Life Begins at Conception

[S-word]

At the risk of being censured, "Up yours." We're done.

I must admit that I'm a little ignorant as to Americian slang terminology, but knowing that "Up" means "Higher," I am assuming that what you meant here, in saying "Up yours, we're done," is, "I concede to your higher or "Up Yours" reasoning and therefore the debate is done or finished.

 

[DarkSun]

It was. And it has been shown conclusively that life began long before conception: End of discussion. If you wish to debate whether the forming animal foetus in which and independant spirit/mind will develop after it is born can be classified as a human being which is contrary to Christian scripture, then you should begin a new thread.

Well, I see there really is no point discussing anything with you, since you're the type of person who sees everyone who may disagree with you as utterly wrong. Have fun with that.

 

[S-word]

Wasn't this thread about life beginning at conception?

Post 179 by S-word: It was. And it has been shown conclusively that life began long before conception: End of discussion. If you wish to debate whether the forming animal foetus in which an independant spirit/mind will develop after it is born can be classified as a human being which is contrary to Christian scripture, then you should begin a new thread.

quote=DarkSun; Well, I see there really is no point discussing anything with you, since you're the type of person who sees everyone who may disagree with you as utterly wrong. Have fun with that.

Knowing that Life began long before any female ever conceived in her womb and knowing that no person on this forum has a clue as to when life began, I see no point in debating this issue any further, if on the other hand, you wish to debate the morality of aborting an unborn animal foetus, then I believe that a different thread would be the appropriate venue. As to the type of person that I am, that's something that you will never know.

 

[DarkSun]

Didn't you say "end of discussion"?

I see no point in continuing a discussion that's ended. :sarcastic

 

[S-word]

Didn't you say "end of discussion"?

I see no point in continuing a discussion that's ended. :sarcastic

Yes, but that was in referrence to my discussion with sandy whitelinger [mod edit]. Unless of course you believe that life did not exist before the first conception by living beings.

 

[DarkSun]

[mod edit]

Well, I see there really is no point discussing anything with you, since you're the type of person who sees everyone who may disagree with you as utterly wrong. Have fun with that.

So I'm ignorant for believing that existence precedes essence? I'm childish for saying that the 'animal fetus', as you put it, still constitutes life just as much as a newborn baby does?

Well, I'm terribly sorry if my disagreement with you makes me inferior.

Anyway, I'm done with this thread.

Have a good life.

DS.

PS - Having turned eighteen this year legally makes me an adult in my country. Not that age really matters.

 

[S-word]

[mod edit]


quote=DarkSun; So I'm ignorant for believing that existence precedes essence?

By S-word: The quote is life before conception.

quote=DarkSun; I'm childish for saying that the 'animal fetus', as you put it, still constitutes life just as much as a newborn baby does?

By S-word: Life is the animating principle that activates all living things from microbe to man, and sapient/ sentient life did not begin as you say, at conception; I refer you to the last line of you post, number 170..

quote=DarkSun; Well, I'm terribly sorry if my disagreement with you makes me inferior.

By S-word: You have the potential to be superior to most, if not all who are on this forum, but as of now, you are ignorant to many truths and do not, it seems, wish to be informed by your elders and instead, choose to classify them as some type who are not worth listening to.


quote=DarkSun; Post 170: Define sentient/sapient life.
What if we aborted a "fetus" two weeks before it would otherwise be born? Would that be murder? To me that sounds like killing babies.

What if the fetus is aborted four weeks before? Six weeks? Twelve weeks?

Where do you draw the line?

Personally, I say at conception.

By S-word: What do say happens at conception? Surely not that the fertilised egg at the point of conception is either sapient or sentient.

Just for the record: Sapient having wisdom; wise; discerning, which cannot be associated with an unborn foetus.----Sentient having the power of sensation, conscious to feelings of pain and delight which most if not all animals experience.


quote=DarkSun; PS - Having turned eighteen this year legally makes me an adult in my country. Not that age really matters.
Anyway, I'm done with this thread.
Have a good life.


By S-word: When I was 18 up here in Queensland, I wasn't allowed to legally consume alcohol in a public place until I was 21: Oh, I could be sent off to die for my country, but I couldn't have a beer in a bar, but let me tell you young fellow, I intend to enjoy as many moments that I have left on this earth [mod edit]. Have a good life yourself.

 

[DarkSun]

[mod edit]

By S-word: The quote is life before conception.

Yes. And if existence precedes essence, then aborting an unknowing fetus is just as bad as murdering a newborn child with a knife. While both "organism's" natures aren't fully developed, and even though in both instances they would not be considered sapient or sentient -- murder is murder. You're still killing life.

