorality. How does this contribute to the OP?

 

[Stellify]

I have yet to see anyone opposed to the legalization/decriminalization of marijuana address the issues of current drug policies.

I wonder why?

My guess is that they either have no idea what the policies are to begin with (and therefore don't realize they pose a problem), or they DO realize what a problem they are. In which case they can't bring them up without hurting their own arguments.

...Sound about right?