Legitimate reasons not to believe in God

[AppieB]

I have no standard for reasonable other than my own. What is yours?

It's not so difficult. If you think somehting is reasonable to believe then you give the reason. And from there on we could explore and have a conversation.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

It's not so difficult. If you think somehting is reasonable to believe then you give the reason. And from there on we could explore and have a conversation.

I have so far only seen personal reasons both in favor or against the supernatural.
I am an universal strong skeptic after all and that works for me. I accept you do that differently and I even accept that my worldview doesn't make sense to you. What more do you want?

 

[samtonga43]

The problem is that there is no REASON to suspect that those things might exist whereas there are reasons to suspect that a God exists. That reason is all the great religions.

1. What makes a religion great?
2. Would an a-theist view any religion as 'great'?

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

I have so far only seen personal reasons both in favor or against the supernatural.
I am an universal strong skeptic after all and that works for me. I accept you do that differently and I even accept that my worldview doesn't make sense to you. What more do you want?

FWIW, you sound like a reasonable person to me.

 

[Trailblazer]

I won't hold my breath waiting for a supernatural event to happen to me either.

I was not holding my breath when it happened, and happened again several times.

 

[Trailblazer]

1. What makes a religion great?'

That's highly subjective

2. Would an a-theist view any religion as 'great'?

Why would they, given they don't believe in God?

 

[muhammad_isa]

Why is that so offensive to you? That's what I believe.

Well, imo, you are missing the point. While you don't believe in God, and see it as "just stories", many others think otherwise, and I don't think that you are claiming that FSM is a genuine claim .. it's effectively satire.

Evidence for God is anything evident to the senses that is better explained supernaturally than naturally.

No it isn't .. only a few people are that close to God that they have "supernatural experiences".

Can you think of no other answer than that it is because one exists and the other doesn't? I can, and any such naturalistic explanation is preferred over one that requires that a sentient, supernatural agent exist.

We all have our reasons for believing what we do.
Some people see truth in the Bible and Qur'an, while others don't.
I don't really know anybody who has faith in FSM .. it's a sattire.

One only need examine their beliefs closely to see that these believers don't believe the same thing, which is consistent with contrived answers

That evil exists is well-known. satan causes us to argue over details and make denominations, proudly proclaiming "the truth".

The top-down relates to who benefits from organized religion - kings and priests. Both of these demographics have an economic stake in promoting religious belief..

More evil..

Avoiding the issue? That was the issue. My claim is that if gods don't exist, it doesn't matter who wrote the holy books.

That is merely stating the obvious. It doesn't provide answers as to any specific claim, that might be true or false.

OK. But why would it matter which it was? This is frequently the issue, as with Trump and his claims about a rigged election. Does he really believe it? It might matter to a court of law, but not to me.

I guess I must be naturally curious .. does my religion give all the answers? No, but it does provide many that I find coherent.
Do I like the answers? Often I do not.
I find reality very harsh, and so are some of the answers, unfortunately.

The alternative, would be for me to turn away from faith altogether, which would be contrary to my experience .. that my faith helps people, and it is my shortcomings that hold me back from helping myself and others.

 

[AppieB]

I have so far only seen personal reasons both in favor or against the supernatural.
I am an universal strong skeptic after all and that works for me. I accept you do that differently and I even accept that my worldview doesn't make sense to you. What more do you want?

What do YOU want? You were responding to me.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Moses is considered a fictional character. So to ask what he taught is not “determining” truth. The Bible and Quran are no more credible than the Mormon Bible. You seem to disagree. Mormons don’t. Arbitrary judgments in the eye of the beholder.

They are not arbitrary judgments.
Religion has many elements, including the environment we are raised in. It is easier for a Christian to believe in "the golden plates" than a Muslim, for example.
There are many factors at play here.
You are just using Mormonism to your advantage. Divide and rule. Everybody is wrong. Nobody is right.
That means "your truth" is victorious. "there is no god".
A bad argument indeed.

Why would a rational mind think this is true without evidence?

There you go. Believers are all irrational, according to you.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

What do YOU want? You were responding to me.

That you either produce an objective reason or understand that all variants are 1st person subjective.

 

[Trailblazer]

I'm still not clear, some people can experience God within. I've not been very clear at all. I have, and I'm sure that @Seeker of White Light has too.

Yes, some people can 'imagine' that they experience 'God within' but that does not mean that God is actually within them.
Likewise, Christians believe that the Holy Spirit 'lives inside' of them, but Baha'is don't believe that.

How can God be 'within' people when God is 'one and alone' and 'self-subsisting?' This does not make any logical sense.

