• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Legalizing Mary Jane

Mycroft

Ministry of Serendipity
I was just curious if anyone is against the idea of legalizing marijuana, and if so, why are you against it?

Be prepared for a possible debate.

I oppose the legalisation because it shares genes with schizophrenia and has been shown to cause schizophrenia in many cases. Not a high percentage, but enough to be a possible problem if it were legalised. There is also the idea that marijuana exacerbates already underlying mental conditions.

I think that until further study is done, evidence suggests that legalising it could lead to a mental health pandemic.
 

DreadFish

Cosmic Vagabond
I oppose the legalisation because it shares genes with schizophrenia and has been shown to cause schizophrenia in many cases. Not a high percentage, but enough to be a possible problem if it were legalised. There is also the idea that marijuana exacerbates already underlying mental conditions.

I think that until further study is done, evidence suggests that legalising it could lead to a mental health pandemic.

If I may add, everything i've read suggests only that it may manifest schizophrenia in people who already have a disposition to it. There is no evidence that it is the actual cause of schizophrenia. So, it's certainly a factor, but a number of factors are necessary. Im not sure it's appropriate to say "it causes"; maybe more appropriately, we could say, "it contributes to" the development of schizophrenia in certain individuals. Of course, if it is the final straw to break the camel's back, I guess we might be able to say that "it causes" onset of schizophrenia in certain situations.
 
Last edited:

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
It's kinda a no-brainer (hur hur) that using MJ or any other mind-altering substance in class or while driving is going to impair your performance.
On behalf of the pot head honor students, I don't see any correlation that shows being high at school will lower your performance.

As for all these mental and physical disorders and problems they cause, why don't we see them more in musicians, actors, authors, and other public figures who are not only known marijuana users, but known heavy users? Cheech and Chong, Pauly Shore, Willie Nelson, Snoop Lion, Broken Lizard, the list goes on. Why do we not see these people having problems? Willie and Snoop especially, who are very heavy users and known for having very potent weed.
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
...

Point one, I disagree with. You're addicted when you have next to no control over something and you don't do it just because you enjoy it. If someone doesn't have any control over their cannabis consumption, I think there's an issue with their own self-control. Sure, you can definitely be habituated to using it if you do it on a daily or semi-daily basis, and it might be hard not to partake (because, you know, when you have near-instant enjoyment in the form of just lighting up, it could be difficult to not do it if you dont know how to enjoy yourself otherwise). That =/= addiction by any means, nor is it dependence, which is an equally strong word, IMO.

Point two, I agree with. Teenagers, with their developing brains, should avoid moderate to heavy alteration of brain functions. "Getting high" usually involves moderate to heavy consumption at a given time, so of course, conclusions made here probably do not take light consumption into consideration. Some people do like to have just a bit to help relax but not get "high".

Points three, four, and six have their own caveats built in, which speaks for itself, and point five is a no-brainer that applies to any substance that alters focus and reaction time.

Please note, my sarcasm isn't directed toward you, sunrise, but the articles. Im not arguing that cannabis is harmless, there are potential risks for certain people and based on certain forms and regularity of partaking. What I am trying to do is point out that it is not some inherently dangerous substance either. It can be medicinal and it can be used safely in a recreational context.
A few comments on your post. Although I agree about physical addiction, it is certainly possible to get dependent on any drug, marijuana included.

We both agree that there are risks although I evaluate the risk level as much higher based on my personal experience.

"inherently" dangerous can lead to one of those semantic arguments about what "inherently" means in this context. Anything has a certain level of risk involved and everyone should evaluate the level of risk.

As far as medical use goes, anything prescribed by a doctor for a specific condition is in the realm of treatment for a medical condition and therefore is evaluated by medical benefit against medical risk. Many truly dangerous drugs have a medical use and that is fine with me.

As far as recreation goes, your choice might be different than mine, but I don't want my perception clouded. I prefer to experience life with clear eyes rather than through a drug-induced fog even a temporary one.
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
I've not posted comments about how marijuana and other such drugs can be harmful from a religious/spiritual perspective. I find utterly convincing the discussion of Meher Baba, Rabbi Ariel Bar Tzadok, from an ayurvedic perspective and so forth as presented at Home

There are three key elements to Pragya aparadh. All three features of this mistaken intellect are caused and aggravated by continued recreational use of cannabis.

