Life Begins at Conception

[Archer]

If that's your real justification for believing what you do about this, then why the Bible study side show?

I quoted the OP, I showed where we are commanded to have children, to kill a mass of cells intentionally that will form a child is going against this command.

My premise for being anti abortion

I then showed: Psalm 139

12 even the darkness will not be dark to you;
the night will shine like the day,
for darkness is as light to you.
13 For you created my inmost being;
you knit me together in my mother's womb.
14 I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
your works are wonderful,
I know that full well.
15 My frame was not hidden from you
when I was made in the secret place.
When I was woven together in the depths of the earth,
16 your eyes saw my unformed body.
All the days ordained for me
were written in your book
before one of them came to be.
17 How precious to [a] me are your thoughts, O God!
How vast is the sum of them!

Which shows that God interacts with the fetus from conception and see's it as life. Therefore to kill it is to go against the doctrine of Love and also is committing murder.

And this is the cinch in the knot to answer the question:
Jeremiah 1
4The word of the Lord came to me, saying,
5“Before I formed you in the womb I knewa you,
before you were born I set you apart;
I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.”
6“Ah, Sovereign Lord,” I said, “I do not know how to speak; I am only a child.”
7But the Lord said to me, “Do not say, ‘I am only a child.’ You must go to everyone I send you to and say whatever I command you. 8Do not be afraid of them, for I am with you and will rescue you,” declares the Lord.


So if God sees us as alive before birth then it is murder.


ANSWER: YES LIFE @ CONCEPTION EVEN SCIENCE TELLS US THAT!!


It is entirely relevant to the OP and directly answers it.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I quoted the OP, I showed where we are commanded to have children, to kill a mass of cells intentionally that will form a child is going against this command.

My premise for being anti abortion

It's no more "against this command" than not having sex with the person in the first place, and there's no Biblical prohibition on being choosy about who we sleep with.

Which shows that God interacts with the fetus from conception and see's it as life. Therefore to kill it is to go against the doctrine of Love and also is committing murder.

It says that God "interacts with" our whole lives before they happen.

And this is the cinch in the knot to answer the question:
Jeremiah 1
4The word of the Lord came to me, saying,
5“Before I formed you in the womb I knewa you,
before you were born I set you apart;
I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.”
6“Ah, Sovereign Lord,” I said, “I do not know how to speak; I am only a child.”
7But the Lord said to me, “Do not say, ‘I am only a child.’ You must go to everyone I send you to and say whatever I command you. 8Do not be afraid of them, for I am with you and will rescue you,” declares the Lord.


So if God sees us as alive before birth then it is murder.

Interesting: it say "before I formed you in the womb", not "while I formed you in the womb". This seems like more of a justification for belief in pre-existing souls than it does anything to do with abortion.

ANSWER: YES LIFE @ CONCEPTION EVEN SCIENCE TELLS US THAT!!

Science says that life is a continuum stretching back uninterrupted from present day to when life first emerged on the planet. It says nothing about when a "person" is created.

And of your Bible quotes, two don't say anything about the issue at all, and one implies that life begins before conception - not at conception - if it implies anything.

 

[Archer]

It's no more "against this command" than not having sex with the person in the first place, and there's no Biblical prohibition on being choosy about who we sleep with.


It says that God "interacts with" our whole lives before they happen.


Interesting: it say "before I formed you in the womb", not "while I formed you in the womb". This seems like more of a justification for belief in pre-existing souls than it does anything to do with abortion.


Science says that life is a continuum stretching back uninterrupted from present day to when life first emerged on the planet. It says nothing about when a "person" is created.

And of your Bible quotes, two don't say anything about the issue at all, and one implies that life begins before conception - not at conception - if it implies anything.

Don't twist it. You are intelligent and you are not illiterate You know exactly what it says and I am giving it directly. Now I will interpret.

We are commanded to procreate. God knows our soul and knit's us together, that is @ conception sperm and egg.

Stop twisting the truth. You don't believe any of this any way.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Don't twist it. You are intelligent and you are not illiterate You know exactly what it says and I am giving it directly. Now I will interpret.

