Leviticus

[Benoni]

I was born and raised Catholic but after I decided to read the bible, I lost my faith in the Christian religion, that was some time ago. I recently befriended this guy who is 22, and a true God fearing virgin, he preaches to me ALL the time, so I decided I'd give the bible another chance, and it still ****** me off. So this guy, I'll call him... Eli, was telling me that he had been thinking about getting a tattoo, but then he heard that the bible condemns it, so he couldn't. So I went home, dusted off my bible, and indeed found this condemnation in Leviticus, immediately after the verse: Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard. This is Leviticus 19:27. It makes me SO angry when Christians portray themselves as hardcore followers of God's law and doing what the bible says but they simply ignore some things that don't quite fit into their liking. 'Cause I gotta tell ya, Eli is as clean shaven as they get, this guy is totally anti body hair, but tattoos are bad, premarital sex is bad and also no cussing because that's what the bible says. Comments?

The Ot law was fulfilled in Jesus death; he totally fulfilled it. The law is for spiritual children who need a baby sitter,

Wherefore the law was our school-master to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith." (Galatians 3:21-24).

A schoolmaster, (the Greek text gives, a child conductor), was one who held the child in restraint as they conducted the child from home to the school, making sure that there was no mischief along the way, and that the child arrived at the school. Then the child was given over to the care of the teacher, and the duty of the child conductor was ended. The child conductor did not stand in the back of the class room and continue to exercise control and authority over the child, for now the Teacher was in control, and there was to be no outside interference. So also, once we have been brought to Christ, and His anointing abides within us, we are to be led by the Spirit.

 

[Zardoz]

I find it hilarious that the book Christians use to bash homosexuality is the same book that condemns the consumption of shellfish as a mortal sin.

That's just the thing. It's not at all a 'mortal sin'. Shellfish or anal intercourse (homo or hetrosexual!!!!) can kill you if you're not careful. Which may make it 'mortal', eh? That's the whole point, G-d cares about our safety, it's not a matter of 'sin'.

... The law is for spiritual children who need a baby sitter.

 

[kejos]

I find it hilarious that the book Christians use to bash homosexuality is the same book that condemns the consumption of shellfish as a mortal sin.

A certain proportion of Mosaic Law was probably designed to meet objections from neighbors who held taboos against certain practices. It would have been important for Israelites, whose existence was to show the superiority of their morality, to give no unnecessary offense.

There may have been more than a grain of sense in this prohibition, anyway, as crustaceans and molluscs stored for very long in a hot climate were very liable to cause sickness.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Where in the Bible does it say "no cussing"? I'm not familiar with that passage.
.

Please notice: Leviticus 5 v1.

Now in case a soul sins in that he has heard public cursing and his is a witness or he has seen it or has come to know of it, if he does not report it, then he must answer for his error.

Also, if one's speech is to be 'always' with graciousness, seasoned with salt, so to speak, as Colossians 4v6 says, then wouldn't that also exclude "cussing"?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Why would you think intelligent Jews were illiterate?___________________

The volume 'The Jewish Bible and the Christian Bible' mentions:
The Bible has no fewer than 429 references to writing and to written documents.

The 'Oxford Encyclopedia of Archaeology in the Near East' mentions:
that in ancient Israel that writing was in integral part of the religious experience.

According to a senior lecturer, Alan Millard, at the University of Liverpool mentions:
Evidently, reading and writing were assumed to affect lift at most levels.
Deut 31vs9-13; Joshua 1v8; Nehemiah 8vs 13-18; Psalm 1v2.
Paul wrote how we should view such holy writings [Rom 15v4] that all the things [Scriptures] written aforetime are for our instruction.....
Alan Millard is also a professor of Hebrew and ancient Semitic languages and also mentions: Writing in Greek, Aramaic and Hebrew was widespread and could be found at all levels of society....that was the environment in which Jesus worked.

Apparently waxed writing tablets were readily available.
A waxed tablet with its writing instrument of the 1st century is found at the British Museum.
The British Library has a schoolboy's wax tablet from the 2nd century.
Didn't Jewish Zechariah [Luke 1v63] ask for a writing tablet?
It would have been a small tablet made of wood with a prepared wax surface where hinged panels could be overlaid with smoothed-out bees wax with using a stylus as a writer. The surface could be erased and the newly smoother surface be re-used.

