Let's Stop Pretending That Islam is a Religion of Peace

[icehorse]

Do you know any Muslims personally in your offline life?

In fact I do know Muslims. And your questions is almost totally off the point. I was addressing your claim that you found Islam to be okay.

I really think you ought to go read the UNDHR - it's a quick, easy read. And then sincerely ask yourself why Islamic leaders were outraged by this document?

 

[YmirGF]

In fact I do know Muslims. And your questions is almost totally off the point. I was addressing your claim that you found Islam to be okay.

I really think you ought to go read the UNDHR - it's a quick, easy read. And then sincerely ask yourself why Islamic leaders were outraged by this document?

And felt a need to Islamify it with their own declaration.

 

[Shad]

How come so few come to the rescue of the Bible, Christianity, the Catholic Church, etc. when they are constantly criticized and slandered on here?

Folks claiming to be so strongly against intolerance and bullying choose very strangely when it comes to what needs defending.

Islam is the new pet of many liberals. They can go on and on about Christianity but as soon as someone say anything negative about Islam people come out of the woodwork. I call it the Affleck effect.

 

[Deidre]

In fact I do know Muslims. And your questions is almost totally off the point. I was addressing your claim that you found Islam to be okay.

I really think you ought to go read the UNDHR - it's a quick, easy read. And then sincerely ask yourself why Islamic leaders were outraged by this document?

Okay, so what do you hope to happen for the future of Islam? I'm not a follower of Islam, for I had issues with different aspects of it.

I'm still trying to gather the point of the thread. Is it mainly to vent for those who loathe Islam, or is there some other point of it?

 

[FearGod]

This is exactly what surah 4:34 says:

(Several different translations)

4:34 Husbands should take full care of their wives, with [the bounties] God has given to some more than others and with what they spend out of their own money. Righteous wives are devout and guard what God would have them guard in the husbands’ absence. If you fear high-handedness from your wives, remind them [of the teaching of God], then ignore them when you go to bed, then hit them. If they obey you, you have no right to act against them. God is most high and great.

Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret what Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High Exalted, Great.

Men have authority over women because God has made the one superior to the other, and because they spend their wealth to maintain them. Good women are obedient. They guard their unseen parts because God has guarded them. As for those from whom you fear disobedience, admonish them and forsake them in beds apart, and beat them. Then if they obey you, take no further action against them. Surely God is high, supreme.

It isn't even if it's proven, but only if the husband fears rebellion!

I object to beating one's wife.

The verse is misinterpreted by the scholars, strike which means go in strike as means of protesting, the verse says leave their beds and go in strike,
strike in Arabic has 2 meanings similar to English, to beat or to protest.

 

[Sees]

The verse is misinterpreted by the scholars, strike which means go in strike as means of protesting, the verse says leave their beds and go in strike,
strike in Arabic has 2 meanings similar to English, to beat or to protest.

^ this is just disrespectful and all the justification needed for threads like this to exist.

 

[Shad]

The verse is misinterpreted by the scholars, strike which means go in strike as means of protesting, the verse says leave their beds and go in strike,
strike in Arabic has 2 meanings similar to English, to beat or to protest.

No it doesn't. You are changing the context of the word in order to change the definition of the word. It is not talking about any strike since the word has nothing to do with protesting strikes. Besides you ignore the fact that one of the previous steps already covers not sharing a bed. Thus your explanation shows a redundancy of parts of the verse which is an error. Step 1, talk. Step 2 leave the home hence no longer sharing the bed anyways. Step 3 stop sharing a bed. Pure nonsense. Your explanation is incoherent give this redundancy and the fact there is an escalation of solutions with each one having a more drastic act to follow. Never mind the corroborating secondary sources agreeing with my views not your own.

 

[FearGod]

^ this is just disrespectful and all the justification needed for threads like this to exist.

Is it disrespectful to leave your wife alone for sometime if there's aversion between both of you ?

 

[FearGod]

No it doesn't. You are changing the context of the word in order to change the definition of the word. It is not talking about any strike since the word has nothing to do with protesting strikes. Besides you ignore the fact that one of the previous steps already covers not sharing a bed. Thus your explanation shows a redundancy of parts of the verse which is an error. Step 1, talkthe bed. Step 2 leave the home hence no longer sharing the bed anyways. Step 3 stop sharing a bed. Pure nonsense. Your explanation is incoherent give this redundancy and the fact there is an escalation of solutions with each one having a more drastic act to follow. Never mind the corroborating secondary sources agreeing with my views not your own.

How to leave their bed then beating them, that's nonsense and stupid way in analyzing the actual meaning of the sentence.
How you beat while you left ?

 

[Deidre]

The one thing I'll say to all of this is...does anyone really need a religion to handle a domestic dispute? lol That is often why religion in a general sense, gets such a bad rap. If I ever marry, I'm not looking to Christianity to tell me every move to make as a wife. I can't help but wonder if people were more ...pliable back during the times that these ancient texts were written. Idk.

 

[Shad]

How to leave their bed then beating them, that's nonsense and stupid way in analyzing the actual meaning of the sentence.
How you beat while you left ?

