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Lessons learned from the Clinton/Trump election

Skwim

Veteran Member
I'm more reluctant to call people dim-wits because imo, people that call others dim-wits are dim-wits themselves that think more highly of themselves then they ought to.
So are people who call other people geniuses, geniuses themselves?

With that being said, if I were wanting to become president of the US against all odds, and if I were a deceptive animal, I would want to plea and appeal to the majority of the people, even if I had to become an actor in order to do so. Doing whatever it took to win.
But Trump, not winning the popular vote, obviously did not appeal to the majority of the people. But whether he appealed to the most people or not, his past remarks and actions have shown us his wit ain't all that sharp. Certainly not sharp enough to be President of the USA.


.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
The US Constitution sets the requirements for being president. Iirc, the main requirements are being a minimum age (I think 35) and being a natural born US citizen. The Constitution doesn't set any standards for federal agencies.

Certain federal agencies you have to have some education requirements, mostly a Bachelor's degree or in school obtaining one. Other requirements are age unless one comes straight from high school like in ROTC and goes into military. Other agencies require you have certain physical health checks, good credit history, and some no children or children of a certain age. I know this because I applied for one but was declined based on lack of experience for that particular position among other things it decided not to mention point blank.

Public federal government agencies like the Capitol, Library of Congress, National Archives, among others the requirements are less just there is a high security check. I couldn't go onto Pentagon property until almost a half year background check and that wasn't even near the Pentagon building itself. But, anyway.. *coughs* if all the gossip is true about about Hillary, Trump being a rapist, and all of that, I can't imagine how they even got into that position in the White House at all.

I mean, I live in a Catholic owned independent housing; and, they won't accept me with all the money in the world if I was committed of rape regardless of the year. (For perfectly good reasons, but still)

I know the president don't do much in the White House but if one is supposed to be a Beacon for a country, they should at least have a bit more credibility in how they conduct themselves professionally and not just the values they want to implement but in reality have no actual control in actually doing the implementation.
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
I know the president don't do much in the White House but if one is supposed to be a Beacon for a country, they should at least have a bit more credibility in how they conduct themselves professionally and not just the values they want to implement but in reality have no actual control in actually doing the implementation.

The fact remains that isn't how it works, and there's no use fretting over it. Only a Constitutional amendment can change it. That isn't very likely to happen given that in the history of the US the Constitution has been amended only 27 times.
 

Underhill

Well-Known Member
1. Polls are completely unreliable
2. The Republican party is very much alive
3. Trump is supported by more than just old, white, and bigoted men.
4. No political, military, or diplomatic experience is required to be president.
5. An unwavering will to become president does not guarantee the presidency.
6. Support from your political party is not required to become president.

What did YOU learn from this election?

I suspect the polls were accurate. But when I went to the polls (and I live in a heavily Republican district) the lines were the longest I've ever seen. Clinton supporters stayed home, while Trump supporters came out in droves.
 

Lighthouse

Well-Known Member
So are people who call other people geniuses, geniuses themselves?

But Trump, not winning the popular vote, obviously did not appeal to the majority of the people. But whether he appealed to the most people or not, his past remarks and actions have shown us his wit ain't all that sharp. Certainly not sharp enough to be President of the USA.


.

I think that people can self-reflect and get to know themselves better before claiming to know others. When the self is known more rationally, only then can the self make sound, rational judgements on other people and realize they are the same as other people as well in my opinion. A plethora of animals all sharing differing measures of the same animal qualities.

That's irrelevant, national popular vote doesn't win. Appealing to the popular in states needed to win would be more relevant. It's not possible for an alleged "Republican" to currently appeal to the populous in California for example.

He did have just enough sharpness to win, whether it was genuine, vain, or a combination of both.

That remains to be seen if he's sharp enough to be president of the US. Past indications don't mean a whole lot if we believe in evolution. Stuff changes. That too is also irrelevant, because there will always be difference of opinion on whether he is sharp enough or not sharp enough. Who has the superior and correct subjective judgement?
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
The fact remains that isn't how it works, and there's no use fretting over it. Only a Constitutional amendment can change it. That isn't very likely to happen given that in the history of the US the Constitution has been amended only 27 times.

