Let's Stop Pretending That Islam is a Religion of Peace

[YmirGF]

It is the society to enact secular laws so that criminal does not damage the rights of other lawful and innocent persons. No doubt the criminal as a human being has got certain rights but in no case he can be allowed to trespass the right of others and he must respect the right of the others. The punishment within the available resources must reform the criminal yet in no case the society should be left at the mercy of the criminal to repeat the crime again and again and again. There are other ethical, moral and spiritual aspect to the issue.
Regards

Wait.... What? Are you saying there are so-called "spiritual" aspects to lopping off peoples limbs? Seriously?

 

[Sees]

How come so few come to the rescue of the Bible, Christianity, the Catholic Church, etc. when they are constantly criticized and slandered on here?

Folks claiming to be so strongly against intolerance and bullying choose very strangely when it comes to what needs defending.

 

[paarsurrey]

no tax for them (tax was for protection instead of join Muslims in war) , the Muslim state obligate to help poor non-Muslims .

I agree with you.
Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

Just FYI - Non-Muslims can't really discuss or debate about Islam in the Islam DIR, only ask respectful questions. It would be a violation for this thread, even just the OP alone, to the be in the Islam DIR.

No harm, keep discussing things where everybody could express one's thoughts and sentiments freely and openly.
Regards

 

[Deidre]

This thread has been about bashing Islam. That's why it's wrong.

Soooo.... what should I glean from this thread? Is this thread's intent to teach all of us naive westerners how Islam is a religion of hate, and that we have all been duped here in the naive West about its intent?

 

[Rival]

So, are we allowed to point out anything that we think is bad about Islam at all?

Can one of the opponents of my claim tell me what the difference between 'bashing', 'attacking' 'vilifying' on one side and 'criticism' on the other is? Are we allowed to critique Islam at all?

 

[Princeps Eugenius]

This thread has been about bashing Islam. That's why it's wrong.

Soooo.... what should I glean from this thread? Is this thread's intent to teach all of us naive westerners how Islam is a religion of hate, and that we have all been duped here in the naive West about its intent?

i know arab people, who were muslims themselves, who say these things exactly.

 

[YmirGF]

This thread has been about bashing Islam. That's why it's wrong.

Soooo.... what should I glean from this thread? Is this thread's intent to teach all of us naive westerners how Islam is a religion of hate, and that we have all been duped here in the naive West about its intent?

You might want to talk to Lyndon because he is claiming

Except that its by no means normal to defend Islam as a religion of peace in the West, what is normal is to attack vilify and lie about Islam in any way possible, as has been done in this thread.

In answer to your question though, what is a very real problem is that the average person in "the West" knows diddly squat about Islam and wouldn't know if what they were being told is fact or fiction. That would include a couple of people posting in this thread.

 

[Deidre]

This is not a critique, as can be seen in many other threads relating to Islam. This is a bash-fest. The very thread title creates hostility, because it implies that people who believe Islam to be a religion of peace, are liars. And the thread has many comments that sort of follow suit with that.

 

[paarsurrey]

I wasn't asked about them, this thread wasn't about them. I don't defend the Team America: World Police aspect of our military, I wish we would butt the heck out of most of these horsepoop wars we create.
On the other hand protecting a country and territorial battles are infinately more understandable to me than some insane jihad where the motiviation is based on religious delusions that God is leading your army against your enemies and you are fighting for ideology and nothing concrete.

Nobody should wage war in the name of religion or G-d or democracy or new world order.
Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

This is not a critique, as can be seen in many other threads relating to Islam. This is a bash-fest. The very thread title creates hostility, because it implies that people who believe Islam to be a religion of peace, are liars. And the thread has many comments that sort of follow suit with that.

Thanks for your comments.
Regards

 

[raph]

So, are we allowed to point out anything that we think is bad about Islam at all?

Can one of the opponents of my claim tell me what the difference between 'bashing', 'attacking' 'vilifying' on one side and 'criticism' on the other is? Are we allowed to critique Islam at all?

Critisism would be a fair judgement of what Islam actually is.
Bashing would be judging something, that is not even true about Islam.

Example
Criticism 1: it is bad that taxes and military service is based on religion in Islam.
Bashing 1: Islam mafia takes protection money from jews who are regarded as second class citizens.

Criticism 2: It is not good to hit women even if they break the law and you tried everything else.
Bashing 2: Omg Islam Macho religion allows hitting women.

