Life after death is a scientific FACT.

[tumbleweed41]

If something that requires energy, but is not itself a form of energy, then what it?

A light bulb?

 

[Twilight Hue]

To say that the processes stop is to say that energy stops being energy. I don't think that is scientifically possible. Energy can only change form, not cease to be energy.

Processes stop....Isn't that akin to shutting off a switch? Energy is not destroyed, but will go another route entirely when conditions are optimal for it. The previous conditions are completely gone and in so there is nothing "transferred". I think thats what Carlin is trying to say.

 

[tumbleweed41]

To say that the processes stop is to say that energy stops being energy. I don't think that is scientifically possible. Energy can only change form, not cease to be energy.

What happens when you turn off an appliance? Energy is no longer supplied to the appliance.
When a generator stops turning, the energy stops flowing. The remaining energy is used, then that which is fed the energy "dies".
The conscience, the neural pathways in your brain need energy, when the energy stops flowing, the remainder is used, then ...death.
Energy is not "everlasting", it is either used, or stored (as in a spring), for the spirit to be energy, as you claim, it would need a constant source of replenishment, or be stored, never used, a useless spirit.

 

[Phasmid]

When I die, my body will be consumed by bacteria and various creatures. However, "I" will not carry on. I'll have snuffed it. I exist as a pattern of interconected brain cells built largely on my experience in life. When I die, my brain will shut down and I will no longer exist. In time, my brain will be completely consumed in death... my molecules carry on but, "I" do not.

 

[Beaudreaux]

For me it is not a matter of "is there life after death" or not. There is always life after death, it is even scientifically proven. It is a fact. Everything that exists, even our very own life-force is a form of energy which can neither be created nor destroyed, only change form. Therefore it is merely a question of what will we change into when we die. Personally I tend to agree with the quantum physicists...everything has potential. The universe is full of infinite possibilities. If a simple electron can have the "awareness" to realize there is an observer and be able to change its response, then I am certain that after "death" (changing form) I would most surely be able to retain at least some of my own "awareness". Perhaps not enough awareness to retain previous life memories though, which would make sense anyways as to why people don't generally "remember" their past lives. Even if all the life in the entire Universe was extinguished (died), life would still reappear given enough time and the right conditions. That in itself would be another form of "life after death". But that's my opinion. I don't believe that life after death has to necessarily be equated with the "supernatural". As they say, life goes on... So does that make any logical sense to you? Opinions?

I would agree with you if everything that exists were alive. There are living things and non-living things. The energy I use to make my coffee in the morning does not qualify as life. Just because energy continues does not mean that life continues.

 

[Tristesse]

That is exactly what a lot of science is...theories. This is mine.

No, actually yours is a hypothesis, not a scientific theory.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

For me it is not a matter of "is there life after death" or not. There is always life after death, it is even scientifically proven. It is a fact. Everything that exists, even our very own life-force is a form of energy which can neither be created nor destroyed, only change form. Therefore it is merely a question of what will we change into when we die.

Your idea very much reminds me of an idea that I had when I was 12 or 13 that I might be able to teleport a frog by whacking it against the mouthpiece of a phone (thereby converting its matter into energy, which would whizz along the line to another phone, where the process would be reversed in the earpiece of the receiving phone and matter would pop out).

I have a feeling that your idea stands on just as firm a scientific basis as mine did.

Personally I tend to agree with the quantum physicists...everything has potential. The universe is full of infinite possibilities. If a simple electron can have the "awareness" to realize there is an observer and be able to change its response, then I am certain that after "death" (changing form) I would most surely be able to retain at least some of my own "awareness".

An electron doesn't have awareness. Physicists just use that sort of language when talking to non-technical audiences in order to communicate general concepts in a relatively easily understood way.

 

[tumbleweed41]

Your idea very much reminds me of an idea that I had when I was 12 or 13 that I might be able to teleport a frog by whacking it against the mouthpiece of a phone (thereby converting its matter into energy, which would whizz along the line to another phone, where the process would be reversed in the earpiece of the receiving phone and matter would pop out).

