Legalize Prostitution?

[Don Penguinoini]

No! That shows what this man called "Proverbs"D) thought sbout so logically, fairly and equally.

 

[PureX]

sigh..
Ok, so your problem lies in the "abuse" that's obvious allready. Now what if we could make sure that the only prostitutes are the ones who actually want to have sex for money. No abuse here. They love their jobs as prostitute, the customers love it, they pay a lot too.. Everybody happy. Could you agree with that? And what would be the first or at least a step towards that goal?

No one WANTS to have sex for money. That's why prostitution is always a form of abuse.

 

[BucephalusBB]

No one WANTS to have sex for money. That's why prostitution is always a form of abuse.

Nonsense. Pure nonsense.


With that I have to add that it was a "what if", you have not adressed my question at all.

 

[PureX]

I can see you're consistent, my dear. :hug:

I hold a contrary view to your point. I do not see the services that are sexual in nature to be damaging, to be honest, and I find exotic dance to be an art. It doesn't surprise me given our views on what is considered the "fine arts" that I see the two of us on opposite ends of the spectrum here. lol

I hope you don't find my questions as I'm challenging your position cornering or leading you into a trap, Dave. But I have to admit that I'm very intrigued with what you're saying. And this is the reason why: At what point is the human body seen as exploited when it evokes sexual desire in others? As you know, I'm in the business of professional dance, and so a position such as yours might be relevent if I were to stage a dance piece that is sensual or sexual in nature.

But there are other considerations with your argument and your feelings toward, as you say, women (more often but not always) who are "used" and "exploited" for the sexual enjoyment of paying customers. I would then presume that you feel the same way about pornography or "girlie" magazines? Perhaps even bellydance?

Which, btw, when my husband viewed a professional bellydancer perform for him and his buddies when he was in the Middle East, he adamantly stated over and over just how turned on he was while watching her. Was the woman being exploited for my husband's enjoyment?

I am certainly not trying to be cute - and I apologize if it seems that this is off-topic - but I am curious if this perspective with professions that can be sexual in nature is considered "legal-worthy" or not.



I see. Thanks for clarifying.




Peace,
Mystic

It's not the sexuality that makes prostitution harmful, it's the exploitation of a person's physical boundaries. To be a healthy human being, we need to feel that we are safe within a set of boundaries that includes our physical bodies. Once those boundaries are broached, as happens with child sexual abuse, a person loses their sense of belonging to themselves. They lose their understanding of themselves as rightfully inviolable. And once this has been lost, it's very difficult to re-establish. And without it, people make poor decision involving their own safety and well-being. They have been damaged and are in need of our help. They are not capable of making good decisions regarding their own boundaries, just as children are not capable of making informed decisions about sexuality. This is why I object to the idea that people choose to become prostitutes. The statistics show us the a huge majority of people who become prostitutes have been damaged by child sexual abuse, and are as a result no longer able to make healthy decisions regarding their own bodies and boundaries. And just as we must protect children from sexual exploitation because they are not capable of making realistic choices regarding sexuality, so too we should be protecting adults who have already been damaged by it.

The lesser degrees of exploitation, like pornography and exotic dancing, I'm sure will reveal a similar trend, in that many of the participants have also been sexually abused as children, and so as adults they do not have healthy concepts of their own bodies and boundaries. However, the damage being done to the models and dancers is significantly less harmful than in the case of prostitution, and so perhaps does not warrant outright banning. Also, there are sexual expressions of nudity and dance that are NOT forms of sexual exploitation, and these can actually be healthy for people to engage in, and that should certainly not be banned. A belly dancer or an artist's model would not be examples of sexual exploitation even though they do involve the expression of sexuality. So I would draw the line at actual prostitution.