The 'New International Dictionary of the New Testament Theology' says of Acts [3vs11,19] that the image expressed there by the verb used is most probably smoothing the surface of a wax writing-tablet for re-use.

Wouldn't Jewish Matthew being a tax collector, as well as the Jewish scribes, Pharisees, Sadducees, and all the members of the Jewish high court, the Sanhedrin, be educated?

Professor Harry Y. Gamble, professor at University of Virginia, mentions:
It can hardly be doubted that from the beginning there were [Jewish] Christians.... who devoted themselves to the close study.....of Jewish Scripture, constructing from it the textual warrants [proofs] of Christian convictions and making those texts serviceable for Christian preaching.

The book 'Reading and Writing in the Time of Jesus' mentions:
Scriptures found from various parts of the Roman empire.....display the widespread use of the tablets.

Syrian writer Tatian completed his work in 170 CE?AD known as the 'Diatessaron' . That provides evidence that the four gospels were known and accepted by the 2nd century.

Autodidact-

Please notice ^above^ about the idea of what kind of education Jesus could have had.

 

[Autodidact]

That's just the thing. It's not at all a 'mortal sin'. Shellfish or anal intercourse (homo or hetrosexual!!!!) can kill you if you're not careful. Which may make it 'mortal', eh? That's the whole point, G-d cares about our safety, it's not a matter of 'sin'.

Eating a shrimp po'boy is potentially fatal? What do you think the shrimp fatality rate is?

 

[Autodidact]

Autodidact-

Please notice ^above^ about the idea of what kind of education Jesus could have had.

Didn't see anything about Jesus in there. Have any of Jesus' writings survived?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

That's just the thing. It's not at all a 'mortal sin'. Shellfish or anal intercourse (homo or hetrosexual!!!!) can kill you if you're not careful. Which may make it 'mortal', eh? That's the whole point, G-d cares about our safety, it's not a matter of 'sin'.

Right! For instance, if you don't redeem the firstborn of your livestock to God, or if you cut your forelocks, God will smite you. It's entirely about safety; nobody wants to be smited, right?

Please notice: Leviticus 5 v1.

Now in case a soul sins in that he has heard public cursing and his is a witness or he has seen it or has come to know of it, if he does not report it, then he must answer for his error.

It might help you to read a few other translations... then you'd realise that "public cursing" refers to an accusation directed at someone.

For instance, the CEV version:

1If you refuse to testify in court about something you saw or know has happened, you have sinned and can be punished.

NASB:

1'Now if a person sins after he hears a public (A)adjuration to testify when he is a witness, whether he has seen or otherwise known, if he does not tell it, then he will bear his guilt.

NIV:

1 " 'If a person sins because he does not speak up when he hears a public charge to testify regarding something he has seen or learned about, he will be held responsible.

Also, if one's speech is to be 'always' with graciousness, seasoned with salt, so to speak, as Colossians 4v6 says, then wouldn't that also exclude "cussing"?

That verse is specifically directed to slaveowners and is specifically concerned with their conduct toward strangers:

1Masters, grant to your slaves justice and fairness, (A)knowing that you too have a Master in heaven. 2(B)Devote yourselves to prayer, keeping alert in it with an attitude of thanksgiving;
3praying at the same time (C)for us as well, that God will open up to us a (D)door for (E)the word, so that we may speak forth (F)the mystery of Christ, for which I have also (G)been imprisoned;
4that I may make it clear (H)in the way I ought to speak.
5(I)Conduct yourselves with wisdom toward (J)outsiders, (K)making the most of the opportunity.
6(L)Let your speech always be with grace, as though seasoned with (M)salt, so that you will know how you should (N)respond to each person.

Hardly a blanket prohibition on cussing.

Anyhow, who says that profanity can't be gracious?

 

[kejos]

That verse is specifically directed to slaveowners and is specifically concerned with their conduct toward strangers

Col. 4:1 should be part of Col 3, complementing and balancing what Paul had to say to slaves. After that, there is a new paragraph, if not a new chapter, dealing with general matters, returning to the general address as before Paul had addressed different categories. Paul did not ask, 'Pray for us, too,' just of slave owners, or of slaves, but of all the Colossians- husbands, wives, children, slaves, masters, and everyone else in earshot.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Didn't see anything about Jesus in there. Have any of Jesus' writings survived?

