Legalizing Mary Jane

[sun rise]

You're still not taking in the whole picture because you have personal bias. It enhances various parts of a person's personality, not just weaknesses; it has to do with the individual's personality. It can also enhance creativity and liveliness. If you like any old jazz, you're listening to guys who smoked reefers and played music all the time. Marijuana is basically a sensitizer. Also, there are different strains that produce widely varying effects. An Indica will sedate even the most energetic person and induce couch-lock, while a strong Sativa will make your mind move and give you energy.

Id say that, because you had a bad experience that had a deep effect on you, you are very set on believing one thing about it, but one person's experience is not universal, it's anecdotal at best.

That echoes the "beat generation" where it was written: "I need to be free. I need to expand my mind. LSD, cocaine, a little morphine, peyote and a bottle of jack are needed to break the chains of conformity and expand my creativity."

Thinking that morphine and cocaine etc will truly help one be a better person is a trap.

 

[Nymphs]

That is not what the word "dangerous" means.

Going out your front door can be dangerous. Food can be dangerous. I know what it means.

 

[Nymphs]

Thinking that morphine and cocaine etc will truly help one be a better person is a trap.

It makes me a better person. I'm already an awesome person, but I think it makes me more patient, understanding and kind because of how it affects me.

 

[DreadFish]

That echoes the "beat generation" where it was written: "I need to be free. I need to expand my mind. LSD, cocaine, a little morphine, peyote and a bottle of jack are needed to break the chains of conformity and expand my creativity."

Thinking that morphine and cocaine etc will truly help one be a better person is a trap.

Well, you have made a nice critique of the quote you posted, but that has nothing to do with what I posted. You say my post echos your quote, though that quote is not what I was implying, so your answer to the quote is not an answer to my post.

I have made no claim that any drugs will make anyone a better person. I simply stated that the effect that marijuana has on a person depends on factors such as the individual's psychology and the strain of marijuana taken. That means, not only does it potentially enhance one's weaknesses, it also has the potential to enhance their strengths. There are many factors that go into an effect in this context.

Please try addressing what I've posted according to it's actual content with a structured, relevant rebuttal. Id like to have a legitimate discussion.

EDIT: I also can't find that quote from the beat generation anywhere but one site called the Kemet Story and your particular post; im not sure of it's authenticity. Who wrote it?

 

[no-body]

Exactly. There is no opium plant.

I'm not exactly sure what your point is. It's still 100% natural. If you somehow mean it's unnatural following your logic picking the flowers off the cannabis plant putting it in a pipe, lighting it on fire and inhaling the smoke is "unnatrual"

And lets not even get started on breeding cannabis to ridiculous proportions of thc than what the plant is naturally able to. That's extremely unnatural too.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

"Against" is an euphemism in my case.

I utterly abhor it, with a passion. As I do any sort of recreative drug use, particularly those that interfere with mental processes.

It is a matter of principle, of respect for society and for one's mental health.

What of the health benefits of pot? It's been shown to help with depression, anxiety, eating disorders, Tourette's syndrome, seizures, chronic pain and many more ailments. And it doesn't come with the long list of side-effects you don't want (increased thinking of suicide?) like the stuff the doctor will give you.

I don't recognize the rights to the gov allowing drug companies to introduce drugs deemed as safe that are not safe.

If you are suggesting that crack/heroin should be legal, obviously you must not be around drug addicts.
They are one of the biggest problems, an addict will do just about what ever it takes to get that high and coming off heroin can kill you.

Heroin is used in many places to treat pain. Many of our illegal drugs today were legal at one point in time, and a number of our legal drugs are proving to be more addictive and more destructive than illegal drugs. And yes, I have known addicts of many types, and many many times the drug abuse itself is only covering a deeper problem. It's also very rare for the withdrawal to be fatal, and as far as I know it has only been mentioned in unhealthy patients.

I voted yes both to legalize its medical use and to legalize its recreational use in Colorado. Before legalization, too many people ended up in prison just for smoking a joint here, the gangs controlled the trade, and the whole business went untaxed.

Now, home-grown Colorado pot is driving illegal pot out of the market in places, undermining the gangs a bit, and providing much needed tax revenues -- and no one's going to prison just for smoking a joint these days.

I really like what Colorado is doing, and I really hope the rest of the Union admits the massive amount of easy tax revenue, not to mention the money saved from not putting pot users in jail.
University of Colorado Berkeley also just so happens to be one of the colleges I'll be applying to for grad school (University of Washington is another)! Quite convenient that my college search is just so happening to turn up universities that are in states that have at least medical marijuana. Texas and Tennessee seem to be the exceptions, but there is always California.