 

[DallasApple]

The lesser degrees of exploitation, like pornography and exotic dancing, I'm sure will reveal a similar trend, in that many of the participants have also been sexually abused as children, and so as adults they do not have healthy concepts of their own bodies and boundaries. However, the damage being done to the models and dancers is significantly less harmful than in the case of prostitution,

I dont agree with this 100%...Women in pornagraphy are esentially prostitutes.(so are the men)They are comitting sexual acts for money. And then thousands of people view it and self pleasure while viewing thier images.And if you dont think its exploiting or has the possiblitly for trememdous harmful effects I will PM you with an article written by a man who is wanting change or reform the porn industry.In the article he gives two very explicit and quite frankly vulgar disgusting descriptions of some of the porn out their..If you have a weak stomach or are sensitive to graphic sexaul language(extremely graphic) I wont send it to you..Its definately not something I could post here..But the article was very convicing and very upsettign but enlighning at the same time.These women were litterally beign abused sexualy and verbally in a manner in which Im convinced that IF she in fact enjoyed it she must litterally have ZERO feeling of self worht or value..Volunteering to be treated like some animal with complete and utter disrespect to her body including obvious discomfort and humiliation fighting back tears means to me she woud have to be damamged and if not she is now.

I found another site that went over the history of the laws regarding obscenity in the Supreme court.One detective in Los Angelis tries to prosecute some of these fim makers ...There were 3 accounts of movies that again were equally repulsive.Includign one woman that litterally was beaten durign a "simulated' rape..Where she was actually physically injured on purpose to make it "real"..The producer of that film was actually a woman..She said that because of that(being a woman) she could convince the actresses to do things they otherwise woudlnt do.She admitted that the film they were making in the prescence of this interviewer that the actres was fixing to be "put through hell"..But that she new she could "take it".

Another fact I found was that 63% of the actors interviewed suffered from the affects of post traumatic stress...

The man in the article who was doing a documentory on the adult film industry cried after a day at an adult film making convention.And the following day as well..And he said he not the 'sensitive type"..

Blessings

Dallas

 

[DallasApple]

The lesser degrees of exploitation, like pornography and exotic dancing, I'm sure will reveal a similar trend, in that many of the participants have also been sexually abused

Also an exotic dancer is more likely to go into prostitution or the film making industry just beign in that enviroment. versus other fields..The opportunities and the influence of others can sway them.

As a matter of fact the famous porn star that actually ran for California governor started out as a dancer.Also dancers may tend to "subsidise" their income by turning a few tricks here and their..

But I agree if they "only" dance topless then the possiblities for lasting emotional problems is not as likely and if that is the result it would be less severe...

Blessings

Dallas

 

[Valjean]

Why is a prostitute different from a massage therapist or chiropractor? Both sell their bodies as instruments to satisfy the needs of others. Why is one exploitation and the other not?

This controversy is one of perception and convention. There is no objective difference betwen prostitution and any other profesion where one sells his time/labor/body/expertise to another.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Why is a prostitute different from a massage therapist or chiropractor? Both sell their bodies as instruments to satisfy the needs of others. Why is one exploitation and the other not?

This controversy is one of perception and convention. There is no objective difference betwen prostitution and any other profesion where one sells his time/labor/body/expertise to another.

I lean more toward this perspective, Seyorni. I wonder if it's because the dancer, porn star, or prostitute is selling orgasms and/or the art of the tease for profit. It could be that sex is considered private, sacred, or the like and that it ought not to be "degraded"?

I don't want to put words in the mouths of those I disagree with, but this is the assumption I'm making. Perhaps DA or PureX might be able to explain further, however I think that PureX tried to answer this question when WanderedOff postulated something similar earlier.




Peace,
Mystic

 

[MysticSang'ha]

This controversy is one of perception and convention.

BTW, this sentence sums up my feelings about the debate perfectly. Frubals!




Peace,
Mystic

 

[DallasApple]

Why is a prostitute different from a massage therapist or chiropractor? Both sell their bodies as instruments to satisfy the needs of others. Why is one exploitation and the other not?

This controversy is one of perception and convention. There is no objective difference betwen prostitution and any other profesion where one sells his time/labor/body/expertise to another.

