[LHP only] What is left hand path?

[ThirtyThree]

I disagree. Most people do not seem to have it within them to step outside themselves. Catholics may not be slaves to a god, but they are to the institution founded around that god.

Most Catholics I have conversed with enjoy being Catholic and all it requires.

However, to be fair, most are slaves to something. Fast food, money, a relationship with another person, love, hate, depression, grief, drugs, smoking, work, buying brand names, technology, dieting and so on.

All I suggest is for a person to be certain that what they are slaves to does not hinder them in achieving their life aspirations.

If you experience fulfillment going to a church, just ask yourself why it brings you fulfillment, find out and then keep going if you desire to. Likewise with anything else. There is nothing wrong with boxes or herds, if one benefits while being in one.

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

Fear couched in self interest? Losing my money to a parking ticket isn't worth the speeding, just like killing someone wouldn't be worth the life sentence. Self preservation is not equivalent to fear, I have nothing to prove to myself or to our society.

In both cases, you allow a fear of the whip define your actions. Fine for you I guess, but trying to couch that sort of reasoning within the context of LHP is a weird sort of eisegesis to be sure.

 

[1137]

In both cases, you allow a fear of the whip define your actions. Fine for you I guess, but trying to couch that sort of reasoning within the context of LHP is a weird sort of eisegesis to be sure.

Self preservation is not synonymous with fear, and pretending it is doesn't make you seem edgy.

 

[crossfire]

Eh, not really the same thing... They're doing the whole "my thoughts suck" zen thing... Magical trance has thoughts... Well, mine does... Anyway, they aren't the same thing. Not from a practical point of view... Throwing oneself directly into spiritual ecstasy through chanting an invocation would be exactly the type of experience our poor monk would fear. Usually, they want to get there by accident...

That is what koans are for.

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

Self preservation is not synonymous with fear, and pretending it is doesn't make you seem edgy.

Of course it is. Who said anything about seeming edgy?

If 'legitimised authority 1' says, don't do X or I will do Y to you, and you proceed to abstain from X simply because you dont want Y to happen to you, that's fear. That's the stick, working, on you.

If you had said, say, 'I choose not to speed, or to kill, because I prefer not to, I don't like speed, or blood, that would be a matter of self determination... Which would jibe with the general LHP school of thought.

But you didn't. In your examples you are allowing someone else to determine your actions, for their reasons, under threat of punishment.

If the biblical/mythological Satan/Lucifer had held a similar outlook, he would still be cowering behind Jehovah's mystical robe for fear of some repercussions.

 

[1137]

Of course it is. Who said anything about seeming edgy?

If 'legitimised authority 1' says, don't do X or I will do Y to you, and you proceed to abstain from X simply because you dont want Y to happen to you, that's fear. That's the stick, working, on you.

If you had said, say, 'I choose not to speed, or to kill, because I prefer not to, I don't like speed, or blood, that would be a matter of self determination... Which would jibe with the general LHP school of thought.

But you didn't. In your examples you are allowing someone else to determine your actions, for their reasons, under threat of punishment.

If the biblical/mythological Satan/Lucifer had held a similar outlook, he would still be cowering behind Jehovah's mystical robe for fear of some repercussions.

So if I don't fist fight a tiger because of my advanced intelligence, I must be a RHP slave to the natural order? No, I'm using the very gift that births the LHP to avoid a stupid and pointless situation.

 

[Adramelek]

To all here, how many of you look with a bit of disfavor on structuring when it comes to the LHP? Certain structuring, I think, is necessary such as frames of reference through which certain words have certain meanings and thereby allow us to comprehend magickal and philosophical concepts. So long as it doesn't lead to dogma or an unwillingness to be open minded and to be able to change ones own mind.

 

[1137]

To all here, how many of you look with a bit of disfavor on structuring when it comes to the LHP? Certain structuring, I think, is necessary such as frames of reference through which certain words have certain meanings and thereby allow us to comprehend magickal and philosophical concepts. So long as it doesn't lead to dogma or an unwillingness to be open minded and to be able to change ones own mind.

