Legalize Marijuana?

[DallasApple]

You don't get it do you,Marijuana is the last thing you would tuen to if you had to do anything energetic,People who use Marijuana use it to chill out or be creative with Music or Art not Swim the fastest.

What?..You mean if you were defending your heavy weight boxing champion of the world title you wouldnt at least take a couple of deep bong hits of hydroponic before you stepped into the ring?

O.K ..so then everyone here is a liar then.

Love

Dallas

 

[England my lionheart]

What?..You mean if you were defending your heavy weight boxing champion of the world title you wouldnt at least take a couple of deep bong hits of hydroponic before you stepped into the ring?

O.K ..so then everyone here is a liar then.

Love

Dallas

LOL ok maybe one Ha lol

 

[gnomon]

So all this propaganda on the benefits of marijuana are just BS?
The push for legalization has other motives and agenda? What could it be?

You mean other than the fact that the death toll related to the drug war in Mexico was over 6,000 last year. That the rate of violence in Mexico due to the actions of drug cartels is still increasing and that it is quite feasible that the Mexican government is literally losing the war meaning that the stability of the nation will fracture.

Right next door to the United States with the largest consumer population despite are very strict drug laws to protect people from all that has been put forth so far as evidence not to legalize marijuana is that if approx. a million people smoke it habitually there is possibly a small probability a few of them will develop schizophrenic symptoms.

That's the weakest argument anyone has ever put forth for anything. Let's doom millions for the sake of protecting a handful of people with a pre-existing condition increasing their probability of developing treatable symptoms of a mental illness.

These last several pages that moved the debate from actual costs and benefits to this ludicrous argument over the tenuous marijuana/schizophrenia connection has to be one of the longest off topic debates I've ever read.

 

[Zephyr]

What?..You mean if you were defending your heavy weight boxing champion of the world title you wouldnt at least take a couple of deep bong hits of hydroponic before you stepped into the ring?

O.K ..so then everyone here is a liar then.

Love

Dallas

That is a bad idea. Sure it might dull the pain, but trust me, if you are ever in any sort of fight, even the slightest ill effects on your balance or reaction time outweighs any benefit it could give you. It's the same reason you shouldn't drive high. Who cares if the hits hurt less if there's a whole lot more of them?

 

[DallasApple]

These last several pages that moved the debate from actual costs and benefits to this ludicrous argument over the tenuous marijuana/schizophrenia connection has to be one of the longest off topic debates I've ever read.

And what about all the people that get thrown in the slammer for having a joint?Sure they shoud know better its "illegal".

But WHY is it illegal???

And that whole "schizophrenia" claim..WHAT about ALCOHOL!!..Alcohol "psychosis" .."black outs"..chronic alcohol use induced heart/liver and brain damage.. Acohol related crimes...

I can stand in public with a beer..it doesnt matter if Im DYING of liver disease..or I have diabetes...or I have major depression and the alcohol makes it worse.While Im drinking my beer I smoke on a cigarrette!! It doesnt matter if I have asmthma and it aggravates it..it doesnt matter if I have heart disease..I can SMOKE ..So I can drink alcohol..and I can smoke nicotene.

But I will go to JAIL if I have a joint.Even if Im perfectly healthy.

It makes ZERO sense to me.

Love

Dallas

 

[DallasApple]

That is a bad idea. Sure it might dull the pain, but trust me, if you are ever in any sort of fight, even the slightest ill effects on your balance or reaction time outweighs any benefit it could give you. It's the same reason you shouldn't drive high. Who cares if the hits hurt less if there's a whole lot more of them?

I was being sarcastic..No athlete in their right mind..Would smoke pot before (or in order to be) at peak performance.

Just like they wouldnt get drunk..either..

Love

Dallas

 

[DallasApple]

You mean other than the fact that the death toll related to the drug war in Mexico was over 6,000 last year. That the rate of violence in Mexico due to the actions of drug cartels is still increasing and that it is quite feasible that the Mexican government is literally losing the war meaning that the stability of the nation will fracture.

