Let's not talk about the Big Bang

[shunyadragon]

Might a synonym of this be “an infinite space”?

I prefer the 'boundless matrix, because 'infinite space' has implications of our 'time./space' nature of our universe, which likely is not infinite, The 'boundless matrix' is more in line with the possibility of what is beyond our universe and all possible universes, and in line with the proposals by scientists like Hawking.

 

[shunyadragon]

That is because I don't think it 'came into existence'. It simply exists.

And I agree this definition is an idea that has nothing that corresponds to it. In this sense, there is no 'nothing'. I tend towards it not having a meaning at all.

I believe the 'nothing' is indeed not the layman concept of 'absolute nothing,' but more possibly descriptive of what may be called a 'boundless Quantum Matrix' beyond the space/time of our universe.

 

[shunyadragon]

Ok, so your position is that the BB emerged from "an idea that has nothing that corresponds to it", or a "no meaning" type of nothing.

The concept of 'an idea' has to many anthropomorphic implications.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Still not addressing the issues of science and scientific methods. Again . . .

Naturalism, ie science, is never proven. Science must be independent of emotions, [culture] and reason and rational thinking is limited to the independent investigation of knowledge through the scientific methods, which you evade in almost all your posts.

Need a coherent answer. No games involved here accept you are avoiding to respond. Different variations due to Danish culture? Not remotely relevant without a coherent explanation and references as to how this relates to contemporary science..

Well, science is also culture in a sense and I am from a different culture than you. So to as for your culture science is one thing. So me it is similar in some sense, yet also different in other aspects.
If you do an anthropological cross culture study of science, you will find that science is not independent of culture.
So I could site studies of the different culture of science and you would just claim that your culture is not really a culture, because of reasons...

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I believe the 'nothing' is indeed not the layman concept of 'absolute nothing,' bit more possibly descriptive of what may be called a 'boundless Quantum matrix beyond the space/time of our universe.

Can you observe that or is it a cognitive construct? Just clarify if it is the one or the other? I guess based on the rest of your words that it is the latter.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

No, the universe did not begin from an idea.

At Psalm 104:30 it says when God sends forth His spirit things are created.
Seem to me that God had an idea before sending forth His spirit.
God's Power and Strength (Isaiah 40:26) thus God supplied the abundantly needed dynamic energy to create the material realm of existence.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

But if we look back in time, we are looking back to a beginning of spacetime. Perhaps science will one day have the ability to see the beginning. The light at the end of the tunnel.

Does CMBR dating (Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation) give us that look far back to a beginning of spacetime?
The light at the end of the tunnel, or the light at the beginning of the tunnel ?

 

[ratiocinator]

Does CMBR dating (Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation) give us that look far back to a beginning of spacetime?

Not the very beginning, it's from about 380,000 years after the Big Bang (source).

 

[Polymath257]

Does CMBR dating (Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation) give us that look far back to a beginning of spacetime?
The light at the end of the tunnel, or the light at the beginning of the tunnel ?

No. The CMBR was formed about 300,000 years after the start of the expansion. Some aspects of it can give information about what happened earlier, but we don't see back to the beginning.

 

[Polymath257]

At Psalm 104:30 it says when God sends forth His spirit things are created.
Seem to me that God had an idea before sending forth His spirit.
God's Power and Strength (Isaiah 40:26) thus God supplied the abundantly needed dynamic energy to create the material realm of existence.

I don't find your creation story convincing.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

No. The CMBR was formed about 300,000 years after the start of the expansion. Some aspects of it can give information about what happened earlier, but we don't see back to the beginning.

To me it is interesting that you use the word ' expansion ' because Isaiah 40:22 mentions God stretches out the heavens.
( stretches out / expands by sending forth His spirit to create - Psalm 104:30 )
Jeremiah also mentions such spreading out at Jeremiah 10:12 B; 51:15
To me, God starting out the universe at those additional 300,000 plus years.......

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I don't find your creation story convincing.

You're not alone in your thinking, but do you think everything is spawned by energy ___________
The universe is expanding ( stretching out - Isaiah 44:24; 45:12 ) which is in harmony with Scripture.

 

[shunyadragon]

Well, science is also culture in a sense and I am from a different culture than you. So to as for your culture science is one thing. So me it is similar in some sense, yet also different in other aspects.
If you do an anthropological cross culture study of science, you will find that science is not independent of culture.
So I could site studies of the different culture of science and you would just claim that your culture is not really a culture, because of reasons...

