Life From Dirt?

[timothy1027]

I saw that. But you did not see your strawman arguments even after you were told about them Abiogenesis was not random. It followed the laws of chemistry. Planetary distribution is somewhat random, but life simply will not even begin on inhospitable sources, but there appear to be endless planets like Earth that are available for life. Life is now thought to be almost inevitable if a planet lies in the hospitable zone of a solar system. In ours it runs from not that far outside of Venus's orbit all the way out to Mars.

Please review the definition of "random."

 

[Aupmanyav]

And they will do it over and over and over, which is why they remain ignorant. Once they become certain that they are right, they can no longer learn ... only defend their righteousness.

That is true for those too who thump their books.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Please review the definition of "random."

So are you owning up to your error?

 

[timothy1027]

So are you owning up to your error?

No, what is the "plan" or "purpose" of abiogenesis?

 

[YoursTrue]

No, aren't you paying attention? Evil because he played a rigged game. At the very best God was incompetent and then punished people for his incompetence. That is evil. Or he could have played a rigged game on purpose. That would mean that he was not incompetent, but it would make him even more evil.

This is why you should be glad that the myths of Genesis are not literally true.

Again -- whether you realize it or not, I understand your position . You obviously don't like the specter of death and think if God himself instituted it for humans (and gorillas, cockroaches, etc.), then he's evil. IT DOESN'T MATTER IF YOU THINK IT'S A MYTH.
We die anyway, myth or not, and evolution is how it works insofar as you're concerned. I'm not going into detail now with you because the rest is between you and God. I can only imagine you don't like the idea of death, evolution, life/death or whatever naturally. I'm not going to get more involved now with this. So please excuse. God did not play a rigged game but just like you insist that lava on the ground is not sediment, I understand and for the most part, <smile> this discussion of sorts is over.

 

[Subduction Zone]

No, what is the "plan" or "purpose" of abiogenesis?

None is needed. Now you are quote mining your definition Read the whole thing. Or else your "logic" was totally deficient.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Again -- whether you realize it or not, I understand your position . You obviously don't like the specter of death and think if God himself instituted it for humans (and gorillas, cockroaches, etc.), then he's evil. IT DOESN'T MATTER IF YOU THINK IT'S A MYTH.
We die anyway, myth or not, and evolution is how it works insofar as you're concerned. I'm not going into detail now with you because the rest is between you and God. I can only imagine you don't like the idea of death, evolution, life/death or whatever naturally. I'm not going to get more involved now with this. So please excuse. God did not play a rigged game but just like you insist that lava on the ground is not sediment, I understand and for the most part, <smile> this discussion of sorts is over.

No, your God played an unfair game if you believe that myth. In reality life is part of death.

By just be thankful, your version of God, an evil incompetent and deceitful one, does not exist.

 

[Brian2]

Since science assumes naturalism in its epistemology, I am positive it does.

The question you are actually asking is whether the assumption of naturalism is epistemic complete. I.e. whether it is sufficient to explain all we can observe.

who can say? Maybe yes, maybe no. I am a naturalist, and I say yes, but a not naturalist might not be so sure. But for sure, if there are such truths, that can only be explained by the supernatural, then we can confidently say that science will miss them all. For the simple reason that it does not have the tools for it. It would need to break its own a-priori epistemic rules, losing thereby its “science” definition.

Science does not assume naturalism in it's epistemology, it assumes it in it's methodology. It is open to the supernatural and does not say that there is no God and no angels etc.

however, if we keep into account how many supernatural explanations of the past have been changed into naturalistic ones, and how many lost their naturalistic status to become supernatural, it should be clear to any rational being where she should bet her money.

ciao

- viole

As we know, science has not the tools to find the supernatural and any discovery of mechanisms to explain the natural world does not eliminate God or the supernatural from. It is just that the God of the gaps idea was wrong to begin with and God was not sitting in heaven and throwing lightning bolts etc.
God is the answer to the who question and science finds a "how" answer. And imo science goes too far in with the how answers and steps over into the sphere of theology,,,,,,,,, not on purpose however, it is just that it is wanting to find a naturalistic explanation for things that God has done and ends up defining things in a naturalistic way. eg science can see what chemicals do and what a brain does and ends up defining life and consciousness in terms of chemicals. All science can do is describe how a body might have evolved chemically and what a brain does when it works. It cannot say what life or consciousness it.
In this way science starts trying to fill gaps with naturalistic answers when there really aren't naturalistic answers.