A constitutional amendment can change how a person conducts themselves professionally? The president should have at least that. As with the other requirements, I'm just in shock. I don't keep up with politics. I don't even have a t.v.; and, when I did, I don't even watch the news. But even so, many other people who do keep up with these things have a right to fret about it. I mean, I'm glad to see the first African American president though I'm not that old for it to affect me just yet but I know if I "didn't care" I'd regret it later in life. So, I think Americans have a right to be concerned.

Also, since Americans are a part of the government too we have some affect but personal experience shows me that an individual morals don't have a place in politics. I know there are a lot of Christians in the White House but because of their positions and relation to each other, they do things against their morals.

I mean, I don't even know how the world would be when my second cousins grow older. I dont think about it too much. Just enjoy the nice weather.
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
A constitutional amendment can change how a person conducts themselves professionally? The president should have at least that.

That's not what I said or implied. The Constitution does not set the requirements for a president's character. His character is actually of no consequence as long as he breaks no laws. As a congressman and as vice-president Nixon was seen to be inept. As president he was known to be a schmuck. If it weren't for that little Watergate debacle he probably would have finished out his term. Kennedy was a notorious womanizer. I could have actually said it all with two words... Bill Clinton.
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
Who has the superior and correct subjective judgement?
You think the following list of Trump's actions reflect superior and correct subjective judgement?

Mocked a man with disabilities.
Attacked the parents of a fallen American hero.
Belittled POWs and the war record of Sen. John McCain.
Lied about how much money he raised for veterans.
Called a former Miss Universe “disgusting” and fat, telling his Twitter followers to find her non-existent sex tape.
Accused an American-born federal judge of being unfit to do his job because of his Mexican heritage.
Likely avoided paying taxes for nearly two decades.
Called most Mexican immigrants rapists and criminals, even though that’s not remotely factual.
Lied about seeing “thousands and thousands” of Muslims celebrating in New Jersey on 9/11.
Lied about getting a letter from the NFL complaining about the debate schedule.
Tried to exploit the death of an African American woman in Chicago to say that’s why black voters will support him.
Found the “bright side” to tragedies because his poll numbers tend to go up.
Settled with the Department of Justice after his company was found guilty of racially discriminating against minorities.
Has cheated on at least one wife.
Was discovered on video admitting that he not only tried to cheat on his current wife, but he attempted to do so with another married woman.
Had his first wife publicly say that he did nothing when it came to raising their children until they were old enough to talk business.
Tweeted that women should have expected to be sexually assaulted when they mixed males and females together in the military.
Said he wants to target the families of terrorists.
Stated that he wants to ban an entire religion. Praised a Russian president who obviously hates the U.S. and Americans.
Encouraged the Russian government to commit espionage against Americans.
Insinuated that another Republican’s wife was ugly.
Tried to implicate another Republican’s father in JFK’s assassination.
Sought out the help of former Fox News CEO Roger Ailes after he was fired following multiple allegations that he had sexually harassed women for years.
Made Breitbart’s Steve Bannon one of his top campaign people.
Had a former campaign manager abruptly resign after a report came out linking him to pro-Russian groups that were directly trying to undermine U.S. policy in .. ...eastern Europe.
Called Carly Fiorina ugly.
Has said climate change was a hoax created by the Chinese — then denied saying it.
Was a leading conspiracy theorist when it came to the racist-driven birther conspiracies against President Obama.
Dismissed nearly eight years of accusing the president of not being an American with a less than 30-second statement where he didn’t apologize for any of it.
Re-tweeted anti-African American propaganda created by a white supremacy group.
Played dumb about knowing who former Grand Wizard of the KKK David Duke was.
Skipped a presidential debate because he was scared of a moderator.
Called a husband doing things like changing diapers and helping with the children, a man “trying to be the wife.”
Has said he wants more countries to have nuclear weapons.
Said he can’t release his tax returns because they’re currently being audited — even though the IRS said that’s a lie.
Feels he has the right to sexually assault women.
Is currently battling a fraud lawsuit where victims allege he created Trump University to scam them out of tens of thousands of dollars.
Used funds raised by his charity foundation to pay his personal legal fees.
Said that one of the women accusing him of sexual harassment wasn’t attractive enough for him to have assaulted.
Has a long history of not paying contractors for doing work they had already completed.
His bankruptcies benefited him, while ultimately leaving many people to which he owed money out to dry.
Outsources most of his company’s manufacturing jobs to other countries.
Has said that all the women accusing him of sexual assault are liars.
Refused to say if he would concede the election if he loses on November 8th.
Allegedly asked military advisers why we can’t use nukes since we have them.
After being told that our security experts know that Russia is behind the hack of the DNC and American citizens, continued to deny that they knew anything,
...effectively defending and taking the word of Russia over believing and trusting our own intelligence agencies.
Once said that women who have abortions should be “punished.”
Alluded to the size of his penis during a presidential debate.
Mocked the looks of Ted Cruz’s wife.
Was accused of planting a fake story in the National Enquirer concerning Ted Cruz having multiple affairs.
Currently has a court date set for allegations he sexually assaulted a 13-year-old.
Claims he’s donated millions to charity but refuses to prove it.
Called Hillary Clinton a “nasty women” when she factually called him out for tax evasion.
Evidence seems to indicate that he bribed the Florida attorney general to avoid the state joining the fraud lawsuit against Trump University.
Has admitted to trying to buy off politicians.
Following his meeting with the Mexican president, he lied about being told that there was no way Mexico would pay for his wall.
Has repeatedly advocated for committing war crimes.
Said he knows more about terrorism and the Middle East than our generals.
Has repeatedly said that our NATO allies are going to have to “pay up” for our protection.
Said more countries should have nuclear weapons — then denied saying it.
Has, on several occasions, suggested he finds his daughter attractive.
Tried to blame Hillary Clinton for his racist birther propaganda.
Said, with a straight face, that nobody has more respect for women than he does.
During an interview said that “a flat-chested woman can never be a 10.”
source