I agree with this.

 

[Adramelek]

Sections 14 - 17 of "The Statement of Satan Archdaimon" from "The Diabolicon" by Michael Aquino:

"Then Michael turned to me and said, Lucifer, thou hast
elected a direction whose end none can foresee, for it is
estranged from the design of God. Those who confirm thee
do so as much for faith in thy person as for sanction of thy ideal.
And I perceive that, should thou fail in thy ambition,
apocalyptic madness shall be thy ruin and damnation.
Then shall thy light perish, and all that thou hast achieved
become as naught, for all will be conformed to the divine law.
But if thou should succeed, then God would be cast down,
vesting in ourselves alone the control of the Universe -
Would we dare to presume to this? Such a future
might well be glorious beyond measure, but, should we
prove unequal to the task, chaos would again consume all,
and existence itself would vanish. Such would be supreme
and irrevocable disaster, and I marvel, Archangel, that thy
very arrogance in this matter does not confound thee, for
it is no mean proposition that thou would realize."

"And so I know thee as Diabolus, for thy promise is
twofold - to infinite conquest or to eternal ruin. Thou art a
being beyond God, Lucifer, and in Heaven thou may not remain,
for thou art the only mortal danger to our Immortal God."

"In Michael was a deep agony of spirit, for he loved not the
choice before him. Yet he bowed to the command of Masleh
and sent his forces against me, and so was called the Great
Seraphic War, which was to threaten the very foundation
of the Universe."

"But those who were of the new mind now followed me,
and I turned to outermost chaos, which none of us had before
presumed to dare. We were beset with doubt, for we
feared that apart from God we would all perish in chaotic oblivion.
But as we were, we remained, and I called to my fellowship,
See! We exist and are essence in our own right.
In truth we are beings independent of God, empowered to
shape our own destinies as we may elect. Between the two
great poles of the Universe, order and chaos, we shall
stand to effect our desires."

 

[VioletVortex]

Left Hand Path includes Satanism (in all forms), Wicca, a few other forms of Paganism, and more smaller "religions". The reason I put it in quotation marks is because the Left Hand Path is more of an anti-religious thing than a religious thing. Actually, I correct that it involves "all forms" of Satanism. Some forms of Satanism that involve a true worship of Satan are not always Left Hand Path. In reality, it is just a label. I much prefer the term Occult. It has come to mean the same thing, anyway.

 

[ThirtyThree]

Left Hand Path includes Satanism (in all forms), Wicca, a few other forms of Paganism, and more smaller "religions". The reason I put it in quotation marks is because the Left Hand Path is more of an anti-religious thing than a religious thing. Actually, I correct that it involves "all forms" of Satanism. Some forms of Satanism that involve a true worship of Satan are not always Left Hand Path. In reality, it is just a label. I much prefer the term Occult. It has come to mean the same thing, anyway.

Wicca?! Left Hand Path?! Since when?!

 

[crossfire]

Wicca?! Left Hand Path?! Since when?!

I'll have to agree with you there.

 

[ThirtyThree]

Sections 14 - 17 of "The Statement of Satan Archdaimon" from "The Diabolicon" by Michael Aquino:

"Then Michael turned to me and said, Lucifer, thou hast
elected a direction whose end none can foresee, for it is
estranged from the design of God. Those who confirm thee
do so as much for faith in thy person as for sanction of thy ideal.
And I perceive that, should thou fail in thy ambition,
apocalyptic madness shall be thy ruin and damnation.
Then shall thy light perish, and all that thou hast achieved
become as naught, for all will be conformed to the divine law.
But if thou should succeed, then God would be cast down,
vesting in ourselves alone the control of the Universe -
Would we dare to presume to this? Such a future
might well be glorious beyond measure, but, should we
prove unequal to the task, chaos would again consume all,
and existence itself would vanish. Such would be supreme
and irrevocable disaster, and I marvel, Archangel, that thy
very arrogance in this matter does not confound thee, for
it is no mean proposition that thou would realize."