1.) Buddhi Vibrhramsh is the disturbed intellect. In this condition one sees that which is harmful as useful.

2.) Dhriti Bhramsha is disturbed self-control where one cannot be restrained from that which is asatmya (unwholesome), or that which deranges the mind.

3.) Smriti Bhramsha, disturbed memory where the texts say that the Self (sattwa) is covered by rajas and tamas.


According to the Torah, drug use for the purpose of spiritual gain or for any other kind of recreational use is wrong, misdirected, dangerous to both body and soul is and therefore condemned. There is no place for drug use in the life of a Jew walking the path of the Torah….
 

DreadFish

Cosmic Vagabond
On behalf of the pot head honor students, I don't see any correlation that shows being high at school will lower your performance.

Yes, this is very true. I just didn't want to completely deny the point because it would be equally fallacious to say that it doesn't lower performance at all. Some people and no problem and some people certainly do; it varies.

As for all these mental and physical disorders and problems they cause, why don't we see them more in musicians, actors, authors, and other public figures who are not only known marijuana users, but known heavy users? Cheech and Chong, Pauly Shore, Willie Nelson, Snoop Lion, Broken Lizard, the list goes on. Why do we not see these people having problems? Willie and Snoop especially, who are very heavy users and known for having very potent weed.

Yeah, I agree; this is partly what I was getting at with the "inherently" dangerous thing. If it were inherently dangerous, there would not be people who partake, even heavily, with no problems.


A few comments on your post. Although I agree about physical addiction, it is certainly possible to get dependent on any drug, marijuana included.

I just see "dependence" as a strong word, like addiction. In the context of alcoholism, alcohol dependence is when you need alcohol just to function. There are people at this point who will actually drink denatured alcohol because they have an urge that strong just to get alcohol into their system. I think that habituation may be a better word here. I might be splitting hairs with semantics, but addiction and dependence just feel too strong to me.

We both agree that there are risks although I evaluate the risk level as much higher based on my personal experience.

Yeah, I understand. I also have experience, but mine has not been so bad that I perceive high dangers. Which ties in to:

"inherently" dangerous can lead to one of those semantic arguments about what "inherently" means in this context. Anything has a certain level of risk involved and everyone should evaluate the level of risk.

What I mean by inherently is something that is dangerous regardless of any other factors. So, it's level of danger would be absolute and independent of any other factors such as the psychological disposition or physical health of the individual partaking and how much is used at a given time and how often it is used. There are many factors that go into the potential danger, so I say it is not inherently dangerous, but there is potential. Like in Shadow Wolf's example, there are many people who have partaken a lot and for a long time and they are not worse off for it. So, the danger is not inherent in the substance, but dependent on various factors that may or may not be present.

As far as medical use goes, anything prescribed by a doctor for a specific condition is in the realm of treatment for a medical condition and therefore is evaluated by medical benefit against medical risk. Many truly dangerous drugs have a medical use and that is fine with me.

Though I would also note that there are a number of drugs prescribed that really shouldn't be, as many of their side-effects really outweigh the potential medical benefits. So I wouldn't necessarily use that as a standard to judge substances.

As far as recreation goes, your choice might be different than mine, but I don't want my perception clouded. I prefer to experience life with clear eyes rather than through a drug-induced fog even a temporary one.

Of course, to each their own.

Just for the sake of argument, I'd mention that the cloudiness really varies from strain to strain and method of partaking. Part of the cloudiness of smoking actually comes from inhaling the byproducts of plant combustion and not from the psychoactive compounds; essentially, they're adulterants. Vaping is noticeably cleaner, and a tincture more so. With the right strain and a good tincture, you get a clear, non-lethargic experience with good analgesic properties and some degree of euphoria.

Not trying to convince you, just presenting some information.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Just for the sake of argument, I'd mention that the cloudiness really varies from strain to strain and method of partaking. Part of the cloudiness of smoking actually comes from inhaling the byproducts of plant combustion and not from the psychoactive compounds; essentially, they're adulterants. Vaping is noticeably cleaner, and a tincture more so. With the right strain and a good tincture, you get a clear, non-lethargic experience with good analgesic properties and some degree of euphoria.
That is a good point to bring up. The "body buzz" really doesn't leave your mind feeling high, but aches and pains can melt away and it can much easier to get up and move around. There are also some strains that give you a good peppy feeling and motivate you do things.
 

