Lessons and going out after dark while being a woman

[Kerr]

This is probably the wrong place. I just need to get this out of my system because, well, this entire case is just so disturbing.

It is the gangrape in India. If you dont know what happened, basically this woman was out walking after dark in India with her boyfriend. A buss came and they got on it. Then she was gangraped by the passangers with such brutality she died in the hospital. Her boyfriend was beaten and thrown out of the buss.

Previously today there was a radio program where they talked about it, and the perpetrators "excuse" was mentioned. Apparently the passangers decided they wanted to teach the woman a "lesson" for going out after dark :areyoucra.

Wtf is wrong with these people? Seriously? What made them even come up with the idea? Why? In what possible way could an idea like this ever enter anyones head? Does anyone know?

Sorry, I just had to get that out of my system. I know there is half a world between me and where this happens but I still feel disturbed by this.

Take care,
Kerr.

EDIT:

And just to be clear, I dont think their so called "lesson" is a "lesson" anyone should take to heart.

 

[Shuddhasattva]

But what to do? The reaction has been so disproportionate and confused.

The lesson you refer to is the sad reality of the "rape schedule" - that women have to schedule their lives around the very real possibility of rape. This is more true for some than others as depends on the person, the environment, the place, and of course, the time. Delhi is particularly notorious for blatant disregard for women, which makes sense, considering it's the seat of power.

 

[Kerr]

But what to do? The reaction has been so disproportionate and confused.

The lesson you refer to is the sad reality of the "rape schedule" - that women have to schedule their lives around the very real possibility of rape. This is more true for some than others as depends on the person, the environment, the place, and of course, the time. Delhi is particularly notorious for blatant disregard for women, which makes sense, considering it's the seat of power.

I dont know what to do. In fact, I cant do anything, because I dont live in India. But I just can help finding it so... disturbing... that someone thinks that way. Its tragic that women have to endure that kind of attitudes and behaviour. And I do think a disproportionate and confused response is better then a lack of response, at least in a society that has these problems. Then there is hope for change.

EDIT:

For the record, I am against the death penalty and dont think they should be executed. But I can understand the wish to do so, and to be honest, I am not sure I would protest if they where.

 

[beenie]

It's the mentality of people we will never understand. There still is the belief that women need to be controlled and contained, and having them "out" after dark is irresponsible. As for the rapists, again, it's about control; their message is still that they controlled her because she did something "wrong".

Pathetic and a pity. It is so depressing that she died as a result of this.

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

This is the reason why I try to teach my fiance martial arts. That way, if this were to happen to her, she'd have a chance of defending herself.

 

[Rakhel]

The basic details of the incident, which can be found on Wiki(believe it or don't), is that she and her boyfriend were at a bus stop after leaving a movie. Neither she nor her boyfriend thought anything of the other men on the bus, until it veered off it's route. Her boyfriend got hit upside the head with the same metal rod they used on her during her rape. Nothing I have read said when it was used or in what capacity, much less cavity, and for that I am glad. She and her boyfriend were then tossed out of the bus and left for dead. They were later found by some passerby.
She suffered major damage to several internal organs. The government got involved and transferred her to Singapore, apparently one of the leading hospitals in that part of the world for multiple organ transplant.
All of this caused major protests and a number of lost jobs within several police districts in the area. (Tiny blurbs in my local papers). Her prognosis looked good until this last week when she took a turn for the worst and died of her injuries.
The six men involved, one of which was the bus driver, have been arrested and have since been charged with murder after initially being charged with assault.
The idea that this was part of some "rape schedule" is absurd. Some of the police suspensions was due to the fact that these same..."men"... had mugged another gentleman who had found himself in the same predicament, locked bus going off route, earlier in the evening.

 

[Penumbra]

This is probably the wrong place. I just need to get this out of my system because, well, this entire case is just so disturbing.

It is the gangrape in India. If you dont know what happened, basically this woman was out walking after dark in India with her boyfriend. A buss came and they got on it. Then she was gangraped by the passangers with such brutality she died in the hospital. Her boyfriend was beaten and thrown out of the buss.

Previously today there was a radio program where they talked about it, and the perpetrators "excuse" was mentioned. Apparently the passangers decided they wanted to teach the woman a "lesson" for going out after dark :areyoucra.

Wtf is wrong with these people? Seriously? What made them even come up with the idea? Why? In what possible way could an idea like this ever enter anyones head? Does anyone know?

Sorry, I just had to get that out of my system. I know there is half a world between me and where this happens but I still feel disturbed by this.

Take care,
Kerr.

EDIT:

And just to be clear, I dont think their so called "lesson" is a "lesson" anyone should take to heart.

The details of what they did to her are almost unbearable to think about.

The statistics for women in India are alarming. So many reported rapes, so many murders of wives by husbands and father in laws, huge differences between survival rates of baby girls and baby boys.

It's difficult to think of how a human could treat another human like trash simply because of her gender. I hope the people of India can improve the safety of women from this, but I'm just an outsider looking in.

But what to do? The reaction has been so disproportionate and confused.

Which specific way would you say it has been disproportionate?

 

[Copernicus]

Given the bus driver's involvement, this looks like a premeditated crime. They were looking for a victim, and this young couple was unlucky enough to encounter them when it happened.

 

[Shuddhasattva]

Which specific way would you say it has been disproportionate?

Public outrage getting nothing done.

 

[Kerr]

Public outrage getting nothing done.

What makes you think nothing will change?

 

[oldbadger]

But what to do? The reaction has been so disproportionate and confused.

