Let's not talk about the Big Bang

[We Never Know]

You're simply misrepresenting an analogy because you don't like the poster.

My reply would be the same no matter who said it.

"One would think so but all that is presented is...

Earth is a sphere, there is no South of the South pole. Therefore the BB just happened and there was no before. Case closed lol"

 

[YoursTrue]

The thing is that I don't need the "God did it", to know biology work the way work, naturally.

All the "God did it" is the same superstitions used by other religions at that time, by their contemporary counterparts - the Egyptians, the Babylonians, the Persians, the Greeks, etc.

These religions have their own myths, and none of them explain anything concerning the Sun and Earth, and biology of life.

In facts, a lot of what they write about (about nature), are wrong, and that's including the Bible.

The Sun don't orbit the Earth, it is the Earth doing all the moving - the cycle of rotation on its axis, is what have Earth's surface shine with sunlight, or the absence of sunlight. The Earth also orbit around the Sun, not the other way around, and yet in Joshua, we have God stopping the sun's movement during a battle, which would mean the Sun orbiting the Earth.

Sorry, YoursTrue, but the Bible isn't accurate source of information about nature.

As to your comments about "heavens".

People can only write about what they know about at the time.

It is a very big stretch to believe that the ancient authors knew and saw more than today's astronomers about space.

In any given location on Earth, people in ancient (and medieval) times may be able to see and count about 2000 to 3000 stars, without the telescope...and that dependent on their eyesight.

And people who lived in ancient Israel, wouldn't see many of the stars in the southern hemisphere.

Today, we have been able to count the number of stars with the naked eye (meaning without binoculars or telescopes), the total number of stars that can be seen are less than 10,000 stars. That's only a tiny fraction in the over 200 billion stars in the Milky Way alone.

Before Edwin Hubble (in 1919), all astronomers assume there were only one galaxy in the universe. Hubble discovered that were many more galaxies between 1919 and 1953, many more galaxies that were misidentified as nebulas. Since Hubble, other astronomers have found many more galaxies, the number have increased exponentially. Even today, with the James Webb Space Telescope, we are still finding even more galaxies.

I think it is a mistake and intellectually dishonest for anyone to claim that Genesis authors were talking about "universe", when they are not.

I'm not sure what you mean when you say, "God did it." It's almost like what Stephen Hawking said as he wrote about his disability and how religion (false religion, I will add) believed that such disabilities were judgments from God. That is not true. He allows such things now, but He doesn't give individuals such problems. You may say it's "natural" and not going to contest that is how genetic problems work, but it is not "natural selection" or evolution and to imply it may be is out of the realm of reasonableness.

 

[YoursTrue]

The thing is that I don't need the "God did it", to know biology work the way work, naturally.

All the "God did it" is the same superstitions used by other religions at that time, by their contemporary counterparts - the Egyptians, the Babylonians, the Persians, the Greeks, etc.

These religions have their own myths, and none of them explain anything concerning the Sun and Earth, and biology of life.

In facts, a lot of what they write about (about nature), are wrong, and that's including the Bible.

The Sun don't orbit the Earth, it is the Earth doing all the moving - the cycle of rotation on its axis, is what have Earth's surface shine with sunlight, or the absence of sunlight. The Earth also orbit around the Sun, not the other way around, and yet in Joshua, we have God stopping the sun's movement during a battle, which would mean the Sun orbiting the Earth.

Sorry, YoursTrue, but the Bible isn't accurate source of information about nature.

As to your comments about "heavens".

People can only write about what they know about at the time.

It is a very big stretch to believe that the ancient authors knew and saw more than today's astronomers about space.

In any given location on Earth, people in ancient (and medieval) times may be able to see and count about 2000 to 3000 stars, without the telescope...and that dependent on their eyesight.

And people who lived in ancient Israel, wouldn't see many of the stars in the southern hemisphere.

Today, we have been able to count the number of stars with the naked eye (meaning without binoculars or telescopes), the total number of stars that can be seen are less than 10,000 stars. That's only a tiny fraction in the over 200 billion stars in the Milky Way alone.

Before Edwin Hubble (in 1919), all astronomers assume there were only one galaxy in the universe. Hubble discovered that were many more galaxies between 1919 and 1953, many more galaxies that were misidentified as nebulas. Since Hubble, other astronomers have found many more galaxies, the number have increased exponentially. Even today, with the James Webb Space Telescope, we are still finding even more galaxies.

I think it is a mistake and intellectually dishonest for anyone to claim that Genesis authors were talking about "universe", when they are not.

I agree that people (usually) write about what they know at the time. But obviously in ancient times people knew there were stars and the sun and the moon.

 

[We Never Know]

You're simply misrepresenting an analogy because you don't like the poster.

If I say... Earth is a sphere, there is no South of the South pole. Therefore the BB just happened and there was no before. Case closed!

Will you accept that, no questions asked?

 

[John53]

My reply would be the same no matter who said it.

"One would think so but all that is presented is...

Earth is a sphere, there is no South of the South pole. Therefore the BB just happened and there was no before. Case closed lol"

Not what was said but whatever, it's your witch hunt.

 

[Subduction Zone]

When silly folk imagine themselves to be educators of others, then they will be put in their place.