TheScholar

Scholar
To Ban Mary Jane and not Alcohol defies logic and reason. Marijuana, though I do not smoke, has few adverse affects the alcohol, so to ban Marijuana is silly. Since legalization will get Marijuana off the black market, and bring money into the economy, it has more benefits for legalization then for it to be illegal.
 

yoda89

On Xtended Vacation
I oppose the legalisation because it shares genes with schizophrenia and has been shown to cause schizophrenia in many cases. Not a high percentage, but enough to be a possible problem if it were legalised. There is also the idea that marijuana exacerbates already underlying mental conditions.

I think that until further study is done, evidence suggests that legalising it could lead to a mental health pandemic.

Why are you worried about others? If I want to do something and it does not harm you why can't I do it.Do you have the right to say what I can and cannot do with my body?

All drugs should be legal. Because you own your body. If you don't own anything else in this world you should still be able to own your own body. People should be able to do with it what they want.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
I voted to legalize marijuana in Colorado. Since then, however, I've heard that weed in Colorado has reached unprecedented levels of THC content. Twenty-eight percent in some cases. And it's my impression that consumption of THC at these levels has not been adequately studied. So, I think it's possible that there might be negative effects to such consumption. At the least, there should be some scientific interest taken in it.
 

idav

Being
Premium Member
I voted to legalize marijuana in Colorado. Since then, however, I've heard that weed in Colorado has reached unprecedented levels of THC content. Twenty-eight percent in some cases. And it's my impression that consumption of THC at these levels has not been adequately studied. So, I think it's possible that there might be negative effects to such consumption. At the least, there should be some scientific interest taken in it.

Yes I would be interested if those levels don't start making that state have less cases of cancer, since THC has been linked to having anti-carcinogens, despite the fact that smoking already has tons of carcinogens. IDK they were able to reduce certain types of tumors in rats and mice with it but they really dosed those suckers up.

Cannabis and Cannabinoids (PDQ®) - National Cancer Institute

edit: That said I am not unaware of some of Bob Marleys health issues, just the levels of carcinogens can probably make the difference, pills are likely much safer.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
Yes I would be interested if those levels don't start making that state have less cases of cancer, since THC has been linked to having anti-carcinogens, despite the fact that smoking already has tons of carcinogens. IDK they were able to reduce certain types of tumors in rats and mice with it but they really dosed those suckers up.

Cannabis and Cannabinoids (PDQ®) - National Cancer Institute

Alcohol in small quantities is very different than alcohol in large quantities. To suppose THC is some magical substance that is always beneficial seems like childish thinking to me. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. But to jump to the conclusion that it is always beneficial is worthy of a two year old.
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
I'm really in favor of the effort to further study the effects of THC since it's been proven already that there are negative effects and I wonder what we'll find at much higher doses.
 

idav

Being
Premium Member
Alcohol in small quantities is very different than alcohol in large quantities. To suppose THC is some magical substance that is always beneficial seems like childish thinking to me. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. But to jump to the conclusion that it is always beneficial is worthy of a two year old.

I am not jumping to conclusions though. If you notice it is large quantities that make the difference when experiments are observed with mice and rats. Cause they give these critters are given amounts closer to their body weights. And that isn't saying it is always beneficial, I just pointed out one benefit when it is large quantities as observed. Sure probably temporary adverse effects on the memory and what not, everything has side effects regardless, harmful or helpful is to be decided. I responded to you based on the fact that you said the stuff is becoming more potent, well when we test these critters we are testing high dosages.
 

DreadFish

Cosmic Vagabond
I would like to see some research into the effects of large doses of THC. THC is not the only active chemical that goes into producing the "high" you get, so higher levels of just THC will also affect the experience. It's very possible that breeding strains with very high levels of THC is not a good idea.

As far as a practical considerations, its like beer and liquor: higher active chemical content, lower dose taken. Higher THC content means you use less material. People need to be educated about how to use this stuff. As far as health concerns about smoking, higher potency can be good because it means less material burned and inhaled to get to the same point.
 
Last edited:
Top