[Says it's alright to call his daughter a piece of ***]

 

Akivah

Well-Known Member
That behind the civility of the USians I've known in the UK, or the US books and newspapers I read, there's a vast putrid swamp of ignorant bigots, racists, and sexists.

That phenomenon is not limited to Americans. It is the anonymity of the internet that allows people to be more honest (or obnoxious) about their opinions. In person, most of us are not like what we sometimes say on the internet.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
That phenomenon is not limited to Americans. It is the anonymity of the internet that allows people to be more honest (or obnoxious) about their opinions. In person, most of us are not like what we sometimes say on the internet.
I'm actually much more offensive in person.
 

james bond

Well-Known Member
1. Polls are completely unreliable
2. The Republican party is very much alive
3. Trump is supported by more than just old, white, and bigoted men.
4. No political, military, or diplomatic experience is required to be president.
5. An unwavering will to become president does not guarantee the presidency.
6. Support from your political party is not required to become president.

What did YOU learn from this election?

1. Polls reporting are geared to what party you are backing. In Cali, the election was called for Clinton as soon as the polls closed while in Florida, the GOP led by 1.5% with 1% of the vote remaining and it still wasn't called. The only question was Nevada, a battleground state, on the west coast. It had the semblance of a race.

2. I learned that that you know who your enemies are on the opposition, but the ones you really have to watch out for are the enemies in your own party. That's why I keep saying to the Dems the racists are in their party. On the flip side, the right-wing conservatives still think they rule with their money, but the RINOs have been nominated the past two times before Trump came along.

As an example on the Democrat side, the people I knew, i.e. artists and musicians, were leery about the new federal copyright law. What happened is the federal bureaucrat who sided with songwriters was fired. This is because Google who has the big money wants to get artists' works free on the internet -- https://www.washingtonpost.com/ente...c0b140-a4ea-11e6-8042-f4d111c862d1_story.html while artists want to get paid for work shared on the internet.

3. Trump got the people for democracy, i.e. those against the rich oligarchy running the US, the unions and blue collar (deplorables), Christians, people who wanted a strong leader, and those who were against Obamacare price hikes and those who wanted better jobs and economy.

4. Agreed, but you need gobs of money. Bernie Sanders didn't have it.

5. +1.

6. Support from the people is required, but also the electoral college.
 
Last edited:

Lighthouse

Well-Known Member
You think the following list of Trump's actions reflect superior and correct subjective judgement?

