stevecanuck
Well-Known Member
LOL!
You give me grief for quoting a well known Islamic scholar, but you want me to respect a compter program that's been told what to say????
That is hilarious.
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Let's see if we can define 'Islamophobia'.
- Thread starter stevecanuck
- Start date
LOL!
You give me grief for quoting a well known Islamic scholar, but you want me to respect a compter program that's been told what to say????
That is hilarious.
stevecanuck
Well-Known Member
Correct. The word "promote" doesn't do justice to the overt command to kill that appears many times.
- 2:190 "Fight in the cause of Allah".
- 2:191 "And slay them ... slay them".
- 2:193 "Fight with them".
- 2:216 "Fighting is prescribed for you".
- 2:218 "those who ... fought (and strove and struggled) in the path of Allah".
- 2:286 "give us victory over the disbelieving people".
- 8:12 "Smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them".
- 8:17 "And you did not kill them, but it was Allah who killed them".
- 8:39 "fight them".
- 8:65 "O Prophet! rouse the Believers to the fight".
- 3:143 "And certainly you desired death [martyrdom in battle]".
- 3:145 "in their fight for the cause of God".
- 3:146 "grant us victory over the unbelievers".
- 3:152 "when you slew them by His permission".
- 3:157 "And if you are slain in the way of Allah or you die, certainly forgiveness comes from Allah".
- 3:167 "Come now, fight in the way of God".
- 3:169 "Think not of those who are slain in Allah's way as dead".
- 33:16 "Flight will not avail you if ye flee from death or killing".
- 33:18 "Allah knows those among you who do not come to the fight".
- 33:20 "They [Hypocrites] would not fight except for a little".
- 33:26 "some you [Mohamed] killed"
- 33:61 "wherever they are found they shall be seized and murdered, a (horrible) murdering".
- 4:71 "Believers, march [to battle] in small groups or all together".
- 4:74 "Those who want to buy the life hereafter with this life should fight for the cause of God".
- 4:75 "And what is wrong with you that you fight not in the Cause of Allah".
- 4:76 "Those who believe fight in the way of Allah, and those who disbelieve fight in the way of Satan. Fight therefore against the friends of Satan".
- 4:77 "when the fighting was ordained for them ... they say: 'Our Lord! Why have you ordained fighting for us?'"
- 4:84 "Then fight in Allah's cause ... and rouse the believers".
- 4:89 "seize them and slay them wherever ye find them".
- 4:91 "seize them and slay them".
- 4:94 "go forth [to fight] in the cause of Allah".
- 4:95 "Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) ... to those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah".
" Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight".
"Those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home)".
- 4:110 "Forsake your home in the cause of Allah".
- 4:104 "Relent not in pursuit of the enemy".
stevecanuck
Well-Known Member
- 47:4 "So when you meet those who disbelieve [in battle], strike their necks until, when you have inflicted slaughter upon them ...".
"God could have taken vengeance upon them, but (He ordered armed struggle) to test some of you ...".
"Those who are killed in the cause of Allah - never will He waste their deeds".
- 47:20 through 47:23 "when a precise surah is revealed and fighting is mentioned therein, you see those in whose hearts is hypocrisy looking at you with a look of one overcome by death... when the matter (preparation for Jihad) is resolved, then if they had been true to Allah [by fighting], it would have been better for them".
- 47:31 "We will surely test you until We make evident those who strive [wage jihad]".
- 47:35 "So do not weaken and call for peace while you are superior".
- 22:58 "Those who emigrated for the cause of Allah and then were killed or died - Allah will surely provide for them a good provision".
- 49:15 "The believers ... strive with their properties and their lives in the cause of Allah".
- 66:9 "O Prophet! Strive hard against the Unbelievers and the Hypocrites, and be firm against them".
- 61:4 "Truly Allah loves those who fight in His Cause in battle array, as if they were a solid cemented structure".
- 61:10 through 61:13 "Shall I lead you to a bargain that will save you from a grievous Penalty? You shall believe in Allah and His Messenger, and struggle hard in Allah's way with your property and your lives. He will admit you to Gardens. and other things you love, help from God and a nigh victory".
- 48:16 "You shall be called against a people possessed of great might to fight them".