Not it is not since you fail to understand escalation of solutions which is clearly in the verse. When talking to them fails the husband leaves. When this fails the Husband abuses his wife. Your solution is to talk, leave then leave some more. Hilarious. Also you ignore ahadith in which Bakr and Mo both hit women. More so Mo told a woman complaining to him about being beat by her husband to go back to the husband. Which clearly shows that beating a wife is acceptable rather then objectionable. Your own tradition contradicts your view.

Beside that fact in the Quran lexicon not a single definition covers protest. You are making up definition as you go in the form of cognitive dissonance in order to rescue your religion from what it is.

 

[David1967]

It is just a neutral word really. I was called infidel by Christians and I could not get angry at them because in their mind and definition, I might very well be an infidel. But I agree, it is ugly.

Edit:
I mean could not get angry. Fixed.

Where I am from I have only heard the term Infidel only used for people who do not believe in God, not those of a different faith. It is such a hateful term I would not use it toward anyone period. And certainly never toward anyone who has a different view of God or who His prophet or prophets are. I have respect for anyone sincerely seeking God whether or not I completely agree with them or not. My belief is that when we one day stand before God we will all realize that we were lacking in certain areas.

 

[Shad]

The one thing I'll say to all of this is...does anyone really need a religion to handle a domestic dispute? lol That is often why religion in a general sense, gets such a bad rap. If I ever marry, I'm not looking to Christianity to tell me every move to make as a wife. I can't help but wonder if people were more ...pliable back during the times that these ancient texts were written. Idk.

No it reflected history in which men dominated the world to a far greater extent than women. This is a known fact and was acceptable for many.

 

[Lyndon]

Now the bashers are claiming to know arabic and be expert on meanings of arabic words, just shows how ridiculous this debate has gotten.

 

[FearGod]

Not it is not since you fail to understand escalation of solutions which is clearly in the verse. When talking to them fails the husband leaves. When this fails the Husband abuses his wife. Your solution is to talk, leave then leave some more. Hilarious. Also you ignore ahadith in which Bakr and Mo both hit women. More so Mo told a woman complaining to him about being beat by her husband to go back to the husband. Which clearly shows that beating a wife is acceptable rather then objectionable. Your own tradition contradicts your view.

The verse is very clear but you only have an allergy from Islam.

(4:34) Men are the protec-tors and maintainers of women56 because Allah has made one of them excel over the other,57 and because they spend out of their possessions (to support them). Thus righteous women are obedient and guard the rights of men in their absence under Allah's protection.58 As for women of whom you fear rebellion, admonish them, and remain apart from them in beds, and beat them.59 Then if they obey you, do not seek ways to harm them. Allah is Exalted, Great.

Admonish them first, 2nd is leaving their bed, how the 3rd can be beating while he left her alone.
Also how you beat with no reason, will he leave the bed then return back to beat, OMG, really you can't fix stupid

 

[YmirGF]

Now the bashers are claiming to know arabic and be expert on meanings of arabic words, just shows how ridiculous this debate has gotten.

One does not need to be fluent in Arabic to rebuff these types of arguments. One only need consult the majority of "scholars" and the majority of translations.

 

[YmirGF]

The verse is very clear but you only have an allergy from Islam.

(4:34) Men are the protec-tors and maintainers of women56 because Allah has made one of them excel over the other,57 and because they spend out of their possessions (to support them). Thus righteous women are obedient and guard the rights of men in their absence under Allah's protection.58 As for women of whom you fear rebellion, admonish them, and remain apart from them in beds, and beat them.59 Then if they obey you, do not seek ways to harm them. Allah is Exalted, Great.

Admonish them first, 2nd is leaving their bed, how the 3rd can be beating while he left her alone.
Also how you beat with no reason, will he leave the bed then return back to beat, OMG, really you can't fix stupid

Regardless how it is interpreted the passage does not paint women in a very favorable light.

 

[FearGod]

No it reflected history in which men dominated the world to a far greater extent than women. This is a known fact and was acceptable for many.

Do you know really what was going on before 1400 years ago, tell us what did you see, time machine, i thought it was a movie.

 

[FearGod]

Regardless how it is interpreted the passage does not paint women in a very favorable light.

Isn't women treated like candies somewhere in the west, taste and then throw away and find a new look and a different taste.

 

[Shad]

The verse is very clear but you only have an allergy from Islam.

Nope. I used the Quranic lexicon, your own sources, for my views.

(4:34) Men are the protec-tors and maintainers of women56 because Allah has made one of them excel over the other,57 and because they spend out of their possessions (to support them). Thus righteous women are obedient and guard the rights of men in their absence under Allah's protection.58 As for women of whom you fear rebellion, admonish them, and remain apart from them in beds, and beat them.59 Then if they obey you, do not seek ways to harm them. Allah is Exalted, Great.

Which is what my sources say.

Admonish them first, 2nd is leaving their bed, how the 3rd can be beating while he left her alone.
Also how you beat with no reason, will he leave the bed then return back to beat, OMG, really you can't fix stupid

It is called you go back and hit them son. You know how to walk correct? Do you know what escalation of solutions are correct? The reason you beat the wife is due to her rebellion against the husband which is spelled out in the opening of the verse you cited. Do you read what you type?

More so your explanation is redundant showing an error from your supposed God given text. Thanks for refuting your own texts claims about errors. Try again son.