Because for most people our sex organs are the very most personal element of our physical bodies.There is a tremendous element of vulnerability involved..Physically and emotioanlly.If I have sex with my neighbor and he pays me for it..The emotional aspects of that are FAR greater than if I gave him a back massage..

If its no differnt whatsover I can tell my husband that in order for us to bond and become one..the ultimate act I can give him is a back massage and pop his neck for him.That should keep us connected.

Sex between two people is litterally the closest you can get.You are completely exposed...There is nothing it can be compared to.But if you cant see the differnce between allowing another human beign inside your body and experincing sex together and visiting a chiroprator far a back adjustment I just dotn know what else to say.

I dont hear many massage therapist or chiropracters relying on the ability to disassociate (pretend its not even them in the room its someone else) in order to avoid emotional pain..To have to split you persona or phychi shows how deeply personal it is wether you like it or not.

But if we go with that line of thought anything we do with our bodies to aid or work for someone else is the same as prostitution.Working for Pets Mart grooming dogs is as personal and as exposing and as deeply vulnerable as havign sex with many many many strange men...Im sure after years and years of grooming animals for money that I might need some threrapy to sort out my feelings about it.

Blessings

Dallas

 

[DallasApple]

I guess I should try and do another poll..The question I woudl ask is how many here who have a lover or a spouse or what have you that you are intimate with..woudl be hurt or bothered for them to go pay a prostitute for sex for whatever reason..Say you dont want to have anal sex..Your lover/spouse does...Would it bother you for him or her to go and pay someone to give it to them?

I just have a sneaking suspicion it woudl bother most.Instinctively ...to the core it would hurt.It would me...Why...just because is all I can say.And the money part isnt the main reason..It woudl hurt equally for him to do it at all ....Now if he went to a massage thrapist for a full body massage I woudnt blink an eye..I woud be happy for him..I might even join him.

I dont know why Im startign to feel like some sort of odd ball because I clearly see my sexuality and that of all my siters and brothers of this world as something unique and special above all else.Something to be shared and enjoyed between lovers..Not sold to the general public.

Maybe I need to get over myself I dont know..But this is how I feel inside..

Blessings

Dallas

 

[DallasApple]

And what about these peoples futures?...As far as when they are no longer desirable as prostitues or are just plain burned out...What if they have dreams of love and a committed realtionship?...The "pool" of available men(in particualr) for them as prospects I would bet would be very small....I asked my husband in particual..Had I been a prostitute say from age 18 to 28..Decided to settle down ..If I had met him woudl he have been able to get over the fact that not only I sold my sexual self but over the course of 10 years I had been with over 10,000 different men.He said he didnt think he could be at peace with that and would walk on by.

Why is that?..If sex is simply an occupation like any other...

Maybe we are freaks I dont know.

Blessings

Dallas

 

[Troublemane]

Anyway, if we get too strict on prostitution, next thing you know, all the newspaper stands and gas stations won't be selling those cool glossy magazines.

Hahaha, true! Pornography is really just prostitution, cuz its just having sex for money. And pornography is legal, in fact, its a thriving industry that makes annually much more than Hollywood worldwide ( i think the numbers are like 60 billion annually for porn, 10-20 billion for hollywood/"mainstream")

The same arguments can be used vs. pornography as against prostitution.

 

[Sunstone]

I think an immediate and hard clamp-down on prostitution is the only way to force some scandalous people to remain loyal to their Acme Latex Love Dolls. Thus, in the interests of preserving the family unit of one person/one Love Doll, I am calling for the immediate abolition of prostitution.

 

[DallasApple]

Hahaha, true! Pornography is really just prostitution, cuz its just having sex for money. And pornography is legal, in fact, its a thriving industry that makes annually much more than Hollywood worldwide ( i think the numbers are like 60 billion annually for porn, 10-20 billion for hollywood/"mainstream")

The same arguments can be used vs. pornography as against prostitution.