So, whatever happened to that poor frog?

 

[LuisDantas]

For me it is not a matter of "is there life after death" or not. There is always life after death, it is even scientifically proven. It is a fact.

It is a fact that individuals die but life goes on. It is a fact that death is not the end of existence.

It is not a fact that people somehow come back after dying. Far from it.

I would even say that it is inherently absurd to believe they do.

Everything that exists, even our very own life-force is a form of energy which can neither be created nor destroyed, only change form. Therefore it is merely a question of what will we change into when we die.

Something that is not alive, from all appearances. Come to think of it, that is not right; dead bodies are usually very much alive with bacteria. But I doubt that is what you had in mind.

Personally I tend to agree with the quantum physicists...everything has potential. The universe is full of infinite possibilities. If a simple electron can have the "awareness" to realize there is an observer and be able to change its response, then I am certain that after "death" (changing form) I would most surely be able to retain at least some of my own "awareness".

Hmm, no. Human awareness is VERY different from electron awareness. For one thing, electrons are not alive.

Perhaps not enough awareness to retain previous life memories though, which would make sense anyways as to why people don't generally "remember" their past lives.

It is not a matter of having "enough" awareness, however.

Even if all the life in the entire Universe was extinguished (died), life would still reappear given enough time and the right conditions. That in itself would be another form of "life after death".

So you agree with me that there is life after death, but not for the beings that died?

In that sense, and that sense alone, I certainly agree that there is life after death. Of course, that is obvious to the point of being meaningless, so...

But that's my opinion. I don't believe that life after death has to necessarily be equated with the "supernatural". As they say, life goes on... So does that make any logical sense to you? Opinions?

Myself, I think the usual meanings of "life after death" are so self-contradictory that I wonder how come there are people who even attempt to believe in them.

 

[Runewolf1973]

If energy cannot be "created" then how is it then that when a male and a female come together to bring new life into the world, a new living conscious being is born? Was that being "created"? Was "awareness" created? Is awareness "created" in the human mind? The creation of new energy that was never energy to begin with? I don't think so. Energy as far as I understand it cannot be created, it can only change form. Energy or awareness that was already present just changed form into new energy and new awareness.

Possibly one of the reasons why I come to these "fantastical" conclusions may be that I am in fact an Animist. I believe that in order for energy to react with energy, for anything to have an action or a reaction, for anything to even have the need to change form, there must be something behind it which drives it to do so. It is my standpoint that "awareness" is what makes energy itself move and change form. Why would particles of supposedly "dead" energy or dead atoms, still move and vibrate? If something is truly "dead", it should not have need to move or do anything, including change form.

 

[Runewolf1973]

Perhaps I just got everything wrong. I can accept that as another possibility.

 

[Runewolf1973]

A light bulb?

You're saying a light bulb, it's structure is not composed of atoms, electron, protons and such? That does not make sense.

 

[gnomon]

For me it is not a matter of "is there life after death" or not. There is always life after death, it is even scientifically proven. It is a fact. Everything that exists, even our very own life-force is a form of energy which can neither be created nor destroyed, only change form. Therefore it is merely a question of what will we change into when we die. Personally I tend to agree with the quantum physicists...everything has potential. The universe is full of infinite possibilities. If a simple electron can have the "awareness" to realize there is an observer and be able to change its response, then I am certain that after "death" (changing form) I would most surely be able to retain at least some of my own "awareness". Perhaps not enough awareness to retain previous life memories though, which would make sense anyways as to why people don't generally "remember" their past lives. Even if all the life in the entire Universe was extinguished (died), life would still reappear given enough time and the right conditions. That in itself would be another form of "life after death". But that's my opinion. I don't believe that life after death has to necessarily be equated with the "supernatural". As they say, life goes on... So does that make any logical sense to you? Opinions?

I would say you make too many assumptions regarding terminology with life, awareness and infinite. It seems you merely equated life with energy. There are scientific theories which state the concept of a cold universe. Expansion until all energy is dissipated.

