Let's Stop Pretending That Islam is a Religion of Peace

[Sees]

Yet you clearly stated selling alcohol was a crime punishable by death, which is a lie except possibly for ISIS.

It is not a lie, traditional jurisprudence sentencing is 40-80 lashings for up to 3 offenses and any additional offense is death. Nations and groups have different levels of leniency and conformity.

 

[Godobeyer]

Most times people quote a hadith to discuss what they dislike about Islam it is Sahih Muslim or Sahih Bukhari...what does Sahih mean?

sahih mean "correct"

i cant take my sources from Anti-Islam sites .

so if let's give us the Sahih Hadith verse then check it out if it's true , then seek for it's refence tafsir (why,when this hadith tells) .

 

[Rival]

your OP is taken from ISLaMIC SITE , that's impossible .
We believe that , so what we suppose to say ?

I wrote the OP. I took quotes from all over.

The quotes about alcohol were taken directly from an Islamic site, and all the hadith in the OP are Sahih. So again, don't pull this false hadith stuff on me.

 

[Theweirdtophat]

It's utterly absurd. Why don't you say all Buddhists are bad because the Burmese are oppressive to non-Buddhists. Most people who despise Muslims never even met an actual Muslim in real life. I have and I know from experience there are good Muslims as well as bad. But people love making excuses and just want to hate something, so they pick a group, rip a few quotes from their book, look at some cultures and use it to justify hating them. It's asinine.

 

[Lyndon]

It is not a lie, traditional jurisprudence sentencing is 40-80 lashings for up to 3 offenses and any additional offense is death. Nations and groups have different levels of leniency and conformity.

Citation please, from a Muslim source??

 

[Godobeyer]

I wrote the OP. I took quotes from all over.

The quotes about alcohol were taken directly from an Islamic site, and all the hadith in the OP are Sahih. So again, don't pull this false hadith stuff on me.

so i just curious why you don't put this thread in Islam DIR to ask the Muslims about , instead of argue it here ?

why you pretending that you know Islam more than Muslims?

 

[Demonslayer]

What major religion can claim to be the one of peace?

None. When it comes to religion and bad behavior, it's like smoking and lung cancer. Sure, not all smokers get lung cancer, but a lot of them do and if you smoke enough you're bound to get it.

So some people can puff a little religion and it makes them feel good, and we see no ill effects. But many others display cancers such as xenophobia, homophobia, hatred/distrust of other religions, negative views of human sexuality, etc. When mob mentality is added to the mix due to a Theocratic environment, we see widespread violence and brutality like we see is Islamic theocracies today.

Make no mistake, we'd see the same thing if we had Christian theocracies. The only reason the wingnuts in this country aren't murdering homosexuals as Kansas pastor Curtis Knapp recently suggested we should, is because our secular society protects us from religious based law. Only secularism protects us from the same type of "culture" (driven by religion) that we see dominating and ruining the Middle East and swallowing up Europe.

Religion does not bring peace. Religion does not make people good. Religion serves only the individual that follows it.

 

[Nietzsche]

It should be noted that historically, Islam has gone through several deep changes. The last(as in most recent) one was a reaction against what had been a more or less rationalist, liberal interpretation of the faith. The Islamic Golden Years were largely tossed aside in the homeland of the faith, though you can still see shades of what it used to be in places like Bosnia, Jordan, Albania, Turkey.

You might say that's an example of "Western Islam". Geographically, you're right, they are indeed west of the heartlands of Islam. But culturally "western values" traveled west through these places and were adopted because of the cultural exchanges through the centuries. The Byzantines/Eastern Romans certainly had no desire to share the works of ancient Greece with the world, they were only opened up and spread after the Osmans took it from them.

Don't think I'm going soft on Islam, though. If anything, this makes me far, far more angry than if it were simply they'd been terrible from the start.

 

[Rival]

It's utterly absurd. Why don't you say all Buddhists are bad because the Burmese are oppressive to non-Buddhists. Most people who despise Muslims never even met an actual Muslim in real life. I have and I know from experience there are good Muslims as well as bad. But people love making excuses and just want to hate something, so they pick a group, rip a few quotes from their book, look at some cultures and use it to justify hating them. It's asinine.

Because this isn't about individual Muslims. This is about ISLAMIC TEACHING.

I have met many Muslims. I see them at college everyday.

 

[Theweirdtophat]

You hear people lay down quotes from the Quran that speak against hurting, torturing, and force conversion yet you shake your head like an child and say "Nope, nope, it's not a religion of peace. " Do you just skip all the good parts and pick the bad parts so you can use it to justfiy hating them? Why would you even do that? Besides do you have any idea how old the Quran is? Pretty old. Muslims of today aren't the same as they were before. Things do change. Christianity, Zoroastrianism even Judaism makes changes.

