Life after death is a scientific FACT.

[CarlinKnew]

Nothing. No frogs were harmed. It was more of a thought experiment.


Personally, I don't see why "awareness" is necessarily conserved. Just because we humans put importance on something doesn't mean that it's important to the universe as a whole.

So you think "awareness" can't be created; why that? Why awareness and not democracy, Flemish language ability, anxiety, or something else?

What about appreciation of a really nice glass of scotch? Can that be created or destroyed? Maybe appreciation of a really nice glass of scotch was always present in the universe and only changed form to manifest itself in people who actually physically drink scotch and actually appreciate a nice glass of it. Maybe, billions of years before humanity arose, appreciation of a really nice glass of scotch was floating out there in the universe in some other form. Maybe, at some fundamental level, even electrons have a hankering for some fine whisky. Does that sound reasonable?

Here's my point: awareness is only an important thing because humans place importance on it... just like all sorts of other things. There's no particular reason to say that it can't be an emergent property and other human traits can't be.

Cheers, I'll drink to that. Well said... now if only I had a really nice glass of scotch

 

[Runewolf1973]

There is always something that is the cause or result of something else. Action and a reaction. I love a good scotch.

 

[Runewolf1973]

Well that's an easy question: if something moves or vibrates, it's because it has kinetic energy. Kinetic energy is not the same thing as life.

Oh, I forgot, life is something magical created by God. The power of God makes us move around.

 

[zenzero]

Friend Runewolf,

Oh, I forgot, life is something magical created by God. The power of God makes us move around.

Where did this *god* come in from?
We were talking about ENERGY?

Personally would rather allow the future to take its own course.
Attempts if any are just to be CONSCIOUS of the PRESENT.
LOve & rgds

 

[Runewolf1973]

Friend Runewolf,



Where did this *god* come in from?
We were talking about ENERGY?

Personally would rather allow the future to take its own course.
Attempts if any are just to be CONSCIOUS of the PRESENT.
LOve & rgds

Ha! Ha!, it was just me being sarcastic, sorry.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

There is always something that is the cause or result of something else. Action and a reaction.

Is there? You seemed rather into quantum mechanics in your OP; now, not so much?

In any case, the effect does not have to be the same type of things as the cause. Sometimes the force on the billiard ball comes from another ball; sometimes it comes from a bumper. Does this make the bumper a ball?

I love a good scotch.

So do I.

Oh, I forgot, life is something magical created by God. The power of God makes us move around.

You didn't get that from me - I'm an atheist.

 

[Mr Manson]

"Life" after death exists, just not the same life.

Atoms contain energy. Such energy combined with other atoms's energy creates more energy, and also creates diferent kinds of energy. Electrical energy, gravity/magnet's energy, and many many more kinds. When anything decomposes, whether a living being or not, it's atoms get mixed with all other atoms that surround them, either by simply being reduced to cells and then to loose atoms that imediately connect to adjacent atoms, or by any other means like serving as food for worms.

All those atoms that got scattered will create certain combinations of energy with all the atoms that they connected with and thus allowing the creation of something new. I believe that only living beings can create other living beings by procreation and I believe the only living beings that can get created spontaneously are, in example, fungus, algae, and many micro organisms and unicelular beings. The latest ones can most surely evolve into more complex beings over long periods of time. That is according to science theories and seems logic if you look at how they grow.


As for the awareness after life, I fear it's most impossible. When you get decomposed, your brain gets too, and all it's atoms get scattered aswell. Thus the attoms from your brain would be most likely contained in more that just few new life forms, if they would even be contained in life forms. And even if they still kept the electrical energy that had in their previous life form, I doubt it would be enough to bring back any memories. Plus, they had to be again part of a brain to that end. Remember, it can take just a tiny portion of your brain to be damaged for you to get fully disfunctional. So I really doubt that an atomic-sized piece of brain would ever be able to keep any memory with it. This makes me totaly skeptic about hypnotic regression. I fear that people who went through it, saw nothing more than what they see in their dreams every night while their brain isn't fully functional. Even though it may be good therapy.