In the sense that social tolerance overrules legal rejection every single time, sure it is.



It seems to me that drug use is the problem rather. Or even the deeper issue of consumerism of health and mental states.

Sleep control drugs and weight control drugs are perhaps even more harmful overall than illegal drugs. Alcohol is one of the most harmful of all, despite being all but completely legalized.

Continued acceptance of drugs both legal and illegal is what creates, enables and furthers social instability, far as I can tell.

What of the many cultures that have and use drugs for religious purposes? For many cultures, a shaman drinking a hallucinogenic concoction to perform a ritual and heal the ill is creating and maintaining social stability. Or what of the countless artists that have created masterpieces while under the influence of drugs? Or what of those that relax at home with a joint and a book?

The other day I had terrible cramps and went to lay down in my supervisor's office waiting for the painkillers to kick in. They didn't, so he offered me a toke. Turns out he has Crohn's disease and suffers chronic pain similar to cramps, and like myself has learned that pot is the best painkiller we've got. It worked a treat and I was back on my feet in seconds, having a wonderful and highly productive day.
To anyone who thinks treating myself for pain with a 100% natural, affordable, ubiquitous plant that I could grow in my garden should be illegal, mind your own business.

Myself, as a former manager, there were a few employees I did like better after they came back in from break and smoked abit of pot. Less argumentative, more productive, more cheerful and less mistakes. People make mistakes sober, and unless you smoked alot of pot or some really good stuff, I don't see the problem with having a buzz. I have known several people (especially those with ADD and/or OCD) who are able to focus better after a few hits. I've also worked with plenty of people who went from grumpy and unhappy lot before smoke break to a jolly, happy let's-get-it-done-and-go-home-and-play-video-games hard working crew after the smoke break.

An assertion was made about cannabis being "natural" as if calling something "natural" was a positive think. My point is that calling something "natural" is not necessarily positive because many poisons are naturally occurring.

And, of course, the drug delivery mechanism is a consideration. Smoke is smoke and smoking marijuana puts the same kinds of toxic chemicals into your lungs as tobacco.

Except today, when you smoke tobacco, you are smoking a little bit of tobacco and thousands of toxic additives. An occasional bowl of pot I really doubt is going to be any more damaging living in highly populated area with the pollution in the air. And as far as my research goes, it is still unclear if smoking pot causes any damage or not. There is also debate on if marijuana causes gynocemastia since it causes testosterone levels to drop, but like everything else there is no clear consensus. And I have yet to see anything that suggests it is harmful when eaten, or when vaporized.

 

[Nymphs]

What of the health benefits of pot? It's been shown to help with depression, anxiety, eating disorders, Tourette's syndrome, seizures, chronic pain and many more ailments. And it doesn't come with the long list of side-effects you don't want (increased thinking of suicide?) like the stuff the doctor will give you.

Heroin is used in many places to treat pain. Many of our illegal drugs today were legal at one point in time, and a number of our legal drugs are proving to be more addictive and more destructive than illegal drugs. And yes, I have known addicts of many types, and many many times the drug abuse itself is only covering a deeper problem. It's also very rare for the withdrawal to be fatal, and as far as I know it has only been mentioned in unhealthy patients.


I really like what Colorado is doing, and I really hope the rest of the Union admits the massive amount of easy tax revenue, not to mention the money saved from not putting pot users in jail.
University of Colorado Berkeley also just so happens to be one of the colleges I'll be applying to for grad school (University of Washington is another)! Quite convenient that my college search is just so happening to turn up universities that are in states that have at least medical marijuana. Texas and Tennessee seem to be the exceptions, but there is always California.


What of the many cultures that have and use drugs for religious purposes? For many cultures, a shaman drinking a hallucinogenic concoction to perform a ritual and heal the ill is creating and maintaining social stability. Or what of the countless artists that have created masterpieces while under the influence of drugs? Or what of those that relax at home with a joint and a book?


Myself, as a former manager, there were a few employees I did like better after they came back in from break and smoked abit of pot. Less argumentative, more productive, more cheerful and less mistakes. People make mistakes sober, and unless you smoked alot of pot or some really good stuff, I don't see the problem with having a buzz. I have known several people (especially those with ADD and/or OCD) who are able to focus better after a few hits. I've also worked with plenty of people who went from grumpy and unhappy lot before smoke break to a jolly, happy let's-get-it-done-and-go-home-and-play-video-games hard working crew after the smoke break.