- 48:29 "Muhammad is the messenger of Allah; and those who are with him are strong against Unbelievers".
- 5:33 "The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified".
- 5:35 - "O ye who believe! ... strive in His way".
- 5:54 "mighty against the unbelievers, they shall strive hard in Allah's way".
- 9;5, "kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush".
- 9:13 "Will you not fight a people who have violated their oaths and intended to expel the Messenger, while they did attack you first".
- 9:14 "Fight them, and Allah will punish them by your hands".
- 9:16 "Do you think that you will be left (as you are) while Allah has not yet made evident those among you who strive (for His cause)".
- 9:19 "strives in the cause of Allah".
- 9:20 "The ones who have believed, emigrated and striven in the cause of Allah with their wealth and their lives".
- 9:29 "Fight against those who have been given the Scripture [Jews and Christians]".
- 9:30 "The Christians say the Messiah is the son of Allah ... May Allah destroy them".
- 9:36 "Fight against the disbelievers".
- 9:38 "What is the matter with you, that, when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of Allah, ye cling heavily to the earth?".
- 9:39 "If you do not go forth, He will punish you".
- 9:41 "Go forth, light-armed and heavy-armed, and strive with your wealth and your lives in the way of Allah".
- 9:44 "Those who believe in God and the Day of Judgment do not ask you whether they should fight for the cause of God".
- 9:45 "It is only those who believe not in Allah and the Last Day and whose hearts are in doubt that ask your leave (to be exempted from Jihad)" [clarification added by Mohsin Khan translation].
- 9:52 "Can you expect for us (any fate) other than one of two glorious things- (Martyrdom or victory)?".
- 9:73 "O Prophet, fight against the disbelievers and the hypocrites and be harsh upon them".
- 9:81 "they hated to strive and fight with their properties and their lives in the Cause of Allah''.
- 9:86 "Believe in Allah and strive hard along with His Messenger".
- 9:88 "But the messenger and those who believe with him strive with their wealth and their lives".
- 9:93 "The blameworthy ones are those who ask for exemption [from fighting] despite their ability".
- 9:111 "Surely Allah has bought from the believers their persons and their property for this, that they shall have the garden; they fight in Allah's way, so they slay and are slain".
- 9:123 "Fight those of the disbelievers who are close to you"
"God could have taken vengeance upon them, but (He ordered armed struggle) to test some of you ...".
"Those who are killed in the cause of Allah - never will He waste their deeds".
- 47:20 through 47:23 "when a precise surah is revealed and fighting is mentioned therein, you see those in whose hearts is hypocrisy looking at you with a look of one overcome by death... when the matter (preparation for Jihad) is resolved, then if they had been true to Allah [by fighting], it would have been better for them".
- 47:31 "We will surely test you until We make evident those who strive [wage jihad]".
- 47:35 "So do not weaken and call for peace while you are superior".
- 22:58 "Those who emigrated for the cause of Allah and then were killed or died - Allah will surely provide for them a good provision".
- 49:15 "The believers ... strive with their properties and their lives in the cause of Allah".
- 66:9 "O Prophet! Strive hard against the Unbelievers and the Hypocrites, and be firm against them".
- 61:4 "Truly Allah loves those who fight in His Cause in battle array, as if they were a solid cemented structure".
- 61:10 through 61:13 "Shall I lead you to a bargain that will save you from a grievous Penalty? You shall believe in Allah and His Messenger, and struggle hard in Allah's way with your property and your lives. He will admit you to Gardens. and other things you love, help from God and a nigh victory".
- 48:16 "You shall be called against a people possessed of great might to fight them".
- 48:29 "Muhammad is the messenger of Allah; and those who are with him are strong against Unbelievers".
- 5:33 "The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified".
- 5:35 - "O ye who believe! ... strive in His way".
- 5:54 "mighty against the unbelievers, they shall strive hard in Allah's way".
- 9;5, "kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush".
- 9:13 "Will you not fight a people who have violated their oaths and intended to expel the Messenger, while they did attack you first".
- 9:14 "Fight them, and Allah will punish them by your hands".
- 9:16 "Do you think that you will be left (as you are) while Allah has not yet made evident those among you who strive (for His cause)".
- 9:19 "strives in the cause of Allah".