Mocked a man with disabilities.
Attacked the parents of a fallen American hero.
Belittled POWs and the war record of Sen. John McCain.
Lied about how much money he raised for veterans.
Called a former Miss Universe “disgusting” and fat, telling his Twitter followers to find her non-existent sex tape.
Accused an American-born federal judge of being unfit to do his job because of his Mexican heritage.
Likely avoided paying taxes for nearly two decades.
Called most Mexican immigrants rapists and criminals, even though that’s not remotely factual.
Lied about seeing “thousands and thousands” of Muslims celebrating in New Jersey on 9/11.
Lied about getting a letter from the NFL complaining about the debate schedule.
Tried to exploit the death of an African American woman in Chicago to say that’s why black voters will support him.
Found the “bright side” to tragedies because his poll numbers tend to go up.
Settled with the Department of Justice after his company was found guilty of racially discriminating against minorities.
Has cheated on at least one wife.
Was discovered on video admitting that he not only tried to cheat on his current wife, but he attempted to do so with another married woman.
Had his first wife publicly say that he did nothing when it came to raising their children until they were old enough to talk business.
Tweeted that women should have expected to be sexually assaulted when they mixed males and females together in the military.
Said he wants to target the families of terrorists.
Stated that he wants to ban an entire religion. Praised a Russian president who obviously hates the U.S. and Americans.
Encouraged the Russian government to commit espionage against Americans.
Insinuated that another Republican’s wife was ugly.
Tried to implicate another Republican’s father in JFK’s assassination.
Sought out the help of former Fox News CEO Roger Ailes after he was fired following multiple allegations that he had sexually harassed women for years.
Made Breitbart’s Steve Bannon one of his top campaign people.
Had a former campaign manager abruptly resign after a report came out linking him to pro-Russian groups that were directly trying to undermine U.S. policy in .. ...eastern Europe.
Called Carly Fiorina ugly.
Has said climate change was a hoax created by the Chinese — then denied saying it.
Was a leading conspiracy theorist when it came to the racist-driven birther conspiracies against President Obama.
Dismissed nearly eight years of accusing the president of not being an American with a less than 30-second statement where he didn’t apologize for any of it.
Re-tweeted anti-African American propaganda created by a white supremacy group.
Played dumb about knowing who former Grand Wizard of the KKK David Duke was.
Skipped a presidential debate because he was scared of a moderator.
Called a husband doing things like changing diapers and helping with the children, a man “trying to be the wife.”
Has said he wants more countries to have nuclear weapons.
Said he can’t release his tax returns because they’re currently being audited — even though the IRS said that’s a lie.
Feels he has the right to sexually assault women.
Is currently battling a fraud lawsuit where victims allege he created Trump University to scam them out of tens of thousands of dollars.
Used funds raised by his charity foundation to pay his personal legal fees.
Said that one of the women accusing him of sexual harassment wasn’t attractive enough for him to have assaulted.
Has a long history of not paying contractors for doing work they had already completed.
His bankruptcies benefited him, while ultimately leaving many people to which he owed money out to dry.
Outsources most of his company’s manufacturing jobs to other countries.
Has said that all the women accusing him of sexual assault are liars.
Refused to say if he would concede the election if he loses on November 8th.
Allegedly asked military advisers why we can’t use nukes since we have them.
After being told that our security experts know that Russia is behind the hack of the DNC and American citizens, continued to deny that they knew anything,
...effectively defending and taking the word of Russia over believing and trusting our own intelligence agencies.
Once said that women who have abortions should be “punished.”
Alluded to the size of his penis during a presidential debate.
Mocked the looks of Ted Cruz’s wife.
Was accused of planting a fake story in the National Enquirer concerning Ted Cruz having multiple affairs.
Currently has a court date set for allegations he sexually assaulted a 13-year-old.
Claims he’s donated millions to charity but refuses to prove it.
Called Hillary Clinton a “nasty women” when she factually called him out for tax evasion.
Evidence seems to indicate that he bribed the Florida attorney general to avoid the state joining the fraud lawsuit against Trump University.
Has admitted to trying to buy off politicians.
Following his meeting with the Mexican president, he lied about being told that there was no way Mexico would pay for his wall.
Has repeatedly advocated for committing war crimes.
Said he knows more about terrorism and the Middle East than our generals.
Has repeatedly said that our NATO allies are going to have to “pay up” for our protection.
Said more countries should have nuclear weapons — then denied saying it.
Has, on several occasions, suggested he finds his daughter attractive.
Tried to blame Hillary Clinton for his racist birther propaganda.
Said, with a straight face, that nobody has more respect for women than he does.
During an interview said that “a flat-chested woman can never be a 10.”
source

