Let's Talk About Shiva

[Jimmy]

Yes. Sanatana Dharma is the actual correct name for what is known as Hinduism today. Hinduism is a term coined by outsiders to the religion. We're stuck with it now.

I wasn’t asking about the name. I’m asking about if the eternal concept was the view of the majority.

 

[JustGeorge]

Is this eternal view the majority of Hindus?

Yes. Its in the name, as has been explained.

To take away 'eternal' would be the same as to take 'Christ' out of Christianity. It would be a different religion.

then what the point of a creator and destroyer if things are eternal?

Think of the cycles of the seasons. Things die in the winter. Return in the spring. Bloom, flourish, and die again. They come back. Eternal.

or is like Christianity that has a beginning and an ending, but also has the concept of eternal life in heaven?

No. Eternal life in heaven is not a concept in Hinduism. There are heavenly realms that one may go to, but until one obtains 'union' with their ideal of God, they will be reincarnated. Heaven, in this context, is temporary. (Generally speaking, Hinduism's pretty vast.)

 

[Vinayaka]

Is this eternal view the majority of Hindus?

then what the point of a creator and destroyer if things are eternal?

or is like Christianity that has a beginning and an ending, but also has the concept of eternal life in heaven?

Well, it's not at all like Christianity, and that can never be stated enough. The terms 'creator', and 'destroyer' are both very poor English translations for the concepts. Better words for conveying these concepts are emanation and dissolution, (I wish I knew the correct Sanskrit words) just a constant ongoing process. Saivites like me refer to it as Siva's dance.

 

[Vinayaka]

I wasn’t asking about the name. I’m asking about if the eternal concept was the view of the majority.

Yes, it is. But at the same time, most Hindus aren't particularly concerned with philosophy, so they might be unsure. Anyone with any inkling of the philosophy would see it as eternal for sure, as there is no other teaching.

 

[Jimmy]

Yes. Its in the name, as has been explained.

To take away 'eternal' would be the same as to take 'Christ' out of Christianity. It would be a different religion.

Think of the cycles of the seasons. Things die in the winter. Return in the spring. Bloom, flourish, and die again. They come back. Eternal.

No. Eternal life in heaven is not a concept in Hinduism. There are heavenly realms that one may go to, but until one obtains 'union' with their ideal of God, they will be reincarnated. Heaven, in this context, is temporary. (Generally speaking, Hinduism's pretty vast.)

Oh earlier @Vinayaka just said yes then went on about the name. I was a bit confused.

Anyway so Hindus believe that the universe has been and will always be here?

 

[JustGeorge]

Oh earlier @Vinayaka just said yes then went on about the name. I was a bit confused.

Anyway so Hindus believe that the universe has been and will always be here?

Yup.

 

[sun rise]

No. Eternal life in heaven is not a concept in Hinduism. There are heavenly realms that one may go to, but until one obtains 'union' with their ideal of God, they will be reincarnated. Heaven, in this context, is temporary. (Generally speaking, Hinduism's pretty vast.)

That is also the belief of some Islamic sufis and Jewish Kabbalahists. For example, the Zohar:

"All souls must undergo transmigration and the souls of men revolve like a stone which is thrown from a sling, so many turns before the final release...Only those who have not completed their perfection must suffer the wheel of rebirth by being reborn into another human body."​

 

[Jimmy]

Well, it's not at all like Christianity, and that can never be stated enough. The terms 'creator', and 'destroyer' are both very poor English translations for the concepts. Better words for conveying these concepts are emanation and dissolution, (I wish I knew the correct Sanskrit words) just a constant ongoing process. Saivites like me refer to it as Siva's dance.

Oh so there’s no concept of creator or destroyer in Hinduism? Interesting

 

[Jimmy]

Yup.

So what are these “seasons” that you speak of? Is this just limited to living things like people, and things like planets etc?

 

[JustGeorge]

One of the things that's most dear to me about Shiva is his association with fearsome spirits. He has love for those who may seem, to some, as being 'difficult'.

It's said he is the easiest God to please.

 

[Vinayaka]

That is also the belief of some Islamic sufis and Jewish Kabbalahists. For example, the Zohar:

"All souls must undergo transmigration and the souls of men revolve like a stone which is thrown from a sling, so many turns before the final release...Only those who have not completed their perfection must suffer the wheel of rebirth by being reborn into another human body."​

Indeed, there are mystic schools in most religions. A key difference between those traditions and Hindus is just the number. I would even venture to say that in Hinduism, the majority is mystically inclined.

 

[Jimmy]

Yup.

So I was told that there’s no creator or destroyer in Hinduism. was I told correct?

 

[JustGeorge]

So what are these “seasons” that you speak of? Is this just limited to living things like people, and things like planets etc?

I would say all living things have their season.

Hindus believe in reincarnation. A human is born, grows, blossoms, declines, dies, is reborn, start all over again.

 

[Jimmy]

Well, it's not at all like Christianity, and that can never be stated enough. The terms 'creator', and 'destroyer' are both very poor English translations for the concepts. Better words for conveying these concepts are emanation and dissolution, (I wish I knew the correct Sanskrit words) just a constant ongoing process. Saivites like me refer to it as Siva's dance.

What’s emanation and dissolution? Emanation and dissolution of what?

 

[Jimmy]

Well, it's not at all like Christianity, and that can never be stated enough. The terms 'creator', and 'destroyer' are both very poor English translations for the concepts. Better words for conveying these concepts are emanation and dissolution, (I wish I knew the correct Sanskrit words) just a constant ongoing process. Saivites like me refer to it as Siva's dance.

I just read a little bit about the disillusion in Hinduism and it said the world dissolves and then is re-created. So it seems it does mean destroyer

 

[Vinayaka]

Oh so there’s no concept of creator or destroyer in Hinduism? Interesting

I wouldn't say no concept at all, but I do remember once reading an intellectual analogy with clay, and a bunch of names of causes like instrumental, and efficient, with the clay, the potter, and the wheel all being various causes. Then they were compared to the various religious views. There was a distinction between various religions. I wasn't all that interested in retaining the information. I do retain the idea than Siva is not different from His emanation, as He is the whole universe, everything.

 

[Jimmy]

I wouldn't say no concept at all, but I do remember once reading an intellectual analogy with clay, and a bunch of names of causes like instrumental, and efficient, with the clay, the potter, and the wheel all being various causes. Then they were compared to the various religious views. There was a distinction between various religions. I wasn't all that interested in retaining the information. I do retain the idea than Siva is not different from His emanation, as He is the whole universe, everything.

Sounds like you don’t know much about Hinduism. Thanks anyway

 

[Vinayaka]

What’s emanation and dissolution? Emanation and dissolution of what?

Emanation is extension, growth ... Dissolution is erosion, erasing. I looked these words up in the Sanskrit/English dictionary, and in Sanskrit there were lots of words.

 

[Vinayaka]

Sounds like you don’t know much about Hinduism. Thanks anyway

That's very true. There is a lot to know, and although I know a little, it isn't much. Thanks for the discussion.

 

[Jimmy]

That's very true. There is a lot to know, and although I know a little, it isn't much. Thanks for the discussion.

Hey it’s ok. We know what we know right? I appreciate your responses