The Bible is called the Word of God, or in other words God's Word inspired by God. God, not Jesus, is the Author of Scripture according to 2nd Tim 3vs16,17.
Just for being the Author of a book would you have to produce other writings?

If you re-read the above, doesn't Prof Millard mention the literate environment that Jesus would have worked in?

Doesn't the British Museum have a waxed writing table from around the first or second century that was used for education?

Jesus associated with Matthew. Matthew as a tax collector could read and write.

Physician Luke from the first century was the author of Luke and Acts.
Is there anything in Luke's writings showing Luke to be ill educated?

Mental retardation can be heredity. Would the intelligent Jews having the Mosaic law as their successful Constitution for over 1000 years become unintelligent in the first century and return to intelligence in our present day? What would have happened to their IQ in the first century that would have caused them to be illiterate back then and regain smarts since then?
Rather, as a whole doesn't the Jewish population show they have always had the intelligence to be educated and literate?

 

[Autodidact]

The Bible is called the Word of God, or in other words God's Word inspired by God. God, not Jesus, is the Author of Scripture according to 2nd Tim 3vs16,17.
Just for being the Author of a book would you have to produce other writings?

If you re-read the above, doesn't Prof Millard mention the literate environment that Jesus would have worked in?

Doesn't the British Museum have a waxed writing table from around the first or second century that was used for education?

Jesus associated with Matthew. Matthew as a tax collector could read and write.

Physician Luke from the first century was the author of Luke and Acts.
Is there anything in Luke's writings showing Luke to be ill educated?

Mental retardation can be heredity. Would the intelligent Jews having the Mosaic law as their successful Constitution for over 1000 years become unintelligent in the first century and return to intelligence in our present day? What would have happened to their IQ in the first century that would have caused them to be illiterate back then and regain smarts since then?
Rather, as a whole doesn't the Jewish population show they have always had the intelligence to be educated and literate?

There is almost no connection between intelligence and literacy. At a time in history when many or most people were not taught how to read and write, most peope were illiterate, no matter how intelligent.

Anyway, your position is that Jesus could write, but just did not bother? That God sent Himself here to save us, and thought the best way to do that was to tell a few dozen people, rather than write it down to avoid misinterpretation?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Anyway, your position is that Jesus could write, but just did not bother? That God sent Himself here to save us, and thought the best way to do that was to tell a few dozen people, rather than write it down to avoid misinterpretation?

How do you know Jesus did now write anything down?_______
Jesus also read aloud in the synagogue.- Luke 4v16 b.

There is No Scripture that says God sent himself here.

How do you know Jesus only told a few dozen people when on just one occasion of many he preached to over 5,000 as Matthew 14vs 14-21 says.

Jesus' Father is the Author of the Bible not Jesus. -2nd Tim 3vs16,17.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

There is almost no connection between intelligence and literacy. At a time in history when many or most people were not taught how to read and write, most peope were illiterate, no matter how intelligent.

How can you say where Jesus was living most were not taught how to read and write? Didn't you read my precious post regarding education at that time?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

The volume 'The Jewish Bible and the Christian Bible' mentions:
The Bible has no fewer than 429 references to writing and to written documents.

The 'Oxford Encyclopedia of Archaeology in the Near East' mentions:
that in ancient Israel that writing was in integral part of the religious experience.

According to a senior lecturer, Alan Millard, at the University of Liverpool mentions:
Evidently, reading and writing were assumed to affect lift at most levels.
Deut 31vs9-13; Joshua 1v8; Nehemiah 8vs 13-18; Psalm 1v2.
Paul wrote how we should view such holy writings [Rom 15v4] that all the things [Scriptures] written aforetime are for our instruction.....
Alan Millard is also a professor of Hebrew and ancient Semitic languages and also mentions: Writing in Greek, Aramaic and Hebrew was widespread and could be found at all levels of society....that was the environment in which Jesus worked.

Apparently waxed writing tablets were readily available.
A waxed tablet with its writing instrument of the 1st century is found at the British Museum.
The British Library has a schoolboy's wax tablet from the 2nd century.
Didn't Jewish Zechariah [Luke 1v63] ask for a writing tablet?
It would have been a small tablet made of wood with a prepared wax surface where hinged panels could be overlaid with smoothed-out bees wax with using a stylus as a writer. The surface could be erased and the newly smoother surface be re-used.