Are you describing yourself there? It sure sounds that way.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Halfway between the moon and earth, for example... Which way is South? North? East? West?

Nice way of telling use that you do not understand analogies without using the word "understand " or "analogy".

 

[Subduction Zone]

One would think so but all that is presented is...

Earth is a sphere, there is no South of the South pole. Therefore the BB just happened and there was no before. Case closed lol

Seriously, just admit that you do not understand analogies.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You're simply misrepresenting an analogy because you don't like the poster.

No, I think that he just does not understand how similar examples can be used to explain a complex subject. This is not the first time that I have seen him struggle with analogies. He is overly literal. And this was not even my analogy. It was introduced by Polymath.

 

[We Never Know]

Nice way of telling use that you do not understand analogies without using the word "understand " or "analogy".

No its a nice way if telling you direction doesn't exist in space. If you can only use earth, your are trapped in a box, you are lost on space.

There is no south of the moon. No south of Venus. No south of the BB.

 

[gnostic]

What I do realize is that it is possible that there were other writings that were eventually compiled in a piece eventually called a book as we know it (2 Chronicles), and yes, I do believe Solomon's words were relayed meaning recorded.

Except there are no OT writings until the late 7th century BCE. Most of the writings were composed in the 6th century BCE, during the Babylonian Exile and the return.

While writings do exist in the 10th century BCE, they are not related to the Hebrew scriptures.

So unless you can present tablets, parchments or papyri that dated to supposed Solomon's reign, then the OT writings are not as old as you believe.

 

[We Never Know]

Seriously, just admit that you do not understand analogies.

Here's an analogy for ya...

Most all birds fly because of feathers. If humans had feathers they could fly like a bird.

But could they really?

 

[Subduction Zone]

No its a nice way if telling you direction doesn't exist in space. If you can only use earth, your are trapped in a box, you are lost on space.

There is no south of the moon. No south of Venus. No south of the BB.

No, you simply misunderstand the use of the analogy. In space there are other ways to know directions. But that does not matter. The point was not to show a "direction" to time. It was merely stating that time as one approaches the Big Bang is like South as one approaches the South Pole. At the South Pole no direction is South. At the very start of the Big Bang there is no past, there is no time. It simply "is".

 

[YoursTrue]

Except there are no OT writings until the late 7th century BCE. Most of the writings were composed in the 6th century BCE, during the Babylonian Exile and the return.

While writings do exist in the 10th century BCE, they are not related to the Hebrew scriptures.

So unless you can present tablets, parchments or papyri that dated to supposed Solomon's reign, then the OT writings are not as old as you believe.

Unless I can present tablets? parchments or papyri, etc.? It's obvious to me at least that when they were compiled in their more or less present form they were taken from many centuries of copying.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Here's an analogy for ya...

Most all birds fly because of feathers. If humans had feathers they could fly like a bird.

But could they really?

That is not an analogy.

And penguins.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Unless I can present tablets? parchments or papyri, etc.? It's obvious to me at least that when they were compiled in their more or less present form they were taken from many centuries of copying.

Why assume that? Now I would not go as far as gnositic went. That there are no older writings is not absolute proof that there weren't any, but the appearance of all of the papers only after a specific date is very good evidence that that is when they were written.

For example the first stories of Noah's Flood do not appear until after the Babylonian captivity. The Babylonians already had their own older flood myth. And quite a few aspects of it appear to have been copied into the Hebrew one. Of course we do know that there never was a worldwide flood.

 

[We Never Know]

That is not an analogy.

And penguins.

Exactly! Don't forget the ostrich.

Birds fly because they have feathers and there is no south of earth are both kindergarten analogies. Not thinking outside the box.

 

[gnostic]

I'm not sure what you mean when you say, "God did it."

You quoted Genesis 1:1, YoursTrue, or have you forgotten?

That's textbook "God did it".

And as I said to before, sciences required not only logical explanations of natural phenomena, but also evidence to support what the phenomena are, and how the phenomena work.

The "God did it", ISN'T AN EXPLANATION FOR ANYTHING.

What it is, it is a claim based on superstitions.

Superstitions are not knowledge, YoursTrue. Superstitions are false understanding of the natural world, by mixing it with belief in the supernatural. And "God" and any "god", are as "supernatural" as they come.

Sciences don't do supernatural.

 

[We Never Know]

You quoted Genesis 1:1, YoursTrue, or have you forgotten?

That's textbook "God did it".

And as I said to before, sciences required not only logical explanations of natural phenomena, but also evidence to support what the phenomena are, and how the phenomena work.

The "God did it", ISN'T AN EXPLANATION FOR ANYTHING.

What it is, it is a claim based on superstitions.

Superstitions are not knowledge, YoursTrue. Superstitions are false understanding of the natural world, by mixing it with belief in the supernatural. And "God" and any "god", are as "supernatural" as they come.

Sciences don't do supernatural.

A god did it.
The BB did it.

Everything breaks down at a point. There is no before a god and no before the BB.

A god is uncaused and the BB is uncaused.

What's the difference besides the belief.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Exactly! Don't forget the ostrich.

Birds fly because they have feathers and there is no south of earth are both kindergarten analogies. Not thinking outside the box.

You are just not thinking.

If you do not understand an analogy you should be asking questions.