And don't give me that "life began well before conception" nonsense. A gamete doesn't even have the potential to become a real person until fertilisation of an oocyte occurs.

By S-word: Life is the animating principle that activates all living things from microbe to man, and sapient/ sentient life did not begin as you say, at conception; I refer you to the last line of you post, number 170.

Murdering a human and lysing a prokaryote are two completely different things.

By S-word: You have the potential to be superior to most, if not all who are on this forum, but as of now, you are ignorant to many truths and do not, it seems, wish to be informed by your elders and instead, choose to classify them as some type who are not worth listening to.

In my eyes, there us no such thing as "truth". Only perspective. And I can see where you're coming from too, but I disagree. That does not mean I'm choosing not to listen to you, that I am ignorant or that I am "failing to reach my potential". All it means is that I disagree.

By S-word: When I was 18 up here in Queensland, I wasn't allowed to legally consume alcohol in a public place until I was 21: Oh, I could be sent off to die for my country, but I couldn't have a beer in a bar, but let me tell you young fellow, I intend to enjoy as many moments that I have left on this earth [mod edit]. Have a good life yourself.

Well done using the quote function there.

By the way, I don't drink.

Bye.

 

[S-word]

Okay, last post. >_>

quote=DarkSun; I'm ignorant because I disagree with you? Wow.

By S-word: No, not because you disagree with me, but because you say that you believe that life did not begin until conception, when you know very well that life exists in all living beings and is passed down from generation to generation of all the living species from which we evolved.


quote=DarkSun; Yes. And if existence precedes essence, then aborting an unknowing fetus is just as bad as murdering a newborn child with a knife. While both "organism's" natures aren't fully developed, and even though in both instances they would not be considered sapient or sentient -- murder is murder. You're still killing life.

By S-word: I live off the land and we kill our own meat; every week I bring to an end the life of many creatures such as fish, birds and animals, do you do as Cain did to his brother, and accuse me as a murderer?

quote=DarkSun; And don't give me that "life began well before conception" nonsense. A gamete doesn't even have the potential to become a real person until fertilisation of an oocyte occurs.

By S-word: You are correct, a gamete (A mature living animal sperm capable of particapating in fertilisation) only has the Potential to become a human being after the fertilisation of a cell of the animal ovary, or an oocyte, but like you have stated, it then only has the potential to become a human being after it has gone through the animal stages in the growth and development of a human baby.

quote=DarkSun; Murdering a human and lysing a prokaryote are two completely different things.

By S-word: I am as certain that the dissolution of a living organism of genetic material that is not bounded by a nuclear membrane is different from murdering a human being as I am that aborting a developing foetus is also not the same as murdering a human being.



quote=DarkSun; In my eyes, there us no such thing as "truth". Only perspective. And I can see where you're coming from too, but I disagree. That does not mean I'm choosing not to listen to you, that I am ignorant or that I am "failing to reach my potential". All it means is that I disagree.

By S-word: This is you post number182; quote=DarkSun; Well, I see (there really is no point discussing anything with you,) since you're the type of person who sees everyone who may disagree with you as utterly wrong. Have fun with that.

By S-word: Then believing that there is no such thing as truth, you have consigned yourself to a life in which you will never discover any truths, so why bother even searching, for according to you there are no truths out there to be discovered, better to remain ignorant hey?

quote=DarkSun; Well done using the quote function there. By S-word: Thank you

quote=DarkSun; By the way, I don't drink. Bye.

By S-word: Me neither, gettin to old to handle the good life. Bye

 

[Sententia]

?????]

I never thought the quote feature of BB Code was all that hard. sigh.

By S-word: Then believing that there is no such thing as truth, you have consigned yourself to a life in which you will never discover any truths, so why bother even searching, for according to you there are no truths out there to be discovered, better to remain ignorant hey?

"The company of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the company of those who think they've found it."

And with good reason. There is a lot of wisdom in that simple quote.

 

[DallasApple]

One thing that never made any sense to me are the people who make claims like "your trying to play God" when someone wants to pull the plug, yet see nothing wrong with using a machine to keep someone alive who would be dead without the machine.

How is attaching someone to a machine to keep them alive not "playing God" but turning said machine of is?

I have no idea..seems to me we play God with heart transplants and root canals too.Not to mention tieing our tubes and visectomies and putting our animals to sleep.OH thats right those people (and animals) already are born THEN we can play God on them.

Love

Dallas

 

[DarkSun]

I have no idea..seems to me we play God with heart transplants and root canals too.Not to mention tieing our tubes and visectomies and putting our animals to sleep.OH thats right those people (and animals) already are born THEN we can play God on them.

Love

Dallas

The difference being we're not taking life away there, but saving it.

 

[DarkSun]

S-Word, may I please ask you a question?