- 9:20 "The ones who have believed, emigrated and striven in the cause of Allah with their wealth and their lives".
- 9:29 "Fight against those who have been given the Scripture [Jews and Christians]".
- 9:30 "The Christians say the Messiah is the son of Allah ... May Allah destroy them".
- 9:36 "Fight against the disbelievers".
- 9:38 "What is the matter with you, that, when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of Allah, ye cling heavily to the earth?".
- 9:39 "If you do not go forth, He will punish you".
- 9:41 "Go forth, light-armed and heavy-armed, and strive with your wealth and your lives in the way of Allah".
- 9:44 "Those who believe in God and the Day of Judgment do not ask you whether they should fight for the cause of God".
- 9:45 "It is only those who believe not in Allah and the Last Day and whose hearts are in doubt that ask your leave (to be exempted from Jihad)" [clarification added by Mohsin Khan translation].
- 9:52 "Can you expect for us (any fate) other than one of two glorious things- (Martyrdom or victory)?".
- 9:73 "O Prophet, fight against the disbelievers and the hypocrites and be harsh upon them".
- 9:81 "they hated to strive and fight with their properties and their lives in the Cause of Allah''.
- 9:86 "Believe in Allah and strive hard along with His Messenger".
- 9:88 "But the messenger and those who believe with him strive with their wealth and their lives".
- 9:93 "The blameworthy ones are those who ask for exemption [from fighting] despite their ability".
- 9:111 "Surely Allah has bought from the believers their persons and their property for this, that they shall have the garden; they fight in Allah's way, so they slay and are slain".
- 9:123 "Fight those of the disbelievers who are close to you"
Wherenextcolumbus
Well-Known Member
Sorry but it was the early scholars who said it’s referring to child marriage - not us!
You’re trying to apply your own 2024 interpretations to a book written how long ago. We are reading from the experts.
There are Islamic websites telling us not to interpret Quran for ourselves but rely on scholars because they have studied Quran, Sunnah and what life was like at the time Muhammad lived for context, in depth, in Arabic. Most of us don’t know how to read and write in Arabic.
You need to look up the criteria for a scholar being able to even write tafsir.
Yes the verse is about making sure a divorced female is not pregnant but you can get pregnant before you have your first period, if someone has had sex with you during your first ovulation since you have to ovulate first before you menstruate.
Wherenextcolumbus
Well-Known Member
The person I mentioned said he is now ex-Muslim. studying the religion academically led him to no longer believe
BrightShadow
Active Member
Even ChatGPT can show you that all your quoted verses are out of context. Get ChatGPT 4
These are incident specific and primarily defensive directives and the verses are not for future non-Muslims. These are incident specific for about specific folks who attacked Muslims first.
All of them have been explained to you already in great detail.
At this point you are a broken record!
I can see why you don't get anyone to explain because they have done it already but you refuse to adjust your position.
BrightShadow
Active Member
Which early scholar told you this verse is about child marriage?
What did the so-called scholar actually say? Can you provide what you are reading and why you feel the verse is about child marriage?
What are you reading?
Which websites telling you not to read translated copies of the Quran?
You are sounding real innocent here and acting like you are trying to do the right thing by listening to those websites but in reality you are trying to adhere to a wrong implication willingly and gleefully without even trying to use your own brain to understand the simple context.
Wow! So, in other words - Quran is given away for free by many Mosques and organizations but they are telling you to not read it because you won't understand even the translated versions?
What did people do for hundreds of years until your so-called commentator decided to explain it?
The verse is from a chapter named "Divorce" and when you read verse 65:1 and 65:4 (in context) - you should be able to realize yourself that it is about "waiting period" to make sure the wife is not pregnant but instead of reading the verses yourself and accepting the context - you want to hang your own intelligence in the closet and seek some commenter to tell you what this verse is about? You find no reason to use your own head but to believe the commentator told you it is about child marriage. That is crazy!
By the way - a guy who is not even a Muslim anymore is educating you about Islam!
Smart! You are learning about Islam from someone who left Islam!
Why don't you simple listen to the OP right here - learn from him and join his fan-club. He has been putting out of context material for a long time and his fan-club has zero members. You could be the first member!