Except today, when you smoke tobacco, you are smoking a little bit of tobacco and thousands of toxic additives. An occasional bowl of pot I really doubt is going to be any more damaging living in highly populated area with the pollution in the air. And as far as my research goes, it is still unclear if smoking pot causes any damage or not. There is also debate on if marijuana causes gynocemastia since it causes testosterone levels to drop, but like everything else there is no clear consensus. And I have yet to see anything that suggests it is harmful when eaten, or when vaporized.

You have given out too many Frubals in the last 24 hours, try again later.

 

[BSM1]

I'm not exactly sure what your point is. It's still 100% natural. If you somehow mean it's unnatural following your logic picking the flowers off the cannabis plant putting it in a pipe, lighting it on fire and inhaling the smoke is "unnatrual"

And lets not even get started on breeding cannabis to ridiculous proportions of thc than what the plant is naturally able to. That's extremely unnatural too.

Point? Dude, what were we talking about?

 

[DreadFish]

Point? Dude, what were we talking about?

And this, kids, is what happens when you smoke a lot of pot and start talking about stuff.

 

[Nymphs]

And this, kids, is what happens when you smoke a lot of pot and start talking about stuff.

*giggle*

 

[no-body]

Point? Dude, what were we talking about?

I'm not sure man. The whole "natural" thing just bugs me. Someone synthesizing a chemical in a lab is just as natural as a plant growing out of the ground with those chemicals.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I'm not sure man. The whole "natural" thing just bugs me. Someone synthesizing a chemical in a lab is just as natural as a plant growing out of the ground with those chemicals.

I'm not to big on touting the natural argument myself. Yes, weed is natural, but so are the things needed to make spice. Some natural mushrooms will take you down the rabbit hole, while some will kill you, and some you just eat. But nevertheless marijuana does seem to be one of the best medicines that nature provides us, at least in its capacity to be able to treat so many different disorders, illnesses and ailments; also in that it seems to have a very low rate of side effects, most of which seems to be the rare person that is allergic to marijuana.

 

[Mirza Yusuf Husayn Ali]

Personally, all drug use is forbidden for me to do unless prescribed by a doctor due to my religious beliefs, nor do I condone drug use or any kind of intoxicants, however I do think that if alchohol and tobacco is legal, then marijuana should definatley be legal. Marijuana has no bad side effects, but it's actually benificial to the human body.


- Mírzá Yusuf Ḥusayn- ' Alí
- ميرزا ​​يوسف حسين علي
- وسف حسین علی میرزا
- מירזה יוסוף חוסיין-עלי

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Indiana was supposed to have passed a bill decriminalizing, but I do not think Pence signed the bill.

 

[sun rise]

Personally, all drug use is forbidden for me to do unless prescribed by a doctor due to my religious beliefs, nor do I condone drug use or any kind of intoxicants, however I do think that if alchohol and tobacco is legal, then marijuana should definatley be legal. Marijuana has no bad side effects, but it's actually benificial to the human body.


- Mírzá Yusuf Ḥusayn- ' Alí
- ميرزا ​​يوسف حسين علي
- وسف حسین علی میرزا
- מירזה יוסוף חוסיין-עלי

Marijuana has harmful side effects as I've pointed out here.

 

[Mirza Yusuf Husayn Ali]

Marijuana has harmful side effects as I've pointed out here.

Such as?

 

[sun rise]

Such as?

See my two posts on page 6 of this thread. In addition, UN: Marijuana-related health problems on rise in US | Al Jazeera America

The study noted an association between marijuana use and serious health problems, including sudden cardiac death, myocardial infarction and stroke.
... Risks posed to youth include lung problems, memory impairment, risk of heavy dependence, mental health problems and poor cognitive performance, according to the U.N. report.


Noting the increase in levels of THC, the National Institutes of Health (NIH) warned in 2013 that "daily use can have stronger effects on a developing teen brain than it did 10 or 20 years ago."