I in fact would use the same argument and have..Its s lippery slope though to try and ban porn..What really disgust me though is how far its been taken.I did quite a bit of reading yesterday and some of the stuff the women in porn endure would upset and in fact outrage more people than not.And I beleive a man viewing this kind of stuff..actually becoming sexually aroused watchign a woman being treated that way would have to affect his overall view of women The bottom line being portrayed is women are for sex and in fact whatever kind of sex the man wants no matter how humiliating it is to her.In fact the more humiliation and complete diregard for her feelings the better..I would dare to hope and pray most men woud object to that kind of treatment of another human being.I dont care if she consented or not.And I dont care if he is not actually the one doing it.

I just have more faith that my brothers in this world have more respect for the female the weaker vessell than that..And would want to protect her..

Seriously Im a wee bit distrurbed right now.I've seen porn before..My FIL is an addict. when I was younger I got curious and watched some with my husband when he still lived at home adn the parents were gone..He had some pretty sick stuff..But what I read about yesterday takes the cake.

But yeah ..in affect pron is a form of prostituion..Having sex for money..Its just the one time sexual act has many many Johns paying for it.

Blessings

Dallas

 

[Troublemane]

As to the OP, should prostitution be legalized, I voted yes. Not because I think its a good idea to become a prostitute, or that there should not be consequences to actions, but sex is not something that should be stigmatized since its an integral part of life. Perhaps its fear that other people's devaluing of sex will cheapen their own experience, but then theres always the mystique of people who seem free to experiment/dwell i realms where others fear to go.

Although I am sure PureX is right about the statistics, ( I know a woman who is now a hooker, but wasnt when she and I dated ten years ago, and yes she was messed up--then and now),I dont see how criminalizing it will help. It may be that the Big Mind that controls the cosmos has a place for everyone, and that everyone has their own challenges to face in this life. I think we should be trying more to help these women first through decriminalization and through offering of love and support---thats probably something they dont get very often.

 

[DallasApple]

Although I am sure PureX is right about the statistics, ( I know a woman who is now a hooker, but wasnt when she and I dated ten years ago, and yes she was messed up--then and now),I dont see how criminalizing it will help.

If this isnt something she woudl chose to do if she had her head on straight..How would legalising help?...Would it not in fact encourage her??..At least take the stigma off that at least its not against the law and make it easier for her to continue doing what is harming her?

Blessings

Dallas

 

[DallasApple]

I think an immediate and hard clamp-down on prostitution is the only way to force some scandalous people to remain loyal to their Acme Latex Love Dolls. Thus, in the interests of preserving the family unit of one person/one Love Doll, I am calling for the immediate abolition of prostitution.

Maybe then they might be forced to form a real relationship of give and take.Somethign that takes a little more emotional investment to get the desired end result.True intimacy rather than physical release on a stranger that cares nothing about him other than how much money he has.Who knows..It could happen.

Blessings

Dallas

 

[Smoke]

Maybe then they might be forced to form a real relationship of give and take.Somethign that takes a little more emotional investment to get the desired end result.True intimacy rather than physical release on a stranger that cares nothing about him other than how much money he has.Who knows..It could happen.

Yeah, I understand that prison is one of the best places to form a relationship of true emotional intimacy. I can't understand why the government doesn't crack down on everybody whose relationships lack true emotional intimacy. That should be one of our top priorities as a nation.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

And what about these peoples futures?...As far as when they are no longer desirable as prostitues or are just plain burned out...What if they have dreams of love and a committed realtionship?...The "pool" of available men(in particualr) for them as prospects I would bet would be very small....I asked my husband in particual..Had I been a prostitute say from age 18 to 28..Decided to settle down ..If I had met him woudl he have been able to get over the fact that not only I sold my sexual self but over the course of 10 years I had been with over 10,000 different men.He said he didnt think he could be at peace with that and would walk on by.

Why is that?..If sex is simply an occupation like any other...

Maybe we are freaks I dont know.

Blessings

Dallas

I don't see you as a freak, Dallas, but I wonder if you and your husband feel that prostitutes and those who pay for their services are.




Peace,
Mystic