And by the way, Science doesn't give facts, it gives theories. The only kind of Science that gives you facts is Mathematics.
Don't argue about if Science is or not exact. It's mostly based upon theories and scientists never claimed otherwise. But remember to look around you and behold all the things you have that would have never been made without such theories. If a certain theory would be wrong, would you be looking at my post through your monitor, for example? Would you have Toy Laser Beams, micro-waves, TV, CD's, Automobiles, (safe) airplanes, weather forecast, astronomic knowledge, (non) Digital Cameras, satelites, ovens, magnets, lights, .... and millions of things, surelly including all you have in front of you now?
Think about it.

See how a "simple" Toy Laser Beam works, for example:
http :// science.howstuffworks.com/laser4.htm
(Take out the spaces. I'm not allowed to post links yet.)

 

[Thief]

Thief here...
So far some science...some speculation...

How about some up close observation?

When I was so much younger a freak accident took my eyes for seven days.
I did not stop thinking, and my emotions remained.
Years later, another freak accident left my arms cold and unresponsive.
I recovered.
Other mishaps and considerations lead me to say...
Loss of flesh doesn't stop you.

However, the brain would be that connection to your body, and should that item be harmed, your thinking and your emotional state can be dysfunctional.
Life after death would require a separation of mind and brain.
If the separation fails you will follow your body into the grave.

Eternal darkness is physically real.
No form of light follows a man into the grave.
Life would suck in the confines of a coffin.
Life after death should include escape of the body.
Life after death is a possibility...not a fact.

Has any one heard of Edgar Cayce?

 

[Runewolf1973]

Is there? You seemed rather into quantum mechanics in your OP; now, not so much?

In any case, the effect does not have to be the same type of things as the cause. Sometimes the force on the billiard ball comes from another ball; sometimes it comes from a bumper. Does this make the bumper a ball?


So do I.


You didn't get that from me - I'm an atheist.

Well, whatever the case, thank you for the replies. I can appreciate your point of view and it does make logical sense to be an atheist. Perhaps I'm just not completely logical. But I like it that way.

 

[Smoke]

A light bulb?

Now we're getting somewhere.

When a light bulb burns out, where does its life force go? Does the light bulb continue to live on in another form?

 

[Runewolf1973]

Now we're getting somewhere.

When a light bulb burns out, where does its life force go? Does the light bulb continue to live on in another form?

Of course, just as everything does.

 

[Mr Manson]

Now we're getting somewhere.

When a light bulb burns out, where does its life force go? Does the light bulb continue to live on in another form?

Electricity goes into any electric device through one line and goes out through the other. Always moving on, it's not wasted in the device as many people may think. It rather goes in and out and to the next device somewhere else. That's why the plugs have two terminals. One in and one out.
So in this case, it just cuts the circuit making the energy go back and into another circuit.

Electronics are not my specialty :drool: I'm just curious.

The bulb itself, it's something I don't really know because I don't know how glass is recycled.
But... there's no life in a bulb...

 

[Thief]

Thief here...
So last I heard...and I've been through the test...
There are three states of mind which can be demonstrated.....
scientifically.
The machine will register...when you are awake...when you are asleep...
and when you are dreaming.

Death takes away the 'awake' part.
Death takes away the the 'wake up' part.

That leaves dreaming.

So you believe you can discuss life after death as science?
There are no machines for that.

I can tell you with certainty...none the less...life after death is not an item
you will escape by waking up.
Do you dream well?

 

[Smoke]

Of course, just as everything does.

That's an interesting belief, but I'd hardly call it a scientific one.

But... there's no life in a bulb...

And though humans are more complicated than light bulbs, there's no more scientific evidence for a soul or life force in humans than there is in light bulbs.

 

[tumbleweed41]

If something that requires energy, but is not itself a form of energy, then what it?

A light bulb?