Public outrage about this cannot be too great. It can make all the difference to a government's policy.

This country has a chance to use this vicious dirty disgusting crime to make a difference and example, and if the accused are convicted, a penalty could be chosen to send a clear message to all.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

But what to do? The reaction has been so disproportionate and confused.

Which specific way would you say it has been disproportionate?

Public outrage getting nothing done.

Claiming the response to be 'disproportionate' is clearly one of the most detestable comments I have read on the matter.

 

[beenie]

Claiming the response to be 'disproportionate' is clearly one of the most detestable comments I have read on the matter.

Completely agree.

Public outrage and not allowing the government and society in general forget about this horrific event is exactly what they should be doing.

People have been silent and passive regarding the rights and treatment of women for too long. Perhaps, from this disgusting, senseless crime, India will wake up and address the problems with women's status in general.

The whole thing makes me sick to my stomach.

 

[Kerr]

Completely agree.

Public outrage and not allowing the government and society in general forget about this horrific event is exactly what they should be doing.

People have been silent and passive regarding the rights and treatment of women for too long. Perhaps, from this disgusting, senseless crime, India will wake up and address the problems with women's status in general.

The whole thing makes me sick to my stomach.

As I see it, the bolded part is what all this really is about. This case is part of something larger, its part of how women are views in that society, and thats why the public outcry is a good thing. If people go silent, this can continue.

 

[UTK007]

I agree with the people who have said in this forum that this event was about control. This was a single instance in a larger struggle that women in India and all over the world are having to fight. Some men, for cultural and sadistic reasons and other reasons I can't begin to understand, believe that women have to exist in ways that only please these men.

And to the person who brought up the idea of a rape schedule, thank you. This schedule is not a concept that has ever occurred to me, and due to the frequency of rape, I think it is a concept that all men should be aware of.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

In some countries including India. The culture Favours boys from birth.
There is a far higher incidence of female infant killings and child hood enslavement than for Males.
At widowhood, females are despised and not provided for, but thrown out by their families.

At all ages between, Females are disrespected and treated as second class at best.

There is a growing middle class with a more westernised culture, and a sub culture of Anglo-Indians that follow more the traditions of the Raj.

But the more primitive and lower cast mentality is still very strong.

I can not see what would be likely to improve this situation. It is a vast country of mostly poor and the disenfranchised. Culture is not easily changed in those circumstances.

 

[atanu]

This is probably the wrong place. I just need to get this out of my system because, well, this entire case is just so disturbing.

It is the gangrape in India. ----.

I agree. The case is so disturbing that all public outrage falls short. I will be ashamed as long as I live.

Personally. I cry, thinking of the girl who saw her nice evening turned into hell and eventually to death. Second, I shudder at the thought of how men can become vicious beasts when lust, geed, hatred, and alcohol combine.

May the valliant girl's life and death not go waste.

 

[Shuddhasattva]

Public outrage and not allowing the government and society in general forget about this horrific event is exactly what they should be doing.

Relatively little fault lies with the government, and relying on the government to solve everything is part of why India is in such a mess.

As far as society, 'society' is schizoid at best, the moral piety of the delhi middle class and studentry while well-meaning seems to me of little societal or political value.

I don't believe for a moment that a lot of confusedly angry people is going to reduce rape or sexual violence or sexually hierarchical attitudes. The problems are so much deeper-seated that I'm actually worried this outburst will obscure more issues than it brings to light. We're going to see only lipservice and bandaids like some CJ "inaugurating" a new fast-track court system for sexual assault.

People have been silent and passive regarding the rights and treatment of women for too long. Perhaps, from this disgusting, senseless crime, India will wake up and address the problems with women's status in general.

I wouldn't hold your breath.

 

[Rakhel]

I just read an updated version of the wiki page. I was thoroughly disgusted at what I read and am not entirely sure I want to know anymore.
The most I can, and will, say is that the 5 adults have been arrested and are being charge. The rumor is they are being charged with "rape, murder, kidnapping, robbery, and assault" The sixth accused is a minor and will be tried separately. With what, they haven't said.
Anyone interested in keeping up on the case can view the wiki site at 2012 Delhi gang rape case - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Shuddhasattva]

Public outrage about this cannot be too great. It can make all the difference to a government's policy.

But this, as I see it, is part of the problem. People get angry by proxy and then take to the streets but I see no real fire of transformation, only the shrill luxury of demands born more of general dissatisfaction than anything else.

So the government, considering itself in a transactive situation with the votebank, struggles to provide immediate gratification and assuage the mob's sudden outbreak of moral piety, as insincere as it may well be.

The recipe is that of obfuscation and politicking, where crowds are hijacked by agendas.

This country has a chance to use this vicious dirty disgusting crime to make a difference and example, and if the accused are convicted, a penalty could be chosen to send a clear message to all.

My issue with the response's proportionate is not the size but its lack of suitability. perhaps "proportionate" wasn't the best word; the mental image I had at the time was that of a radar graph comparing the crime (as a symptom of an underlying disease) and the public response - which seems to me 'big' in all the wrong ways, and not at all really intentive of the needful change. The response does not fit.

Certainly, this (and really, many more things - it is sad commentary in of itself that a watershed event is needed when there are events that occur on a daily basis for half a billion people that are collectively far more egregious) can and should catalyze a mass movement for sexual integrity in India, but do people have the necessary ethical stamina or is this outrage an empty, hollow thing more politically problematic than culturally transformative?

By the way. I certainly would not consider capital punishment 'disproportionate'; as long as guilt is certain, the perps - including the minor - should stand for the high jump as soon as possible.