And here's another summary Here's What We Know So Far About How Marijuana Affects Health

Again, any drug can legitimately be used for medical reasons. But I know from personal experience that marijuana is not harmless.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

If they are claiming 8% and 11% THC is high, they have not done their research well (we call that "reg" around here). Also many pot smokers are tobacco smokers, which cause the things outlined in the article. Also the gateway drug hypothesis has been found to be false; pot dealers often sell other things. In Indiana, more pot dealers than not also sell various pills and meth is also very common. Cocaine is also more common in certain circles than others, exposing people to it more and increasing the chances they will use it. And of course there are many people who will only use pot and other "natural" drugs like mushrooms and peyote. Many are content just smoking their pot. If these "critics" are so concerned about hard drugs and heroine, then they need to show they are serious and enact strict guidelines to regulate the hard drugs that doctors often give to their patients like candy. I've seen many lives ruined and disrupted from legal prescription drugs, the only disruption and ruin that I have ever seen come from pot are the legal consequences.

 

[columbus]

If these "critics" are so concerned about hard drugs and heroine, then they need to show they are serious and enact strict guidelines to regulate the hard drugs that doctors often give to their patients like candy. I've seen many lives ruined and disrupted from legal prescription drugs, the only disruption and ruin that I have ever seen come from pot are the legal consequences.

Really. My mom lived in her big old house years after Dad died. But then she got a UTI. I don't know what she said to the emergency room when she felt really bad. But they sent her home to an empty house with a huge bottle of Hydrocodon.
She used to be sharp, but now she can't balance her checkbook.

Tom

 

[DreadFish]

See my two posts on page 6 of this thread. In addition, UN: Marijuana-related health problems on rise in US | Al Jazeera America


And here's another summary Here's What We Know So Far About How Marijuana Affects Health

Again, any drug can legitimately be used for medical reasons. But I know from personal experience that marijuana is not harmless.

As far as the first article, it didn't really talk much about what the "marijuana-related health problems" were. Im assuming it's in that one sentence that says:

The study noted an association between marijuana use and serious health problems, including sudden cardiac death, myocardial infarction and stroke.

And

Risks posed to youth include lung problems, memory impairment, risk of heavy dependence, mental health problems and poor cognitive performance, according to the U.N. report.

Anyway, it's important to mark a difference between marijuana-related and related to smoking marijuana. A good extract does not pose the same health risks related to smoking or vaporizing. I checked the abstract from the study which noted that it was focused on the inhalation of marijuana, so i'll assume that the potential risks mentioned are only related to the smoking and possibly vaping of cannabis. We cannot say "marijuana does this" when it's specifically and only the smoking of marijuana that does "this".

In the case of teenagers, I certainly agree that they shouldn't be using it so much or at all because of their developing brain; teenagers shouldn't be drinking a lot either.

As far as the second article:

And even the immediate short-term effects of the marijuana, such as impaired thinking and coordination, can have consequences, including difficulty in learning in school and an increased risk of car accidents, the review said.

It's kinda a no-brainer (hur hur) that using MJ or any other mind-altering substance in class or while driving is going to impair your performance.

"So you're saying that something that causes me to lose focus (in moderate to high doses) is going to make it more difficult to drive or remember things that the teacher is saying in class? Get outta town!"

Regular marijuana smokers are also more likely than nonsmokers to have symptoms of chronic bronchitis, such as daily cough and phlegm production.

So, people who inhale smoke regularly are more likely to have symptoms of chronic bronchitis than people who dont inhale smoke on a daily basis? Who'da thunk? I thought it was only tobacco smoke that did that, not like, you know, anything else with irritants in it...

As far as the "few more highlights from the review":

Point one, I disagree with. You're addicted when you have next to no control over something and you don't do it just because you enjoy it. If someone doesn't have any control over their cannabis consumption, I think there's an issue with their own self-control. Sure, you can definitely be habituated to using it if you do it on a daily or semi-daily basis, and it might be hard not to partake (because, you know, when you have near-instant enjoyment in the form of just lighting up, it could be difficult to not do it if you dont know how to enjoy yourself otherwise). That =/= addiction by any means, nor is it dependence, which is an equally strong word, IMO.

Point two, I agree with. Teenagers, with their developing brains, should avoid moderate to heavy alteration of brain functions. "Getting high" usually involves moderate to heavy consumption at a given time, so of course, conclusions made here probably do not take light consumption into consideration. Some people do like to have just a bit to help relax but not get "high".

Points three, four, and six have their own caveats built in, which speaks for itself, and point five is a no-brainer that applies to any substance that alters focus and reaction time.

Please note, my sarcasm isn't directed toward you, sunrise, but the articles. Im not arguing that cannabis is harmless, there are potential risks for certain people and based on certain forms and regularity of partaking. What I am trying to do is point out that it is not some inherently dangerous substance either. It can be medicinal and it can be used safely in a recreational context.