You see people hating Muslims for what their ancestors did. The ones responsible for violence in the name of Islam have been dead for over a thousand years. Why blame their descendents? Doesn't anyone see how illogical it is to hate an entire group because of a few quotes from the book and what their ancestors did? Am I the only one that sees this? Stop trying to make justifications.

 

[Theweirdtophat]

The Muslims that know right from wrong will listen to the good parts. You may as well say Judaism isn't a religion of peace as it has some messed up stuff, even the New Testament of Dharmic scriptures. Multiple people wrote the Quran you know, just like the other books.

 

[Demonslayer]

You see people hating Muslims for what their ancestors did. The ones responsible for violence in the name of Islam have been dead for over a thousand years.

Huh? What about the ones flying planes into buildings, blowing up every other marketplace, and chopping people's heads off in the name of Jihad?

Look I know Muslim people, I get what you're saying that we shouldn't lump every Muslim in with terrorists, and you're right about that.

But pretending Islamic driven violence is a thing of the past is just silly and dangerous.

 

[Sees]

Citation please, from a Muslim source??

I had to light up a cigarrette and open a beer for this

do you know what hudud is?

 

[Rival]

You hear people lay down quotes from the Quran that speak against hurting, torturing, and force conversion yet you shake your head like an child and say "Nope, nope, it's not a religion of peace. " Do you just skip all the good parts and pick the bad parts so you can use it to justfiy hating them? Why would you even do that? Besides do you have any idea how old the Quran is? Pretty old. Muslims of today aren't the same as they were before. Things do change. Christianity, Zoroastrianism even Judaism makes changes.

You see people hating Muslims for what their ancestors did. The ones responsible for violence in the name of Islam have been dead for over a thousand years. Why blame their descendents? Doesn't anyone see how illogical it is to hate an entire group because of a few quotes from the book and what their ancestors did? Am I the only one that sees this? Stop trying to make justifications.

A lot of those more peaceful Meccan verses have been abrogated by Medinan verses. So I don't quote them, or try not to.

 

[Lyndon]

Huh? What about the ones flying planes into buildings, blowing up every other marketplace, and chopping people's heads off in the name of Jihad?

Look I know Muslim people, I get what you're saying that we shouldn't lump every Muslim in with terrorists, and you're right about that.

But pretending Islamic driven violence is a thing of the past is just silly and dangerous.

Yeah and the American Military is incredibly violent too but I don't see you talking about them.

 

[Sees]

Actually instead of asking Lyndon if he knows what hudud is.....

Do we have any Muslims (or Islamophiles) on this site who have truly studied Islam in depth outside of reading the Qur'an, doing their prayers, reading some sunnah of Muhammad now and then, reading/watching some apologetics websites and videos?? I'm really curious and would love for them to join in here.

 

[Rival]

I guess that guy who caught with homemade wine in Saudi Arabia was let off without a warning and told to come back anytime...

 

[Theweirdtophat]

Huh? What about the ones flying planes into buildings, blowing up every other marketplace, and chopping people's heads off in the name of Jihad?

Look I know Muslim people, I get what you're saying that we shouldn't lump every Muslim in with terrorists, and you're right about that.

But pretending Islamic driven violence is a thing of the past is just silly and dangerous.

You misunderstand me. I said people will use that as an excuse to hate them. Honestly if you added all the Muslim terrorists in the world, they'd make less than 1% of Islam. There's over a billion and hundreds of millions of them don't go around stoning non believers or blowing up stuff. Most act like other people.

Let's not pretend either that terrorism applies to Islam. You have any idea how many Christian terrorists there are or atheist or Jewish or even Sikh terrorists? Yeah they don't get talked about much, but it doesn't mean they don't exist. Some even still exist to this day.

 

[Theweirdtophat]

I guess that guy who caught with homemade wine in Saudi Arabia was let off without a warning and told to come back anytime...

Why do people act as if all Muslims have the same beliefs rules and customs? They don't. Each group has it's own rules and customs, some are more lenient, others are strict and conservative. Again, don't lump them in all one group and say "They are all the same." They aren't.

 

[Sees]

Why do people act as if all Muslims have the same beliefs rules and customs? They don't. Each group has it's own rules and customs, some are more lenient, others are strict and conservative. Again, don't lump them in all one group and say "They are all the same." They aren't.

Do you think Saudis are too strict? They are more lenient than need be.