At this point all I can say -
[Quran 8:22] "Indeed, the worst of living creatures in sight of Allah are the deaf and dumb who do not use reason."
God even told Muhammad to not worry about educating some folks because they are not fit to be guided!
[Quran 28:56] You surely cannot guide whoever you like ˹O Prophet˺, but it is Allah Who guides whoever He wills, and He knows best who are ˹fit to be˺ guided.
stevecanuck
Well-Known Member
*Staff edit* The following two verses are the turning point that transformed Islam into a warrior religion. They were revealed after Mohamed moved to Yathrib and began attacking Meccan caravans. Until this time, both chronologically and in complilation order, fighting "in the cause of Allah" had not been a requirement:
For Mohamed to order military action against the pagans "in the cause of Allah", he was faced with being able to claim that clearly offensive strikes would be justified and in compliance with Allah's wishes. The Qur'an would therefore have to supply him with two revelations that were not included in any of the 86 Meccan surahs; a direct command to fight, and moral justification for taking lives. To that end, the following two verses were revealed:
- 2:190 - "And fight in the way of God with those; who fight with you, but aggress not: God loves not the aggressors."
- 2:191 - "And slay them wherever you come upon them, and expel them from where they expelled you; and persecution (fitnah) is more grievous than slaying. But fight them not by the Holy Mosque (Kaaba) until they should fight you there; then, if they fight you, slay them. Such is the recompense of unbelievers."
Verse 2:190 gives the Qur'an's first order to fight, albeit in self defense only. Therefore, it falls short of justifying an attack against the pagans as they had never initiated hostilities against the Muslims. Verse 2:191 not only solved that problem, but in the process set Islam on a doctrinal path likely more impactful than that of any other verse. It breaks down as follows:
- "And slay them wherever you come upon them" removes any doubt that blood-letting had been introduced to Islam.
- "and expel them from where they expelled you" is a clear reference to Mohamed's claim that the Muslims were forced to flee Mecca.
- "and persecution (fitnah) is more grievous than slaying" is the 'fight-in-self-defense-only' deal breaker. It introduced "fitnah" as a catch-all crime against Islam that, in the space of one verse, dropped self defense to second place as a reason to make war. In this case, it refers to Mohamed's alleged expulsion from Mecca and the pagan's use of the Kaaba for the blasphemous practice of idol worship. However, that was just the beginning of the influence that this verse had in shaping history. It not only provided the excuse Mohamed needed to attack the Meccans, and although it was crafted to solve a short term problem, it established the criteria (see verse 2:217 for further details) that has inspired Islamic jihad for 1400 years and counting.
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stevecanuck
Well-Known Member
Verse 2:217 is best examined in two parts. The first is little more than a reiteration of 191, but with one significant addition. The phrase "and to disbelieve in Him" has explicitly been included in the definition of "fitnah", thereby removing any argument that it has been unfairly read in. Verse 80:42 (and many others) tell us that, "These [who are sent to Hell] are they who are unbelievers, the wicked", but 2:217 further designates their degree of wickedness as "worse than killing": It may be difficult for those who are unfamiliar with the Qur'an to appreciate the line in the sand that statements like this draw, but make no mistake about it, this verse specifically calls unbelief (not being a Muslim) worse than murder - "They question thee (O Muhammad) with regard to warfare in the sacred month. Say: Warfare therein is a great (transgression), but to turn (men) from the way of Allah, and to disbelieve in Him and in the Inviolable Place of Worship, and to expel His people thence, is a greater (transgression) with Allah; for persecution (fitnah) is worse than killing".
The second part of 2:217 claims that the pagans will not cease fighting Muslims until they renounce Islam and become fuel for Hell. What it does not explain is how they could "not cease from fighting you", given that they had never started - "And they will not cease from fighting against you till they have made you renegades from your religion, if they can. And whoso become a renegade and die in his disbelief: such are they whose works have fallen both in the world and the Hereafter. Such are rightful owners of the Fire: they will abide therein".
stevecanuck
Well-Known Member
You've already been told. Mohsin Khan for one.
Mohsin Khan: And those of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the 'Iddah (prescribed period), if you have doubts (about their periods), is three months, and for those who have no courses [(i.e. they are still immature)
BrightShadow
Active Member
Are you coping and pasting from some anti-Islamic websites or are you coming up with this nonsense yourself?