They are killing each other over pot?(sorry for my ignorance)

Love

Dallas

 

[gnomon]

They are killing each other over pot?(sorry for my ignorance)

Love

Dallas

A couple of years ago the Mexican government vastly increased its police activities to directly combat the drug cartels resulting in more high profile arrests creating a power vacuum. These vacuums create an environment of more intensified violence as cartels fight each other for control. The deaths in 2008 as a result of this violence was double that of 2007 and expected to keep rising.

Kidnappings are also on the rise as well as crossing the U.S./Mexican borders. The kidnapping and murders of American citizens in border towns has increased as well.

How to stop the drug wars | The Economist

This is one of the better and more recent summaries.

Just googling mexico drug war 2008 will pull up many articles from the NYT, LATimes, USAToday, Newsweek and many other MSM reports all throughout the year regarding this issue.

 

[DallasApple]

A couple of years ago the Mexican government vastly increased its police activities to directly combat the drug cartels resulting in more high profile arrests creating a power vacuum. These vacuums create an environment of more intensified violence as cartels fight each other for control. The deaths in 2008 as a result of this violence was double that of 2007 and expected to keep rising.

Kidnappings are also on the rise as well as crossing the U.S./Mexican borders. The kidnapping and murders of American citizens in border towns has increased as well.

How to stop the drug wars | The Economist

This is one of the better and more recent summaries.

Just googling mexico drug war 2008 will pull up many articles from the NYT, LATimes, USAToday, Newsweek and many other MSM reports all throughout the year regarding this issue.

Are we talking about all drugs?(I briefed your link I will read it fully later and thank you)..

Love

Dallas

 

[gnomon]

Are we talking about all drugs?(I briefed your link I will read it fully later and thank you)..

Love

Dallas

I'll have to check some sources but I think marijuana is the prime crop coming out of Mexico. Heroin is still primarily derived out of Afghanistan and cocaine still from South American nations.

The Economist is focusing more on the soft drugs which definitely includes marijuana and ecstacy and for many groups would include cocaine as well. Heroin, crystal meth, strong hallucinogens...those types of hard drugs would remain illegal.

The logic is that since soft drug use is already greater than that of hard drug use and users of hard drugs would have an option to move towards safer drugs with less severe consequences. Overall, money saved on prison institutions, arms, payrolling drug warriors and earned from tax on the sales and manufacture of soft drugs, many of which would be home grown as well, would open up greater treatment options for all drug users while at the same time driving down not all but the vast majority of income for drug cartels.

Any transition would be difficult. There could be a spike in drug related deaths. There could be a spike in drug use among all ages. The cold fact is that most of these would be directly related to the individual responsible for using the drugs as opposed to the collateral damage now associated with violent drug cartels and gangs.

 

[DallasApple]

I'll have to check some sources but I think marijuana is a prime crop coming out of Mexico. Heroin is still primarily derived out of Afghanistan and cocaine still from South American nations.

The Economist is focusing more on the soft drugs which definitely includes marijuana and ecstacy and for many groups would include cocaine as well. Heroin, crystal meth, strong hallucinogens...those types of hard drugs would remain illegal.

The logic is that since soft drug use is already greater than that of hard drug use and users of hard drugs would have an option to move towards safer drugs with less severe consequences. Overall, money saved on prison institutions, arms, payrolling drug warriors and earned from tax on the sales and manufacture of soft drugs, many of which would be home grown as well, would open up greater treatment options for all drug users while at the same time driving down not all but the vast majority of income for drug cartels.

Any transition would be difficult. There could be a spike in drug related deaths. There could be a spike in drug use among all ages. The cold fact is that most of these would be directly related to the individual responsible for using the drugs as opposed to the collateral damage now associated with violent drug cartels and gangs.

I see..And I agree..the exception..I do not see ectasy as a "soft" drug.Unless its changed over the years ..its in the line with hard core drugs.