"And so I know thee as Diabolus, for thy promise is
twofold - to infinite conquest or to eternal ruin. Thou art a
being beyond God, Lucifer, and in Heaven thou may not remain,
for thou art the only mortal danger to our Immortal God."

"In Michael was a deep agony of spirit, for he loved not the
choice before him. Yet he bowed to the command of Masleh
and sent his forces against me, and so was called the Great
Seraphic War, which was to threaten the very foundation
of the Universe."

"But those who were of the new mind now followed me,
and I turned to outermost chaos, which none of us had before
presumed to dare. We were beset with doubt, for we
feared that apart from God we would all perish in chaotic oblivion.
But as we were, we remained, and I called to my fellowship,
See! We exist and are essence in our own right.
In truth we are beings independent of God, empowered to
shape our own destinies as we may elect. Between the two
great poles of the Universe, order and chaos, we shall
stand to effect our desires."

I adore this.

 

[Adramelek]

I adore this.

I love the document too, "The Diabolicon". The Statement I quoted is a good illustration of the cosmic birth of the LHP, though in the myths of the Hebrews.

 

[ThirtyThree]

I love the document too, "The Diabolicon". The Statement I quoted is a good illustration of the cosmic birth of the LHP, though in the myths of the Hebrews.

I enjoy good writing that inspires me.

 

[Desert Snake]

Is that more Occult? Is it part of Witchcraft? Whats behind the name? (Why Left and not Right?) Thinking of political differences. Not-Not to compare LHP with Left/right politics.

I don't like the terms. They seem arbitrary, and not well defined. Not to mention, ''satanists'' etc, use different definitions.

 

[ThirtyThree]

I don't like the terms. They seem arbitrary, and not well defined. Not to mention, ''satanists'' etc, use different definitions.

When did you convert to the LHP?

 

[VioletVortex]

Wicca?! Left Hand Path?! Since when?!

Wicca is left hand path... sorry, but it is.

 

[Mindmaster]

Wicca is left hand path... sorry, but it is.

Nah, Traditional Witchcraft can be though... (not that Gerald Gardner stuff, aka Wicca)

People always mix up Witchcraft and Wicca... You can be a Wiccan without doing Witchcraft, and you can do Witchcraft without a religious belief. Generally, Wicca really only implies a spiritual belief -- it doesn't necessarily imply any Witchcraft is going on. (Often, Wiccans do not even do magic beyond some candle magic. Many Wiccans do both, but in this context they are still basically RHP due to their ways/dogma.)

Witchcraft is a tool set, and can be used without a religion or grafted over whatever belief system a person prefers: (some examples) Voodoo, Santeria, Palo, and whatnot are actually folk "witchcraft" traditions. it can be very LHP especially if used without before-mentioned dogma -- especially if you are involved in some of the crazier practices, like hedge-riding, which are really against the grain. There are certainly many many non-religious witches of this sort, and many are generational -- that's to say they learned from family, not the books on Amazon. It's also common for theistic Satanists to combine Witchcraft with their religious practice. (Hello, me.. )

The confusing thing is they both like the word witch so they both will call themselves that, but beyond that... No similarity really...

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

So if I don't fist fight a tiger because of my advanced intelligence, I must be a RHP slave to the natural order? No, I'm using the very gift that births the LHP to avoid a stupid and pointless situation.

We are all slaves to the natural order, I'm afraid there is no escaping that. This is a fact anyone DOING the LHP.(rather than talking around it) must grapple with at some point. This is of course here nor there with regards to the sort of voluntary slavery you seem to be advocating for.

Do you know how they restrain circus elephants? When they are young, their ankle is bound, chain and manacle, to a post. They will struggle and tug at it for a while, eventually giving up. As adults you can bind them with twine.