You're saying a light bulb, it's structure is not composed of atoms, electron, protons and such? That does not make sense.

Yes, a light bulb is composed of atoms, electrons, protons and "such", as is all matter.
Matter is not energy, energy is not matter. Energy can be converted to matter, and and matter to energy.
However they are not the same.

 

[tumbleweed41]

Electricity goes into any electric device through one line and goes out through the other. Always moving on, it's not wasted in the device as many people may think. It rather goes in and out and to the next device somewhere else. That's why the plugs have two terminals. One in and one out.
So in this case, it just cuts the circuit making the energy go back and into another circuit.

Electronics are not my specialty :drool: I'm just curious.

The bulb itself, it's something I don't really know because I don't know how glass is recycled.
But... there's no life in a bulb...

Electricity moves along the "hot" wire to the appliance, in this case the light bulb.
When it reaches the light bulb it travels through the "filament" . The filament is made of material that has a high "ohms" or resistance to the flow of the electricity. The resistance converts some of the electricity to light and heat. (energy conversion)
The remaining electricity then travels along the "neutral" wire to a grounding bar, where it is grounded out.
No matter how many lights or appliances are connected to a single circuit, the line has to be "grounded". It does not continue on to other circuits.

 

[Jeremiah]

For me it is not a matter of "is there life after death" or not. There is always life after death, it is even scientifically proven. It is a fact. Everything that exists, even our very own life-force is a form of energy which can neither be created nor destroyed, only change form. Therefore it is merely a question of what will we change into when we die. Personally I tend to agree with the quantum physicists...everything has potential. The universe is full of infinite possibilities. If a simple electron can have the "awareness" to realize there is an observer and be able to change its response, then I am certain that after "death" (changing form) I would most surely be able to retain at least some of my own "awareness". Perhaps not enough awareness to retain previous life memories though, which would make sense anyways as to why people don't generally "remember" their past lives. Even if all the life in the entire Universe was extinguished (died), life would still reappear given enough time and the right conditions. That in itself would be another form of "life after death". But that's my opinion. I don't believe that life after death has to necessarily be equated with the "supernatural". As they say, life goes on... So does that make any logical sense to you? Opinions?

"For me it is not a matter of "is there life after death" or not. There is always life after death, it is even scientifically proven. It is a fact. Everything that exists, even our very own life-force is a form of energy which can neither be created nor destroyed, only change form. "

This really is just an argument of semantic.


" Therefore it is merely a question of what will we change into when we die. Personally I tend to agree with the quantum physicists...everything has potential. The universe is full of infinite possibilities."

The often ridiculed consequence of these opinions is that they destroy themselves. For by asserting that all is true we assert the truth of the contrary assertion and consequently the falsity of our own thesis (for the contrary assertion does not admit that it can be true). And if one says that all is false, that assertion is itself false. If we declare that solely the assertion opposed to ours is false or else that solely ours is not false, we are nevertheless forced to admit an infinite number of true or false judgments. For the one who expresses a true assertion proclaims simultaneously that it is true, and so on ad infinitum. - Aristotle

 

[darkendless]

"Life" after death exists, just not the same life.

Atoms contain energy. Such energy combined with other atoms's energy creates more energy, and also creates diferent kinds of energy. Electrical energy, gravity/magnet's energy, and many many more kinds. When anything decomposes, whether a living being or not, it's atoms get mixed with all other atoms that surround them, either by simply being reduced to cells and then to loose atoms that imediately connect to adjacent atoms, or by any other means like serving as food for worms.

All those atoms that got scattered will create certain combinations of energy with all the atoms that they connected with and thus allowing the creation of something new. I believe that only living beings can create other living beings by procreation and I believe the only living beings that can get created spontaneously are, in example, fungus, algae, and many micro organisms and unicelular beings. The latest ones can most surely evolve into more complex beings over long periods of time. That is according to science theories and seems logic if you look at how they grow.