Well, I have two questions actually.

Here they are:

1. If you knew a woman who was pregnant, who had 8 kids already, three who were deaf, two who were blind, one mentally retarded, and she had syphilis, would you recommend that she have an abortion?


2. A poor black family in the South is expecting a fifth child. This family, because of its skin color, already has difficulty receiving help and are already at the bare minimum poverty level. The outlook for their present children does not look bright. Abortion or Not?

 

[DarkSun]

Then believing that there is no such thing as truth, you have consigned yourself to a life in which you will never discover any truths, so why bother even searching, for according to you there are no truths out there to be discovered, better to remain ignorant hey?

Hardly.

I do have my own perception of reality, but I don't view my own views as superior to anyone elses'. What is right for one person is right for them, and who am I to say otherwise?

 

[McBell]

The difference being we're not taking life away there, but saving it.

So it is just fine to play god when it is something you agree with, but not ok to play god when it is something you disagree with?

 

[S-word]

S-Word, may I please ask you a question?

Well, I have two questions actually.

Here they are:

1. If you knew a woman who was pregnant, who had 8 kids already, three who were deaf, two who were blind, one mentally retarded, and she had syphilis, would you recommend that she have an abortion?


2. A poor black family in the South is expecting a fifth child. This family, because of its skin color, already has difficulty receiving help and are already at the bare minimum poverty level. The outlook for their present children does not look bright. Abortion or Not?

I had already stated in another thread called "Are Human Embryos Human beings" that I will do everything in my power to convince a member of my family to take their pregnancy to its full term unless the foetus is severely malformed, but in the end it would have to be the decision of the female member of the family, and if it was her choice to abort, it would be done with my full support.

And so to both of your questions I would not advise these women one way or another
If the woman who was pregnant, who had 8 kids already, three who were deaf, two who were blind, one mentally retarded, and she had syphilis, thought that she could handle having another child, then so be it, I have no authority over her life; if on the other hand she wished to abort rather than put another child through suffering caused by her syphilis, then she would have my total support.

As to the second poor black family in the South expecting a fifth child, and because of that families skin color, they already have difficulty receiving help and are already at the bare minimum poverty level, and the outlook for their present children does not look bright. Same scenario mate, same scenario.

 

[S-word]

Hardly.

I do have my own perception of reality, but I don't view my own views as superior to anyone elses'. What is right for one person is right for them, and who am I to say otherwise?

Are you saying then, that when you meet someone, "And you will," who are ignorant to certain facts that you know to be true, and you understand that by allowing that person to remain in their ignorance it will lead them into sever trouble if not death, you will walk away and allow them to blindly stumble on into that which you know lies ahead for them? Well good luck in what's left of your life.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Please provide the "correct" translation.

Luke 2: 5; as originally written in the Greek, uses the Greek word "eykous," which means "Pregnant, holding in, conceiving," see 'Young's Analytical Concordance to the Bible.' Irrelevant to what the English translators have written, the Bible said that Mary's pregnancy was nearing its full term.

Is this the same young of the Youngs bible?

No...

Just so I have this straight. Robert Young (1822-1888) who wrote Young's Literal Translation is not the same robert Young who wrote Analytical Concordance to the Bible?

 

[sandy whitelinger]

I must admit that I'm a little ignorant as to Americian slang terminology, but knowing that "Up" means "Higher," I am assuming that what you meant here, in saying "Up yours, we're done," is, "I concede to your higher or "Up Yours" reasoning and therefore the debate is done or finished.

Unless you are too "happy wallowing in your dark ignorance, [and at] the shock of being dragged into the world of enlightenment," try here:

Definition

 

[S-word]

Just so I have this straight. Robert Young (1822-1888) who wrote

Young's Literal Translation is not the same robert Young who wrote Analytical Concordance to the Bible?

Robert Young compiled Young's Analytical Concordance to the Bible, but it is based upon the King James Translation, not as your question was directed, "to Youngs Bible," and gives the meaning to every Hebrew and Greek word used in the King James translation, even to where 'A' instead of 'THE' appears in that translation, such as Hebrew 5: 8; where other translations interpret "The Son of God," or "God's Son" whereas the correct translation is "A Son of God."

Because the English is forced to observe rules of the Greek language, unless one is familiar with Greek syntax and vocabulary, it’s hard to explain how the Greek ‘eykuos,’ which is used in Luke 2: 5; and has been translated to the English as “with child” is not an exact translation. I hope that you are not going to be like DarkSun who also cannot be true to his word and has sent two or three supposedly last posts to me. Post 180: At the risk of being censured, "Up yours." We're done. I received an infraction for calling someone an "ignorant child", I am assuming that you must have received one also for your little "UP YOURS" comment