 

[YoursTrue]

No, your God played an unfair game if you believe that myth. In reality life is part of death.

By just be thankful, your version of God, an evil incompetent and deceitful one, does not exist.

Lol according to your concept of "life," and evolution, it's foretold by nature. It's just there. Waiting. Around the corner. Dust to dust. Bye...not evil. Just there. Rocks are not evil, but lava kills almost anything in its path. The sediment. I think you're confused about reality. But be that as it may...have a good one!

 

[Subduction Zone]

Lol according to your concept of "life," and evolution, it's foretold by nature. It's just there. Waiting. Around the corner. Dust to dust. Bye...not evil. Just there. Rocks are not evil, but lava kills almost anything in its path. The sediment. I think you're confused about reality. But be that as it may...have a good one!

Sort of like gravity. Let's say that a friend of yours fell off of a cliff and died. Gravity may have killed him but would you call gravity evil? Evil comes from intent. Gravity just "is". The God of the Bible on the other hand has intent. It has the ability, and sometimes does according to myths, change his mind. Sometimes he decides to kill or allow people to die for petty reasons. People that he didn't need to kill for any good reason. That makes him evil because he did not need to kill those people. Can gravity turn itself off? No, it has no volition. No thought. It cannot be evil.

 

[Brian2]

Sort of like gravity. Let's say that a friend of yours fell off of a cliff and died. Gravity may have killed him but would you call gravity evil? Evil comes from intent. Gravity just "is". The God of the Bible on the other hand has intent. It has the ability, and sometimes does according to myths, change his mind. Sometimes he decides to kill or allow people to die for petty reasons. People that he didn't need to kill for any good reason. That makes him evil because he did not need to kill those people. Can gravity turn itself off? No, it has no volition. No thought. It cannot be evil.

God's killing people for reasons you don't understand does not mean that God is evil. It does show God's sovereignty however and if you think about it a bit you may be able to figure out why the creator of all things is sovereign over them, and you may be able to see a possible reason that God had for killing or allowing people to die.

 

[Astrophile]

The moon and the sun appear to be the same size in the sky, the Earth appears in "the Goldilocks zone" in its orbit around the sun, the moons rotation is "tidally locked" to the earth, life in the Universe is extremely rare & valuable, human consciousness is mysterious & undefined, etc.

The rotation of most of the large satellites in the solar system is tidally locked to their planets; the Moon is not unique in this respect. In any case, the tidally locked rotation of satellites is the result of tidal interaction between the planets and their satellites; there is nothing miraculous or supernatural about it.

Why do you think that the extreme rarity of life makes it valuable? To me, it looks as if the rarity of life, in contrast to the enormous number and diversity of the stars and the galaxies, means that life is an accident and the universe was really created in order to make galaxies and stars.

When a clergyman asked J.B.S. Haldane what characteristics of the Creator he had been able to infer from his scientific work, he replied, 'An inordinate fondness for beetles.' If somebody asked me the same question, I should probably reply, 'An inordinate fondness for supermassive black holes.'

 

[wellwisher]

God's killing people for reasons you don't understand does not mean that God is evil. It does show God's sovereignty however and if you think about it a bit you may be able to figure out why the creator of all things is sovereign over them, and you may be able to see a possible reason that God had for killing or allowing people to die.

The reason God allows things to die is because God also created what humans call evolution. If things did not die, then how would you get evolution to work properly? What was once considered naturally selected and evolved; T-Rex, would still be around. He would not very easy to replace, compared to if that past dies, thereby opening up a slot for change.