As for the awareness after life, I fear it's most impossible. When you get decomposed, your brain gets too, and all it's atoms get scattered aswell. Thus the attoms from your brain would be most likely contained in more that just few new life forms, if they would even be contained in life forms. And even if they still kept the electrical energy that had in their previous life form, I doubt it would be enough to bring back any memories. Plus, they had to be again part of a brain to that end. Remember, it can take just a tiny portion of your brain to be damaged for you to get fully disfunctional. So I really doubt that an atomic-sized piece of brain would ever be able to keep any memory with it. This makes me totaly skeptic about hypnotic regression. I fear that people who went through it, saw nothing more than what they see in their dreams every night while their brain isn't fully functional. Even though it may be good therapy.

And by the way, Science doesn't give facts, it gives theories. The only kind of Science that gives you facts is Mathematics.
Don't argue about if Science is or not exact. It's mostly based upon theories and scientists never claimed otherwise. But remember to look around you and behold all the things you have that would have never been made without such theories. If a certain theory would be wrong, would you be looking at my post through your monitor, for example? Would you have Toy Laser Beams, micro-waves, TV, CD's, Automobiles, (safe) airplanes, weather forecast, astronomic knowledge, (non) Digital Cameras, satelites, ovens, magnets, lights, .... and millions of things, surelly including all you have in front of you now?
Think about it.

See how a "simple" Toy Laser Beam works, for example:
http :// science.howstuffworks.com/laser4.htm
(Take out the spaces. I'm not allowed to post links yet.)

They call it either organic soil (topsoil) or the black plague lol.

Topsoil as we know it is decomposed dead things for the most part lol. In my home town i lived maybe 300m from a cemetary and the neighbours always had nice fertile soil and 1kg tomatoes

 

[science_is_my_god]

For me it is not a matter of "is there life after death" or not. There is always life after death, it is even scientifically proven. It is a fact. Everything that exists, even our very own life-force is a form of energy which can neither be created nor destroyed, only change form

And that form becomes a corpse, then decomposes into a skeletal form, and then slowly, after many years, decomposes into carbon and calcium deposits. Eventually, we basically become a big pile of dirt. But even dirt still doesn't equal nothing. It becomes a judgement call whether or not you call that "life."

Personally I tend to agree with the quantum physicists...everything has potential. The universe is full of infinite possibilities. If a simple electron can have the "awareness" to realize there is an observer and be able to change its response, then I am certain that after "death" (changing form) I would most surely be able to retain at least some of my own "awareness". Perhaps not enough awareness to retain previous life memories though, which would make sense anyways as to why people don't generally "remember" their past lives. Even if all the life in the entire Universe was extinguished (died), life would still reappear given enough time and the right conditions. That in itself would be another form of "life after death". But that's my opinion. I don't believe that life after death has to necessarily be equated with the "supernatural". As they say, life goes on... So does that make any logical sense to you? Opinions?

Sure. Sounds great. But life after our own is not exactly our life, it's merely our atomic structure getting recycled. Mother nature appartently likes to be eco-friendly.

 

[Runewolf1973]

Hmmm... I think I might just have to conduct some experiments for myself. My fiancee claims to be able to see and talk to spirits of the dead. She says she even sees them literally and talks to them as though they were regular people walking around. To be honest, even I have had my doubts about it, so I think I need to try something out. This is my idea, it may not entirely be "scientific", but it should still at least prove whether or not her abilities are genuine or not. I plan to get her to talk to one of these spirits (one that she says is always around in our house anyways) and see if this "spirit" can follow me alone upstairs to a private room with doors closed. In the room I will take three maybe four random objects and set them on the bed. If there was a so-called spirit watching me do this, my fiancee should be able to ask the spirit and tell me specifically what the three objects were that I set on the bed. I know this does not sound very scientific, but if it works, I could always try it again and again, just to eliminate any possibility of her just "guessing" the right objects. If she's that good at "guessing"...my god!!... I might just take her over to the lottery ticket center.
Anyways, what do you guys think of this for an experiment? I will let you all know the results.