The 'New International Dictionary of the New Testament Theology' says of Acts [3vs11,19] that the image expressed there by the verb used is most probably smoothing the surface of a wax writing-tablet for re-use.

Wouldn't Jewish Matthew being a tax collector, as well as the Jewish scribes, Pharisees, Sadducees, and all the members of the Jewish high court, the Sanhedrin, be educated?

Professor Harry Y. Gamble, professor at University of Virginia, mentions:
It can hardly be doubted that from the beginning there were [Jewish] Christians.... who devoted themselves to the close study.....of Jewish Scripture, constructing from it the textual warrants [proofs] of Christian convictions and making those texts serviceable for Christian preaching.

The book 'Reading and Writing in the Time of Jesus' mentions:
Scriptures found from various parts of the Roman empire.....display the widespread use of the tablets.

Syrian writer Tatian completed his work in 170 CE?AD known as the 'Diatessaron' . That provides evidence that the four gospels were known and accepted by the 2nd century.

Please notice ^above^ the references to the literacy around the time of Christ in his area.

 

[Autodidact]

How do you know Jesus did now write anything down?_______
Jesus also read aloud in the synagogue.- Luke 4v16 b.

There is No Scripture that says God sent himself here.

How do you know Jesus only told a few dozen people when on just one occasion of many he preached to over 5,000 as Matthew 14vs 14-21 says.

Jesus' Father is the Author of the Bible not Jesus. -2nd Tim 3vs16,17.

Jesus wrote a book but what, it got lost? Careless.

 

[Autodidact]

Please notice ^above^ the references to the literacy around the time of Christ in his area.

None of that says anything about the general populace.
it has been estimated that at least 90 percent of the Jewish population of Roman Palestine in the first centuries CE could merely write their own name or not write and read at all[2], or that the literacy rate was about 3 percent[3].

1. ^ Hezser, Catherine "Jewish Literacy in Roman Palestine", 2001, Texts and Studies in Ancient Judaism; 81. Tuebingen: Mohr-Siebeck, at page 503.
2. ^ Bar-Ilan, M. "Illiteracy in the Land of Israel in the First Centuries C.E." in S. Fishbane, S. Schoenfeld and A. Goldschlaeger (eds.), "Essays in the Social Scientific Study of Judaism and Jewish Society", II, New York: Ktav, 1992, pp. 46-61.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Jesus wrote a book but what, it got lost? Careless.

Not all people that write do write a book, do they?

Reading and writing does not necessarily mean being the author of a book.

Jesus said he came to do the will of his Father, Not his own will.
[ Mt26v39;Lk22v42;Jn5v30;6v38]
It was Not God's will that Jesus be the Author of God's book the Bible.
All Scripture comes from the Author of the Bible or God, not Christ.
-2nd Tim 3vs16,17.

The Bible writers could read and write and they lived in the first century.
They were literate enough to write the gospels and letters.
Weren't the real people of Luke [3v1,2] literate?______
Jesus at age 12 [Luke 2vs42-47] was found in the temple sitting in the midst of the teachers hearing them and questioning them and they were astonished at Jesus understanding and answers. Thus showing already at age 12 Jesus had a well-rounded religious education in Scripture.

If Jesus was illiterate then how could he often preface his statements and support his teachings with a reference Scriptures by first saying, "It is written"?
Where was it 'written' but in the Hebrew Scriptures. -Luke 4vs4,8,10.
So Jesus could not only read [Luke 4v16b} but Jesus could locate Scriptures in the scrolls.

At Luke [24v27] Jesus 'expounded' to his disciples the Scriptures concerning himself. Jesus would have had to know them in order to 'expound' them wouldn't he?

Luke [24vs44,45] Jesus opened up their understanding of Scripture and said all things written about him must be fulfilled. Of those things, which did Jesus Not fulfill?______

Please also notice what the people of Acts [17v11] did.
Daily they examined the Scriptures to see if things were actually so.
In order to search or research Scripture they would have to be able to read.