Also, the whole concept of life after death has never referred to the notion that energy in the body will be transferred to another form of matter. It is experience after death that matters in spirituality. Whether it be the individual "you" or the collective "we" that the life moves onto after death. Not the mere transfer of energy.

All of that was probably covered. I didn't read the thread. I think you might like Asimov's "Last Question".

 

[darkendless]

I would say you make too many assumptions regarding terminology with life, awareness and infinite. It seems you merely equated life with energy. There are scientific theories which state the concept of a cold universe. Expansion until all energy is dissipated.

Also, the whole concept of life after death has never referred to the notion that energy in the body will be transferred to another form of matter. It is experience after death that matters in spirituality. Whether it be the individual "you" or the collective "we" that the life moves onto after death. Not the mere transfer of energy.

All of that was probably covered. I didn't read the thread. I think you might like Asimov's "Last Question".

Thermodynamics: Heat death of the universe because all free energy has been converted into other forms. This is like every other system so yeh, we're screwed. The first law of thermodynamics is that energy cannot be created or destroyed.

How would energy be transferred? From one body to another? There is no medium we cannot observe that could provide life after death.

 

[Runewolf1973]

To me, life is an energy form, plain and simple.

 

[gnomon]

Thermodynamics: Heat death of the universe because all free energy has been converted into other forms. This is like every other system so yeh, we're screwed. The first law of thermodynamics is that energy cannot be created or destroyed.

How would energy be transferred? From one body to another? There is no medium we cannot observe that could provide life after death.

Basically, the energy in my body being transferred to the worms via consumption and circle of life thing. I picked the term transferred but it's not the best term to use. I'm too tired to put much effort in tonight.

 

[darkendless]

Basically, the energy in my body being transferred to the worms via consumption and circle of life thing. I picked the term transferred but it's not the best term to use. I'm too tired to put much effort in tonight.

I know what you mean, there's no need to be technical

Life involves the consumtpion of energy, we all do it. From the biggest to the smallest we all require energy. Life is energy becuase without it everything would cease to exist.

 

[Runewolf1973]

Basically, the energy in my body being transferred to the worms via consumption and circle of life thing. I picked the term transferred but it's not the best term to use. I'm too tired to put much effort in tonight.

Just one thing... How do particles of energy vibrate, move, and change form if they are "dead" as in "inamimate"? If something is "dead", it should not do anything should it?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

So, whatever happened to that poor frog?

Nothing. No frogs were harmed. It was more of a thought experiment.

If energy cannot be "created" then how is it then that when a male and a female come together to bring new life into the world, a new living conscious being is born? Was that being "created"? Was "awareness" created? Is awareness "created" in the human mind? The creation of new energy that was never energy to begin with? I don't think so. Energy as far as I understand it cannot be created, it can only change form. Energy or awareness that was already present just changed form into new energy and new awareness.

Personally, I don't see why "awareness" is necessarily conserved. Just because we humans put importance on something doesn't mean that it's important to the universe as a whole.

So you think "awareness" can't be created; why that? Why awareness and not democracy, Flemish language ability, anxiety, or something else?

What about appreciation of a really nice glass of scotch? Can that be created or destroyed? Maybe appreciation of a really nice glass of scotch was always present in the universe and only changed form to manifest itself in people who actually physically drink scotch and actually appreciate a nice glass of it. Maybe, billions of years before humanity arose, appreciation of a really nice glass of scotch was floating out there in the universe in some other form. Maybe, at some fundamental level, even electrons have a hankering for some fine whisky. Does that sound reasonable?

Here's my point: awareness is only an important thing because humans place importance on it... just like all sorts of other things. There's no particular reason to say that it can't be an emergent property and other human traits can't be.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Just one thing... How do particles of energy vibrate, move, and change form if they are "dead" as in "inamimate"? If something is "dead", it should not do anything should it?

Well that's an easy question: if something moves or vibrates, it's because it has kinetic energy. Kinetic energy is not the same thing as life.