Ah, it might be difficult for some. Is English your native language?
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Let's not talk about the Big Bang
- Thread starter YoursTrue
- Start date
No. I don't think the BB 'emerged'.
Yes. I grew up in the center of the US and have lived in the US all my life. But I feel that Shakespeare needs to be translated. I just find it impossible to read and comprehend.
Curious which one.
Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
Ok, can we agree the universe began from "an idea that has nothing that corresponds to it",
Numbers 23:9. This is probably because that verse reflects my having, in recent years, come to regard the nation-state with a bit of a jaundiced eye. Partly this is because I feel that as with every human organization, it ends up being self serving, but mostly it is because I perceive that virtually every square foot of habitable land upon this earth is claimed as sovereign territory by one nation-state or another, severely limiting my personal movement on my “home planet”. In this, it is not so much the nation-state that I dislike, as the territorial nation-state. Also, I know that this is the logical consequence of human overpopulation, but that doesn’t seem to make me feel any better about the situation.
BTW, I also feel that Numbers 23:9 is one of the Biblical verses which most centrally describes the Israelite and Jewish people, and especially their traditional tendency towards aloofness and reluctance to assimilation. It bespeaks a people’s determination to maintain its particular identity, and I like that.
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joelr
Well-Known Member
I don't know about "many of you" and I am not "set in my beliefs".
I explained a misunderstanding you had regarding that quote. I also explained why astronomers and scientists expect there are many planets that can sustain life.
These are facts. So I'm asking what makes you believe that life isn't abundant in the universe. Your beliefs must have some basis?
Evolution is a different matter. It's just a change in heritable characteristics of biological populations over time. Even if it didn't have massive evidence and it was actually wrong it doesn't suggest we were created by a magic deity. Deities have not been demonstrated and violations of basic physical laws has not been demonstrated. So it's reasonable to believe some natural process happened. Incredible amounts of evidence also points that direction.
joelr
Well-Known Member
The Bible is stories compiled and written by men. Genesis is a re-working of Mesopotamian mythology, this is taught in advanced college Hebrew Bible courses at Yale and Harvard. Yahweh is a typical Near Eastern deity, the commandments are a small part of the Egyptian codes, Proverbs contains an Egyptian book of wisdom, and so on. It looks to be man-made, as all religious scriptures are.
Yahweh said many things that did not come to pass. He said everyone would bow to the Israelite religion. So there is no evidence that what the Bible says is a guide to future happenings.
This is no different than a Muslim saying "well the Quran says that....",
Other stars are too far away for us to ever get to other solar systems. Not for a long time at least. It's possible there is simple life on the moon Europa because it has water and volcanic vents. Life formed on Earth deep in water near vents as well. We don't know? Of course it's possible.
In the Late Antiquity and Middle Ages the Church thought is was insane to think the Earth wasn't the center of the universe and the sun revolved around it. Illness was caused by God or demons, as was the motion of planets, weather, earthquakes and most things. At this point holding on to archaic concepts based on a religions idea of what humanity is is clearly wrong. Yet for some reason some people cannot let it go.
What methodology did you use to determine life exists nowhere else except Earth? All of science believes life is probably common in the universe as does most religious people as well. The old school "it's only us" exists in small pockets of fundamentalists. Were this a few hundred years ago you would be saying germs are not real, God and devils create illness and telling me to have a nice day in your smugness.The life we can somewhat enjoy here is not found any other place. But if you think it may be found, hey, have a nice day if the elements beyond your control permit it.
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
I said neither. Both are actually nonsensical in context of what we are talking about.
I'm saying that time is a property of the universe. Just like space is.
At T = 0 there is no flow of time going on.
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
This makes any conversation about the topic with you an exercise in futility imo.
ratiocinator
Lightly seared on the reality grill.
The standard GR/space-time model doesn't 'begin' at all. The whole space-time is a 4-dimensional 'object'. Time is entirely internal to it. Things only begin within space-time.
mikkel_the_dane
My own religion
Well, I just learned to do the 7 different versions of science as per Danish culture different than your one natural science. So we are playing cognitive relativism and we deal with that differently.
Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
But if we look back in time, we are looking back to a beginning of spacetime. Perhaps science will one day have the ability to see the beginning. The light at the end of the tunnel.
ratiocinator
Lightly seared on the reality grill.
You are looking and the furthest point on one direction through the manifold. It makes no more sense to think that is going to give you an answers as to why the space-time exists than looking at the north pole for why the earth exists.
Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
I am not talking about why space time exists, I already know, you said time only happens in spacetime and I agree. But if there was a beginning, you may theoretically be able to see the beginning from within spacetime.
Care to explain your position on this, then? I can’t recall your having done so.
Still not addressing the issues of science and scientific methods. Again . . .
Naturalism, ie science, is never proven. Science must be independent of emotions, [culture] and reason and rational thinking is limited to the independent investigation of knowledge through the scientific methods, which you evade in almost all your posts.
Need a coherent answer. No games involved here accept you are avoiding to respond. Different variations due to Danish culture? Not remotely relevant without a coherent explanation and references as to how this relates to contemporary science..
The nature of the 'tunnel?' will likely be better explained in the future in the nature of the possible relationship between singularities and black holes
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Yes, appealing to ancient tribal philosophy has little to offer contemporary science.
No, the universe did not begin from an idea.