“He is, and hath from everlasting been, one and alone, without peer or equal, eternal in the past, eternal in the future, detached from all things, ever-abiding, unchangeable, and self-subsisting. He hath assigned no associate unto Himself in His Kingdom, no counsellor to counsel Him, none to compare unto Him, none to rival His glory.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 192

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

I won't hold my breath waiting for a supernatural event to happen to me either.

You'd be surprised how many times I've seen people who don't have abilities like mine have a personal encounter with spirits and don't even realize it, other than the usual goosebumps on their arms, hair standing on end on their arms and neck, or expressing the feeling that they were being watched but knowing that they were completely alone. What most people, or at least those who aren't mediums or sensitives, don't realize is that there are earthbound human spirits everywhere, and there are non-human spirits (animal spirits, elemental spirits, tree spirits, Djinn, angelic beings, and demonic entities) as well. There are also the shadow people and black-eyed children, but I'm hesitant to include them because parapsychologists and paranormal investigators haven't yet determined the nature of these humanoid beings. I won't go into the plethora of cryptids that have been sighted and reported over the centuries.

 

[AppieB]

That you either produce an objective reason or understand that all variants are 1st person subjective.

I'm not interested. We had this discussion before.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I'm not interested. We had this discussion before.

Okay.

 

[Trailblazer]

Justice in this case means looking at it fairly. The following proves it:

It beseemeth you to fix your gaze under all conditions upon justice and fairness. In The Hidden Words this exalted utterance hath been revealed from Our Most August Pen:

'O Son of Spirit! The best beloved of all things in My sight is Justice; turn not away therefrom if thou desirest Me, and neglect it not that I may confide in thee. By its aid thou shalt see with thine own eyes and not through the eyes of others, and shalt know of thine own knowledge and not through the knowledge of thy neighbour. Ponder this in thy heart; how it behoveth thee to be. Verily justice is My gift to thee and the sign of My loving-kindness. Set it then before thine eyes.'

They that are just and fair-minded in their judgement occupy a sublime station and hold an exalted rank.
(Baha'u'llah, Tablets of Baha'u'llah, p. 36)

Okay, when it comes to evaluating evidence for God's existence, which are the Messengers of God, I can see why you think this Hidden Word applies. People should see with their own eyes and not through the eyes of others, and should know through their own knowledge and not through the knowledge of others. Only then can they judge fairly. Justice in this sense means judging fairly.

 

[muhammad_isa]

1. What makes a religion great?
2. Would an a-theist view any religion as 'great'?

Atheists do not believe in the God of Abraham.
They would acknowledge their influence in the world, but dismiss them as "truth" .. so I think "great" in terms of the effect they have had on the world.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

I was not holding my breath when it happened, and happened again several times.

That's how it normally is when someone has an unusual experience like or similar to what you have personally experienced. I've been investigating and researching the paranormal as well as practicing psychic mediumship for the past fifteen years, and it has been my experience time and time again during these years that seeing truly is believing when it comes to a lot of skeptics of the supernatural.

 

[Trailblazer]

I believe in Baha'u'llah because I investigated over decades, so I believe in what He says.

I know that. I also believe in what He says but I cannot believe that God is all-loving....
I do not think God cares if I don't believe that, if He is all-loving.
What is important is recognition of Baha'u'llah and obedience to His Laws, the The Twin Duties

“The first duty prescribed by God for His servants is the recognition of Him Who is the Day Spring of His Revelation and the Fountain of His laws, Who representeth the Godhead in both the Kingdom of His Cause and the world of creation. Whoso achieveth this duty hath attained unto all good; and whoso is deprived thereof, hath gone astray, though he be the author of every righteous deed. It behoveth every one who reacheth this most sublime station, this summit of transcendent glory, to observe every ordinance of Him Who is the Desire of the world. These twin duties are inseparable. Neither is acceptable without the other. Thus hath it been decreed by Him Who is the Source of Divine inspiration.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 330-331

Do you know that all Baha'is don't agree with everything that is in the Writings? I saw a profile of a man on a dating site who is a Baha'i and it says in his profile that he doesn't agree with everything in the Baha'i Faith. People have a right to their own personal opinions.

 

[Trailblazer]

I can certainly understand why you would share this with @Sgt. Pepper as well as me.

Yes, she is kind and trustworthy and she also has knowledge and abilities that you do not have.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

That's how it normally is when someone has an unusual experience like or similar to what you have personally experienced. I've been investigating and researching the paranormal as well as practicing psychic mediumship for the past fifteen years, and it has been my experience time and time again during these years that seeing truly is believing when it comes to a lot of skeptics of the supernatural.

Well, I accept all personal understandings of the world as that, personal understandings. The problem starts when some declares it is the standard for all humans. Then I state that I do that differently. The point is that declaring a standard for all humans can be found among on both sides of the non-religious and the religious.