So, now you are a story-teller? You are making up things. You are trying to change history.
You don't even deserve an answer but you are trying to fool people and that is wrong!
You already know that verse 2:190-194 has historical significance and it was revealed after the peace treaty of Hudaybiyyah between the Quraysh leaders of Mecca and Muslims. Qurayshis are indicated as the "disbelievers" and not any and all non-believers from todays world.
Despite the historical connection - you are also aware that it is not telling Muslims to be the aggressor - rather the verse is of a defensive nature.
But yet - you are trying cook another theory to make Muslims look bad - and I seriously don't have time for this nonsense.
You are cooking fake things for so long that you are actually beginning to believe your own nonsense.
If you cannot google for real answers and real contexts of the verses - ask ChatGPT - it should bring you back to the real world and real history and real context. You have this new tool (ChatGPT) - use it!
When you start from a wrong premise - you come to a wrong conclusion! Check history better, figure out who started what and what not! Google, ask ChatGPT - do some proper research.
In your case, you not only beginning with a wrong premise by mistake - you are inventing premises. Just like a premise was invented to make people believe Iraq had weapon of mass destruction and as a result millions were killed. Don't follow that path and create fake stuff.
By the way, why are you not posting anything against Jews and Christians who believe in the following verse in the Bible where infants are directed to be killed? This verse has been recently quoted by your beloved leader before he began his crusade and killed thousands of innocent babies already and probably will continue his killings.
In this verse in Bible innocent babies are directed to be killed 400 years later for crimes of their great great great great great grandfathers.
Check it out....
[1 Samuel 15:3] "Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy [1] everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys."
What did camels and donkeys do?
Be vocal about this verse. It is actually a verse that should be condemned!
gotti
*Banned*
I've got a problem with the extremely misogynistic interpretations of Islam that some factions within the international community adopt.
Often it seems to infect even western cultural Muslims who - even though they might like to think they adopt a lot of progressive ideals in the 1st world - seem to have their consciousnesses imbued with extremely conservative gender roles where women are essentially seen as second class citizens, especially in marriage (and the female women often seem conflicted with their values on this).
I don't like the word "islamophobia" at all.
There's a cultural conflict going on - mostly, it seems like we're doing well enough to get along these days - but it still exists.
I totally dispute the prefix "-phobia" because it implies that there's some kind of prejudice, discrimination or racism going on when it's simply a critique of a culture that isn't 100% compatible with western civilization 100% of the time.
Often it seems to infect even western cultural Muslims who - even though they might like to think they adopt a lot of progressive ideals in the 1st world - seem to have their consciousnesses imbued with extremely conservative gender roles where women are essentially seen as second class citizens, especially in marriage (and the female women often seem conflicted with their values on this).
I don't like the word "islamophobia" at all.
There's a cultural conflict going on - mostly, it seems like we're doing well enough to get along these days - but it still exists.
I totally dispute the prefix "-phobia" because it implies that there's some kind of prejudice, discrimination or racism going on when it's simply a critique of a culture that isn't 100% compatible with western civilization 100% of the time.
BrightShadow
Active Member
Absolutely wrong insinuation!
The chapter called Talaaq (Divorce) has 12 verses. If you read verses 1-7 you can understand the context yourself. You should not need someone else's understanding. Your scholar guy was actually a physician (with afghan origin). He worked at a Hospital as a department head. He grew up in Pakistan and studied and earned his initial degree in medicine and surgery from a university in Lahore, Pakistan. You prefer his translation because it is working for your agenda!
Each translation is good for some verses but not for others - because the person translating - is actually translating his perception of the verse (what he understood - not necessarily the intended message). His translation is biased due to his personal opinions and personal background.
You don't need tafsir for the verse in question. You need Tafsif for verses with historical context because without historical connection and without understanding the background you will not understand the true implication and meaning of a said verse BUT this chapter about "divorce" is quite simple and not hard to understand. Anyone should be able to read and comprehend -even from a translation.
Simply read verse 65:1 and then immediately read 65:4. They are a continued discussion.