But I think pot being legalized..(even with the pit falls) is a better and more realistic solution to minimizing crimes and deaths due to its very existence.

Love

DAllas

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

My own experiences have been bad ones, I had to fire a guy on the request of the crew that I was supervising, this poor fellow use to go home for his meals break and had a joint, then return to work, this crew was assembling big mounds, so big and heavy that were put in position by over-head cranes, some did their job on the to top and other on the bottom of it, he kept on dropping his tool on the head of the of the workers on the bottom that came to complain, he was counselled given time to correct this habit of his to no avail, got three warning and he was dismissed.

Wait... didn't you say before that you're a psychiatric nurse or something? Why would you be assembling "big mounds" in a psych hospital?

 

[J Bryson]

Wait... didn't you say before that you're a psychiatric nurse or something? Why would you be assembling "big mounds" in a psych hospital?

Budget cutbacks. The patients don't get rooms, so they huddle up to keep warm.

 

[TurkeyOnRye]

Emiliano?

But the alternative, legal drugs, seems frightening. More people might try them. More might get addicted. At the turn of the last century, drugs were legal. Bayer aspirin had heroin in it. Some wine contained coca leaves. Some Americans got addicted, and people didn't like that. So politicians passed drug laws.

But what good have they done? Now we have drug crime, corrupt vice cops, terrible role models for poor children, a vicious underworld that funds terrorists-and people still get addicted. The drug laws made life worse.

...

In Holland, marijuana has been officially "tolerated" since 1979. Is everyone getting stoned? No. The Dutch are actually less likely to smoke marijuana than Americans. Thirty-eight percent of American adolescents have smoked pot, while in Holland, only 20% have. When we taped in the marijuana shops in Amsterdam, half the people we talked to turned out to be American. Legalization took the mystique away from the drug. The Dutch minister of health said, "We've succeeded in making pot boring."

-Give Me a Break, John Stossel

 

[emiliano]

Wait... didn't you say before that you're a psychiatric nurse or something? Why would you be assembling "big mounds" in a psych hospital?

Yes I did, I have a rather long employment history to long to put in here, it may be to boring for the members, I migrated to this country 38 year ago, and was a nurse, I came to this country with little English knowledge so what was on offer was low pay for very hard uninterested work, so I had a series of varied jobs, back home I study electronic as well as training as a nurse, I made an application to the Sydney Technical collage 3 years after my arrival and became a qualified Telegraph mechanic, with the rapid technological advances in this field, that became obsolete many years ago. I have never been unemployed and never got the same pay as others, employer in here are impressed by those that take the opportunities for improvement that this society offers to those willing to do hard work, I have been a store manager, a production supervisor, assistant to factory manager and now got back to nursing as they have achieved excellent pay and conditions, is very good now, I started in developmental disability and moved to mental health, we are offered training to do this and although I am 61 years of age I never refuse an opportunity to improve my present skills, however it seem that I have done it again I meant to say moulds, although I am not sure what part of the story you question. I hope that this isn’t boring to you.

 

[DarkSun]

I think that if marijuana were to be legalized, it should certainly have restrictions on when someone was legally old enough to use it...Like with our legal drinking age being 21 here in the states, there are studies to back up the idea that alcohol has less of a negative effect on the brain after that age because of the pattern of development.
It's something important to consider, at the very least.

Do you think that marijuana will ever be as accepted as tobacco? Because if that becomes the case, then do you think that teenagers could be influenced by their parents to smoke weed, as they are currently with alcohol or tobacco? Maybe they would want to rebel, so making weed accepted and more readily available would make it easier for them.

If that ever came to pass, their minds would be negatively affected.

And I'm still not convinced that THC is completely harmless to grown adults, either.

Here in the Netherlands the age of alcohol applies. So here that is 18 years old.

But the brain is still developing at eighteen.

 

[emiliano]

Emiliano?

TurkeyOnRye,

But what good have they done? Now we have drug crime, corrupt vice cops, terrible role models for poor children, a vicious underworld that funds terrorists-and people still get addicted. The drug laws made life worse.