The analogy is having term limits for a leader, compared to no term limits. If there are no terms limits, they will use their power to retain power, even undercutting natural change. But if there are term limits, there can be a peaceful changing of the guard for evolution; novelty has space.

A new generation is possible because the movers and shakers, as they get old, sense their own terms limits. The theory of evolution is not necessarily about advancement, but about natural selection at any given time and space. Death of the past alters the natural selective potentials needed for evolution and change.

However, in God's wisdom there are also places to go after death, where living for eternity is possible, but these places needs infinite space and time. The earth is a laboratory for temporal evolution, leading to the perfect creatures who can live on, forever. Perfection means there is no more need for evolution or change; new heaven and earth.

 

[PureX]

That is true for those too who thump their books.

Yes, it is. That addiction to self-righteousness and the ignorance that results shows up on both sides of many ideological debates. Bible infallibility, or scientism; same fantasy of righteousness, just different sides of the theism debate.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Yes, it is. That addiction to self-righteousness and the ignorance that results shows up on both sides of many ideological debates. Bible infallibility, or scientism; same fantasy of righteousness, just different sides of the theism debate.

I agree with you that often those self-righteous in their opinions don't even realize that they are. They know the truth and it is closed to any need to test it.

 

[PureX]

I agree with you that often those self-righteous in their opinions don't even realize that they are. They know the truth and it is closed to any need to test it.

It's frustrating to encounter on a debate site because those that have succumbed to it think it's everyone else's job to overcome their self-righteous ignorance while they tenaciously defend it. They dont converse with an ear to listen or learn, only to negate and dismiss. And it's the same people over and over.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

It's frustrating to encounter on a debate site because those that have succumbed to it think it's everyone else's job to overcome their self-righteous ignorance while they tenaciously defend it. They dont converse with an ear to listen or learn, only to negate and dismiss. And it's the same people over and over.

I agree.

 

[YoursTrue]

Sort of like gravity. Let's say that a friend of yours fell off of a cliff and died. Gravity may have killed him but would you call gravity evil? Evil comes from intent. Gravity just "is". The God of the Bible on the other hand has intent. It has the ability, and sometimes does according to myths, change his mind. Sometimes he decides to kill or allow people to die for petty reasons. People that he didn't need to kill for any good reason. That makes him evil because he did not need to kill those people. Can gravity turn itself off? No, it has no volition. No thought. It cannot be evil.

Here's my take on this now. Evolution just doesn't make a person happy. Unless it does, right? The human brain did not evolve to be very happy, maybe you think? Because a lot of people are not happy. Can't blame evolution, it's not a person, right? So it just is whatever it is. Most people don't like the idea of death. But it's part of evolution life and death process you say. Einstein's dead and I am sure he isn't working on a theory about it. Of course even though his brain is cut up I'm pretty sure some might think he's still alive somewhere.

 

[YoursTrue]

It's frustrating to encounter on a debate site because those that have succumbed to it think it's everyone else's job to overcome their self-righteous ignorance while they tenaciously defend it. They dont converse with an ear to listen or learn, only to negate and dismiss. And it's the same people over and over.

Go figure if Einstein is still pondering over time and light, ok? Why think about what other people think. Some die young, others live a few more years. That's evolution! Some die in infancy probably never heard of Einstein, Darwin, or evolution.

 

[YoursTrue]

It's frustrating to encounter on a debate site because those that have succumbed to it think it's everyone else's job to overcome their self-righteous ignorance while they tenaciously defend it. They dont converse with an ear to listen or learn, only to negate and dismiss. And it's the same people over and over.

I suppose you believe in the theory of evolution. If you do, then death is the only outcome unless you want to say man will maybe figure a way out of it, right? No need to talk about God. Maybe an alien will land on the earth and work it out. Or like a theory goes, a pebble dropped to the earth. Anything goes almost. But then some here might believe you can ask Einstein.