The verse is obviously talking about divorce and NOT marriage and the most notable fact is the fact that - it is talking about maintaining the "waiting period" to make sure the wife is not pregnant during divorce time. It is obviously pointing out waiting period for women who are passed the age of monthly course, the women who are not sure BECAUSE they are mid cycle or just missed the cycle and thus did not have her period YET- because if they did miss it then it could mean they are pregnant. So, it is NOT about someone who is too young and never have had a period at all. That is ludicrous.
It seems - people like you (in the past) may have read this verse and may have mistakenly used it as a golden ticket to marry someone who is too young and did not begin their cycle.
If someone did misunderstood this verse then - that was wrong! They deliberately sought and found a default meaning by thinking it is about immature girls. They simply read between the lines and they wrongfully found a loop hole! If you take the entire Quran in context and understand verse 4:6 then you may realize that - the verse 65:4 is not ambiguous at all. It is actually quite obvious it is about "missed cycle" as in - no course yet that month! Doubts comes that you are pregnant when you miss cycle. It is not about young girls whose cycle didn't began yet.
You have to be crazy to think - it is about divorcing a child who now have to wait 3 months to re-marry. How many people were marrying and then divorcing a child before her period began?
I provided clear-cut verse 4:6 where it clearly mentions the words "marriageable age". It clearly uses the term "marriageable age" to an age where the person is of sound mind and good judgment. An age when someone can own property! Clear-cut comparison is shown in verse 4:6.
Instead of accepting verse 4:6; you are trying to transpose the intended message of another verse 65:4 and arrive to a reverse meaning of the verse that is actually was about divorce and "waiting period" to confirm a woman is not carrying a child.
Well! Believe what suits your agenda. You have been warn and told that 65:4 is not about child marriage.
I am done with this particular point. You are heading into "nowhere" anyhow. It doesn't matter if you had a pit-stop at child marriage!
BrightShadow
Active Member
gotti
*Banned*
What a crock.
ChatGPT is widely seen as heavily biased in favor of political correct approaches to defining things. It's not a reliable source for information.
Neither of those videos address my headline point regarding the extremely misogynistic interpretations of Islam that some factions within the international community adopt.
BrightShadow
Active Member
That is an example of heavily biased opinion!
Soon - all you will have is ChatGPT - it will have another name soon.
stevecanuck
Well-Known Member
Absolutely wrong insinuation!
The chapter called Talaaq (Divorce) has 12 verses. If you read verses 1-7 you can understand the context yourself. You should not need someone else's understanding. Your scholar guy was actually a physician (with afghan origin). He worked at a Hospital as a department head. He grew up in Pakistan and studied and earned his initial degree in medicine and surgery from a university in Lahore, Pakistan. You prefer his translation because it is working for your agenda!
Ermmmm, you think a chat bot is a legitimate source of scholarship, so you'll excuse me for not being moved by your 'argument'.
BrightShadow
Active Member
*staff edit*
Lily just put another video and it already got almost 9,000 views in two hours.
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Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
I think these are interesting articles:
www.historynewsnetwork.org
www.washingtoninstitute.org
What Is the Difference Between Islam and Islamism?
In the immediate aftermath of the September 11 tragedy, one commentator noted that the attacks climaxed almost two decades of terrorist acts committed in the name of Islam--a bloody, violent era that began with the suicide bombings against American and French peacekeeping forces in...
Muslims vs. Islamists
Islamism is not a form of the Muslim faith or an expression of Muslim piety; it is, rather, a political ideology that strives to derive legitimacy from Islam.
Wherenextcolumbus
Well-Known Member
I did not say you cannot read Quran yourself, I said you can’t rely on your own interpretation- you have to accept guidance from the scholars to make sure the interpretation is Islamic. It’s not only the Quran that has been translated into English but the Sunnah and some sharia manuals as well & some tafsir for non-Arabic speaking Muslims, because Quran alone doesn’t make up the religion. You should know this, to be honest.
I’m also not “trying to be innocent” as you suggested. I’m not Muslim. I’m saying what I’ve read from scholars and Islamic websites, i’m not applying my own interpretation to Quran - I don’t think I’m qualified to do so.
Yes the person I spoke with is ex-Muslim but only after studying the religion to a high standard and him being ex-Muslim means he’s not afraid to be honest about the controversial aspects