What have they done? Let see, create employment for policeman, lobbyists, lift the profile of politician, but what causes all these evils is the lust for pleasure and entertainment of this generation, the lack of courage of the present generation, what got us where we are is their insatiable crave for these things not the legality or illegality of the use of drugs, making it acceptable and easy to obtain would add to the problem. In Australia we are in campaign to get people to quit cigarettes smoking, it is costing hips and is working, so there is little chance of this happening to us, leave it to the Holland and US, we say not thanks, we don’t even want tobacco smoking in here.:shout

 

[England my lionheart]

TurkeyOnRye,

What have they done? Let see, create employment for policeman, lobbyists, lift the profile of politician, but what causes all these evils is the lust for pleasure and entertainment of this generation, the lack of courage of the present generation, what got us where we are is their insatiable crave for these things not the legality or illegality of the use of drugs, making it acceptable and easy to obtain would add to the problem. In Australia we are in campaign to get people to quit cigarettes smoking, it is costing hips and is working, so there is little chance of this happening to us, leave it to the Holland and US, we say not thanks, we don’t even want tobacco smoking in here.:shout

When you say we does that mean you are talking for everyone in Australia,i doubt that as many Australians smoke.

 

[TurkeyOnRye]

TurkeyOnRye,

What have they done? Let see, create employment for policeman,

Police officers have enough to deal with as it is.

...lobbyists,

Since when have lobbyists ever been a positive influence? Special interest groups have no place in politics.

lift the profile of politician,

The public profile of a politician should be of little to no concern. What should matter is their trustworthiness and sincerity. Politicians have traditionally never sided with legalization and have successfully made it look like it was because it's in the favor of the people as opposed to being in the favor of whatever special interest groups they support.

...but what causes all these evils is the lust for pleasure and entertainment of this generation, the lack of courage of the present generation, what got us where we are is their insatiable crave for these things not the legality or illegality of the use of drugs, making it acceptable and easy to obtain would add to the problem.

This stance on the issue is in direct contradiction to the facts. I gave a clear example, such as Holland and the fact that they have tolerated the free use and sale of pot since the 1970s, and yet somehow they have half the usage rate that Americans do. This is not an ambiguous issue, this is just fact.

As it is, Americans have extremely easy access to drugs. It's not different than legalization, essentially. The only difference is that no one talks about drugs, no one is educated about drugs, anyone who does use drugs has to go through an unsafe, unregulated black market and millions of our own citizens are being jailed for years at a time. Drug use should not be a legal issue, it should be a social health issue.

TurkeyOnRye,
In Australia we are in campaign to get people to quit cigarettes smoking, it is costing hips and is working, so there is little chance of this happening to us, leave it to the Holland and US, we say not thanks, we don’t even want tobacco smoking in here.:shout

Exactly! You have to educate and inform people about the issues. That's the only way real change can happen. Not to say that I think pot use in general is a problem. The fact is brute-force illegalization does nothing positive; it simply makes the perceived problems worse. It's as irresponsible as a parent telling their child to never do something but refuse to tell them why (not to say that our government should in any way be like a parent to us). Wise choices can only be made when you inform an individual and allow them to make their own choices. We could never grow as individuals if we didn't have choices to make.

 

[gnomon]

TurkeyOnRye,

What have they done? Let see, create employment for policeman, lobbyists, lift the profile of politician, but what causes all these evils is the lust for pleasure and entertainment of this generation, the lack of courage of the present generation, what got us where we are is their insatiable crave for these things not the legality or illegality of the use of drugs, making it acceptable and easy to obtain would add to the problem. In Australia we are in campaign to get people to quit cigarettes smoking, it is costing hips and is working, so there is little chance of this happening to us, leave it to the Holland and US, we say not thanks, we don’t even want tobacco smoking in here.:shout

The United States has drastically reduced tobacco smoking while tobacco remains a legal product.

Pathetic line of argument you put forth.

Do you have any arguments against legalizing marijuana?