The Samaritan woman at the well [John 4v25,29,30] had knowledge about the Messiah coming that he [Messiah] would tell them all things.
She believed Jesus to be God's Anointed One or Messiah.
She would not have believed that if Jesus could not answer her questions.

If the writings of the Bible writers were not so, there would have been plenty of contemporaries at that time writing that what the writers were writing was not so, or did the contemporaries not write at that time? Hardly.
Doesn't Cornelius Tacitus mention Pontius Pilate [annals, XV,44] and Flavius Josephus mention High Priest Ananus [Annas] in Jewish Antiquities, XX,200 (ix,1) besides them mentioning Christians and James the brother of Jesus Christ? Surely they would have had to been literate in order to write what they did.

 

[Autodidact]

Not all people that write do write a book, do they?

Reading and writing does not necessarily mean being the author of a book.

Jesus said he came to do the will of his Father, Not his own will.
[ Mt26v39;Lk22v42;Jn5v30;6v38]
It was Not God's will that Jesus be the Author of God's book the Bible.
All Scripture comes from the Author of the Bible or God, not Christ.
-2nd Tim 3vs16,17.

The Bible writers could read and write and they lived in the first century.
They were literate enough to write the gospels and letters.
Weren't the real people of Luke [3v1,2] literate?______
Jesus at age 12 [Luke 2vs42-47] was found in the temple sitting in the midst of the teachers hearing them and questioning them and they were astonished at Jesus understanding and answers. Thus showing already at age 12 Jesus had a well-rounded religious education in Scripture.

If Jesus was illiterate then how could he often preface his statements and support his teachings with a reference Scriptures by first saying, "It is written"?
Where was it 'written' but in the Hebrew Scriptures. -Luke 4vs4,8,10.
So Jesus could not only read [Luke 4v16b} but Jesus could locate Scriptures in the scrolls.

At Luke [24v27] Jesus 'expounded' to his disciples the Scriptures concerning himself. Jesus would have had to know them in order to 'expound' them wouldn't he?

Luke [24vs44,45] Jesus opened up their understanding of Scripture and said all things written about him must be fulfilled. Of those things, which did Jesus Not fulfill?______

Please also notice what the people of Acts [17v11] did.
Daily they examined the Scriptures to see if things were actually so.
In order to search or research Scripture they would have to be able to read.

The Samaritan woman at the well [John 4v25,29,30] had knowledge about the Messiah coming that he [Messiah] would tell them all things.
She believed Jesus to be God's Anointed One or Messiah.
She would not have believed that if Jesus could not answer her questions.

If the writings of the Bible writers were not so, there would have been plenty of contemporaries at that time writing that what the writers were writing was not so, or did the contemporaries not write at that time? Hardly.
Doesn't Cornelius Tacitus mention Pontius Pilate [annals, XV,44] and Flavius Josephus mention High Priest Ananus [Annas] in Jewish Antiquities, XX,200 (ix,1) besides them mentioning Christians and James the brother of Jesus Christ? Surely they would have had to been literate in order to write what they did.

re: "It is written..." because the rabbis, who could read, told them so. The Torah is read aloud in service.

So your story is that Jesus could write, but chose not to? So we're back to God deciding to have Jesus just mention stuff to a few people, rather than do the helpful thing and write it down?

 

[Autodidact]

If the writings of the Bible writers were not so, there would have been plenty of contemporaries at that time writing that what the writers were writing was not so, or did the contemporaries not write at that time? Hardly.
Doesn't Cornelius Tacitus mention Pontius Pilate [annals, XV,44] and Flavius Josephus mention High Priest Ananus [Annas] in Jewish Antiquities, XX,200 (ix,1) besides them mentioning Christians and James the brother of Jesus Christ? Surely they would have had to been literate in order to write what they did.

Yes, Flavius and Tacitus were literate, but most of the people around them were not.

The Bible was not written contemporary to the events described in it, so no, writers could not predict into the future what the Bible authors would say happened, in order to correct them in advance, if you see what I mean.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Yes, Flavius and Tacitus were literate, but most of the people around them were not.
The Bible was not written contemporary to the events described in it, so no, writers could not predict into the future what the Bible authors would say happened, in order to correct them in advance, if you see what I mean.

Weren't the people of Luke 3 vs1,2,4 literate? _______
They were around at the time of Christ.