No, science is NOT culture and indeed cross cultural by definition. Scientists of all the different diverse cultures of the world adhere to the same Scientific Methods and Methodological Naturalism regardless of culture. You need to get your English up to standard.

Oxford Languages and Google - English | Oxford Languages

Google’s English dictionary is provided by Oxford Languages. Oxford Languages is the world’s leading dictionary publisher, with over 150 years of experience creating and delivering authoritative dictionaries globally in more than 50 languages.

languages.oup.com

Culture - the customs, arts, social institutions, and achievements of a particular nation, people, or other social group.

Again failure to respond;

Naturalism, ie science, is never proven. Science must be independent of emotions, [culture] and reason and rational thinking is limited to the independent investigation of knowledge through the scientific methods, which you evade in almost all your posts.

Need a coherent answer. No games involved here accept you are avoiding to respond. Different variations due to Danish culture? Not remotely relevant without a coherent explanation and references as to how this relates to contemporary science..

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

No, science is NOT culture and indeed cross cultural by definition. Scientists of all the different diverse cultures of the world adhere to the same Scientific Methods and Methodological Naturalism regardless of culture. You need to get your English up to standard.

Oxford Languages and Google - English | Oxford Languages

Google’s English dictionary is provided by Oxford Languages. Oxford Languages is the world’s leading dictionary publisher, with over 150 years of experience creating and delivering authoritative dictionaries globally in more than 50 languages.

languages.oup.com

Culture - the customs, arts, social institutions, and achievements of a particular nation, people, or other social group.

Again failure to respond;

No, not in my culture. Sorry. In Danish science is not the same as in your culture. Science is in part a social institution as scientist are in a culture and a given culture influence the finer point of science or not.

 

[Polymath257]

You're not alone in your thinking, but do you think everything is spawned by energy ___________
The universe is expanding ( stretching out - Isaiah 44:24; 45:12 ) which is in harmony with Scripture.

Twisting ancient texts to conform to modern science is, in my opinion, dishonest.

 

[Polymath257]

To me it is interesting that you use the word ' expansion ' because Isaiah 40:22 mentions God stretches out the heavens.
( stretches out / expands by sending forth His spirit to create - Psalm 104:30 )
Jeremiah also mentions such spreading out at Jeremiah 10:12 B; 51:15
To me, God starting out the universe at those additional 300,000 plus years.......

Those texts compare the sky to a tent--in other words a covering over the Earth. That tent is what is being spread out. That has nothing to do with the modern observations of universal expansion.

 

[shunyadragon]

Can you observe that or is it a cognitive construct? Just clarify if it is the one or the other? I guess based on the rest of your words that it is the latter.

Can you observe that or is it a cognitive construct? Just clarify if it is the one or the other? I guess based on the rest of your words that it is the latter.

This is not based on a cognitive construct based on the current knowledge of Physics, Quantum Mechanics and Cosmology. Again your foolishness perpetuates itself stuck in ancient Newtonian Physics where you can only tell how many toes you have by counting them.

Please note the wording of my previous post: Note I said 'believe' and 'may be called' nonetheless it is based on the current knowledge of science, which you are totally oblivious of. Again also work on your understanding of the English language.

I believe the 'nothing' is indeed not the layman concept of 'absolute nothing,' bit more possibly descriptive of what may be called a 'boundless Quantum matrix beyond the space/time of our universe.

 

[shunyadragon]

You're not alone in your thinking, but do you think everything is spawned by energy ___________

No the current view of physics, Quantum Mechanics and Cosmology 'everything is not spawned by energy. You need to work on your knowledge of science.

The universe is expanding ( stretching out - Isaiah 44:24; 45:12 ) which is in harmony with Scripture.

Selective citations of scripture does not adequately describe the ancient tribal scriptural description of the physical nature and origins of our universe,

 

[ratiocinator]

You're not alone in your thinking, but do you think everything is spawned by energy ___________

What in earth are you talking about "spawned by energy"? You need something to have energy. You can't make things out of it.

 

[shunyadragon]

No, not in my culture. Sorry. In Danish science is not the same as in your culture. Science is in part a social institution as scientist are in a culture and a given culture influence the finer point of science or not.

You are still deficient in the basics of English language. Speaking from your own culture fails ro communicate in the basics of science and English. Danish culture? which you have failed to explain has no relevance to the universal nature of science, which by definition in English has no relationship to the many diverse and conflicting cultures of the world.