 

[Deidre]

You might want to talk to Lyndon because he is claiming


In answer to your question though, what is a very real problem is that the average person in "the West" knows diddly squat about Islam and wouldn't know if what they were being told is fact or fiction. That would include a couple of people posting in this thread.

I was very much interested in Islam as a practice for myself this year, and what turned me away was Sharia Law and the concept of Jesus, in Islam. I understand it. I live in the US. Culturally, my life wouldn't be much different if I converted to Islam, because I live in a society that governs with secular laws. Culturally, anyone's life would be vastly different, whether following Islam or not, if he/she lived in the middle east, for example. I think it's an unfair comparison to Islam, to imply that there is a ''Western version'' of it. There is no Western version of Islam. The US is culturally different, and governed by secular law, but it allows people to have religious freedoms. It is odd that no one throws a fit over the OT, when it comes to Christianity, but there are violent passages in the Bible, as well. There are over 1.5 BILLION Muslims in the world...if you think that the majority of them are violent, or would be violent because the Qur'an is telling them so, then we will have to agree to disagree. lol

 

[paarsurrey]

Muslims ruled Spain for around 400 years, didn't Spain become the best region in Europe at the era of the dark age ?
They conveyed knowledge, civilization and science to Europe and not destruction.
How you think Islam is bad while the history proves the opposite ?

Thanks and regards

 

[Rival]

Critisism would be a fair judgement of what Islam actually is.
Bashing would be judging something, that is not even true about Islam.

Example
Criticism 1: it is bad that taxes and military service is based on religion in Islam.
Bashing 1: Islam mafia takes protection money from jews who are regarded as second class citizens.

Criticism 2: It is not good to hit women even if they break the law and you tried everything else.
Bashing 2: Omg Islam Macho religion allows hitting women.

"Bashing 1" is true. What is jizyah if not protection money?

"Bashing 2" is true. The Qur'an orders husbands to beat wives from whom they fear rebelliousness.

 

[Lyndon]

You can't stop, can you???

 

[YmirGF]

There are over 1.5 BILLION Muslims in the world...if you think that the majority of them are violent, or would be violent because the Qur'an is telling them so, then we will have to agree to disagree. lol

I usually chuckle when people toss this non-argument out as if it were actually meaningful. Who, exactly, is saying that ALL Muslims are violent little time bombs waiting for the "good to go" sign from their local high strung Imam? I have often used the analogy of Catholics when describing Muslims to people who have a low understanding of Islam as they can usually relate to Catholics. What I point out is the term small "c" Catholics who will tell you they are Catholics if you ask them, but they rarely attend church and probably could not name the current Pope. Then there are moderate Catholics who attend church more or less regularly and are up on current events in the church... And then there are folks who go everyday etc.... I try to convey a similar image of Muslim society. There are small "m" Muslims, or "Muslims" in name only, all the way up to foaming at the mouth radicalized firebrands looking for a batch of infidels to waylay.

What really fries my bacon is that if anyone says anything remotely unflattering about Islam there is a concerted effort to stifle that person. There is an almost instantaneous scream of "Islamophobia" that is never intended to further a conversation. It's always about shutting it down. Then there are the moral equivalency Muppets who will wrap themselves up in equivalency logic pretzels in an attempt to rationalize it all away. And then we get to the Muslim reactions to comments about Islam...

 

[Rival]

You can't stop, can you???

Not until it's hammer time

 

[Deidre]

I usually chuckle when people toss this non-argument out as if it were actually meaningful. Who, exactly, is saying that ALL Muslims are violent little time bombs waiting for the "good to go" sign from their local high strung Imam? I have often used the analogy of Catholics when describing Muslims to people who have a low understanding of Islam as they can usually relate to Catholics. What I point out is the term small "c" Catholics who will tell you they are Catholics if you ask them, but they rarely attend church and probably could not name the current Pope. Then there are moderate Catholics who attend church more or less regularly and are up on current events in the church... And then there are folks who go everyday etc.... I try to convey a similar image of Muslim society. There are small "m" Muslims, or "Muslims" in name only, all the way up to foaming at the mouth radicalized firebrands looking for a batch of infidels to waylay.

what's the point of this thread then? who is the 'let's' in the title?

I chuckle when people back pedal and we are supposed to accept that as a suitable ''rebuttal.''

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Sorry but that's not logically similar at all.

Why not?