We are commanded to procreate. God knows our soul and knit's us together.

How do you interpret the word "before"? Do you think it means "during", or does it mean "before"?

Stop twisting the truth. You don't believe any of this any way.

Meh. Once Christians stop imposing their views on this issue on the lives of non-believers, then I'll hold my tongue. As long as they try to make their theology the grounds for public law and policy, it's a fit subject for debate by anybody.

 

[Archer]

How do you interpret the word "before"? Do you think it means "during", or does it mean "before"?

Before and during (@conception) and after birth!
5“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you,
before you were born I set you apart;

For you created my inmost being;
you knit me together in my mother's womb.

Psalm 22:9 Yet you brought me out of the womb;
you made me trust in you
even at my mother’s breast.



Looks pretty clear!

Meh. Once Christians stop imposing their views on this issue on the lives of non-believers, then I'll hold my tongue. As long as they try to make their theology the grounds for public law and policy, it's a fit subject for debate by anybody.

Ok, so we are the problem, accept that all of us have a view and we will fight amongst ourselves until the end. I guess you have nothing you want to impose on us? We are just supposed to sit back while you murder?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Before and during (@conception) and after birth!

Okay: so you do agree that it says that either life or the person existed before conception, right?

I personally think the most reasonable interpretation of this is as a soul separate from the body, since before conception, there would be no body. Do you agree?

Now, when does the Bible say that this soul is placed in the body?

Ok, so we are the problem, accept that all of us have a view and we will fight amongst ourselves until the end. I guess you have nothing you wany to impose on us? We are just supposed to sit back while you murder?

I probably do have things that I impose on other people. And if you see fault in the rationalization given for them, feel free to fire away.

We all have the right to comment on things that affect our lives.

 

[McBell]

The first command God gave:

[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]"And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth." King James Version, Genesis 1:28[/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]"God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground." New International Version, Genesis 1:28[/FONT]
This is the first commandment to man!

Psalm 139


12 even the darkness will not be dark to you;
the night will shine like the day,
for darkness is as light to you.
13 For you created my inmost being;
you knit me together in my mother's womb.
14 I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
your works are wonderful,
I know that full well.
15 My frame was not hidden from you
when I was made in the secret place.
When I was woven together in the depths of the earth,
16 your eyes saw my unformed body.
All the days ordained for me
were written in your book
before one of them came to be.
17 How precious to [a] me are your thoughts, O God!
How vast is the sum of them!

None of this has anything to do with life beginning at conception.

So if God knows us before, then is it not murder in the eyes of God to kill an unborn child.

this has nothing to do with the thread topic.

 

[Archer]

Okay: so you do agree that it says that either life or the person existed before conception, right?

I personally think the most reasonable interpretation of this is as a soul separate from the body, since before conception, there would be no body. Do you agree?

Now, when does the Bible say that this soul is placed in the body?

When God is in there sewing you together! @ 21-22 weeks the pregnancy can be successful. So from conception we are!

I probably do have things that I impose on other people. And if you see fault in the rationalization given for them, feel free to fire away.

We all have the right to comment on things that affect our lives.

That is what makes us human! If we all had the same thoughts and dreams we would be ants

 

[Archer]

None of this has anything to do with life beginning at conception.



this has nothing to do with the thread topic.

It has everything to do with it.

I have made my point you will argue but I am done with this! Nothing I posted can be refuted. Black and White. Sure you can twist and play but deep in your gut you know. Hell you don't care any way.

The OP has been answered.

I all done now:run:

 

[McBell]

Before and during (@conception) and after birth!
5“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you,
before you were born I set you apart;

For you created my inmost being;
you knit me together in my mother's womb.

Psalm 22:9 Yet you brought me out of the womb;
you made me trust in you
even at my mother’s breast.



Looks pretty clear!

That is nice and all, i guess.
But it does not mention ANYTHING about conception or the beginning of life.

I mean, come on, for all the crap you giving about being a Bible Onlyist, you have gone WAY out of the way to twist these verses to mean life begins at conception.

We are just supposed to sit back while you murder?

oh the drama.