[Says it's alright to call his daughter a piece of ***]


Many of those are allegations, opinions, inaccurate, bogus, jokes/sarcasm, magnified, his own free opinion, words interpreted with twisting. I don't expect some to see this though, and I'm not even going to bother to try to argue.

Many of those things lack evidence, and require blind faith. Since when it is okay for some, while not being a hypocrite, to ignore lack of evidence and accept things blindly?

Most importantly, if a lot of those were accurate, that is the nature of most people. Most of those people are just self-righteous and act like they aren't the same way in their own ways. The holier than thou's that are perfect in their own eyes.

People can also be questionable in my ways, yet still function at their job perfectly fine.
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
That phenomenon is not limited to Americans. It is the anonymity of the internet that allows people to be more honest (or obnoxious) about their opinions. In person, most of us are not like what we sometimes say on the internet.

You haven't met my sister, have you?
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
We also saw the incredible power of the whistleblower, ie, Wikileaks.
I believe that with out them, the result would've been hugely reversed.
And here's the ironic thing....the released emails have not been even
challenged for accuracy, so the effect was based upon facts...albeit
well timed facts.
The most powerful people of our age might be Julian Assange & Matt Drudge.
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
By the way, Paul, you're the one reading into the "white male without a college education" the notion those are stupid people. Why do you think they're stupid? I grew up in a small, rural community in which many of the smartest people in town were white males without college educations. Just because someone lacks a college education doesn't make them stupid. I wish you wouldn't assume so.
I am fully aware of that, Sunstone. You know that that IS the intent of the bleating on this topic. Deplorable, stupid people.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
That's not what I said or implied. The Constitution does not set the requirements for a president's character. His character is actually of no consequence as long as he breaks no laws. As a congressman and as vice-president Nixon was seen to be inept. As president he was known to be a schmuck. If it weren't for that little Watergate debacle he probably would have finished out his term. Kennedy was a notorious womanizer. I could have actually said it all with two words... Bill Clinton.

The US Constitution sets the requirements for being president. Iirc, the main requirements are being a minimum age (I think 35) and being a natural born US citizen. The Constitution doesn't set any standards for federal agencies.
That may be so, but that's not my point. They should have at least have some credibility of conducting themselves professionally if they are a beacon to this country. If I go to work with jeans and a t-shirt on and still did my job, that would be fine legally. However, by employee standards, if I'm representing the company I work for, then I dress and act appropriate to the position I am working in. How we present ourselves reflects our character and, to outsiders looking it, it affects how we see people, their morals and whether their morals line up with their actions.

The president can have all the credentials in the world; but, that's not enough to be a representative of a country and handle foreign relations in "shorts and a t-shirt." A lot of private federal employers look at character for hiring people. We have a lot of stipulations in non-federal agencies, and a lot more in federal agencies, but to be president, there are only a few? That, to me, is ridiculous whether or not its by constitution isn't my point.
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
They should have at least have some credibility of conducting themselves professionally if they are a beacon to this country.

What is and what should be don't necessarily mesh. Professional is in the eye of the beholder.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
What is and what should be don't necessarily mesh. Professional is in the eye of the beholder.
Professionalism is set by different agencies who have dress and character standards to work in a specific office or position. In the work field, at least in government, its not the eye of the beholder. Also, that's why I said "should be"; I can't change anything, but at least I can form an opinion.
 

Notanumber

A Free Man
Interesting question. I don't know why, but Clinton didn't do as well with women as expected. For instance, she only captured about 51% of the women's vote in Florida according to one exit poll. In most other places, she was typically pulling in less than 55% of the woman's vote. Of course, those are exit polls, so one has to wonder how accurate they are.

I wonder if this had anything to do with the vicious way she attacked those women that Bill preyed upon.
 
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