Why are you so intent on changing the subject?

Oh, never mind.
It is because the Bible says absolutely nothing about life beginning at conception.

That must be why you are trying so hard to make this thread about abortion.

 

[McBell]

It has everything to do with it.

I have made my point you will argue but I am done with this! Nothing I posted can be refuted. Black and White. Sure you can twist and play but deep in your gut you know. Hell you don't care any way.

The OP has been answered.

I all done now:run:

problem is that regardless of how many times you tell this lie, it is still merely a lie.

Yes, run away tail tucked.
Don't forget to whine about how we "persecuted" you...

 

[DarkSun]

oh the drama.

Why are you so intent on changing the subject?

Oh, never mind.
It is because the Bible says absolutely nothing about life beginning at conception.

That must be why you are trying so hard to make this thread about abortion.

"Don't murder."

Murder: The act of taking a human life, with premeditation.

Human: A living individual consisting of the full human genome.

 

[Archer]

problem is that regardless of how many times you tell this lie, it is still merely a lie.

Yes, run away tail tucked.
Don't forget to whine about how we "persecuted" you...

I love how you try to draw someone back into things:yes:

I don't have a need to beat anyone, I posted some of the scriptures that answer the OP.

I am sorry if you want to make a game of it, I don't, there is no need to.

 

[gnomon]

"Don't murder."

Murder: The act of taking a human life, with premeditation.

Human: A living individual consisting of the full human genome.

That's interesting.

Your post says absolutely nothing about life beginning at conception.

This forum should hand out a new award. An award for non-sequitors. I keep seeing more and more of them lately.

Though I think no one will beat footprints.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

"Don't murder."

Murder: The act of taking a human life, with premeditation.

Human: A living individual consisting of the full human genome.

Wait... you base the worth of a person on their posession of "the full human genome"?

Are the 1 in 2500 girls who are born with Turner Syndrome not human?

What about people who have more than the full human genome? People with Down Syndrome, for instance? Are they human?

Edit: basing the worth of a person on their genome and not on the actual characteristics of what makes a person a person has some interesting implications, doesn't it?

 

[Charity]

wow.
You really need to pay better attention to what is written.
Please note the () around "the egg":

...the fact that the woman provides half (the egg)...
​

Here it is again with the () emphasized.
So as you can see, I did not say that the woman provides half the egg.

Win?
:biglaugh:

More like fail.

I want it to be known that I did in fact misread Mestemia's post. In my haste to take my grandchild to the ER, I quickly misread the post. I read it last night and to my horror discovered the sin of error.....But I still keep my stance on "conception"
I do give my sincere apology for this error in the post....

Hummm this crow is pretty tasty......Thank you Mestemia......

 

[hindupridemn]

Why is it so important to describe a human? Shouldn't we hold all life sacred?

 

[DarkSun]

Wait... you base the worth of a person on their posession of "the full human genome"?

Are the 1 in 2500 girls who are born with Turner Syndrome not human?

What about people who have more than the full human genome? People with Down Syndrome, for instance? Are they human?

Edit: basing the worth of a person on their genome and not on the actual characteristics of what makes a person a person has some interesting implications, doesn't it?

Well done on twisting my post.

Everyone has a different human genome, so perhaps I actually meant that no one was human? Yes, that must be it.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Well done on twisting my post.

Everyone has a different human genome, so perhaps I actually meant that no one was human? Yes, that must be it.

All right: what did you mean by "human genome"?

If your definition of "human genome" includes the requirement of 46 chromosomes (edit: like a normal human genome), then you exclude many people from your definition of human.

If by "human genome" you just meant "any genome that a human has", then your definition of "human" is circular.

 

[DarkSun]

All right: what did you mean by "human genome"?

If your definition of "human genome" includes the requirement of 46 chromosomes (edit: like a normal human genome), then you exclude many people from your definition of human.

If by "human genome" you just meant "any genome that a human has", then your definition of "human" is circular.

Most definitions are circular, anyway.

That's what I meant.

If we're going to discuss "what makes a human", then perhaps one of us should make another thread?