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Life From Dirt?

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Meantime Einstein couldn't figure out a final message about God, he just didn't know but from what I read, he expressed his idea that there was not a God who cares. (I disagree.)
I understand to an extent how Einstein thought about religion. I don't understand his theory about mass energy equivalence and general relativity. I do remember reading that before he died he was thinking to reverse his theory, theoretically, of course. I can't find that right now, but I remember reading it some time ago.
No, he never tried to "reverse his theory". And besides that he couldn't. A theory does not belong to the person that first thought of it. His mass energy equivalence is confirmed every day. Sometimes in a very dramatic fashion:


 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
I am going to try to answer your post(s) one at a time, meaning that once after you post, because there are several thoughts that come to mind but I'd like to answer your post because I can't read and answer all posts even if I find many of them interesting and would like to say something, but time does not permit. Hmm, time, another question...not now, though.
Okay. Tomorrow then.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
I understand (I think) about the idea there is no "goal" to evolution. Except perhaps to survive? But again, a non-thinking principle like evolution obviously cannot have a goal. Although chickens lay eggs. That might be their goal, is it evolution, because evolution doesn't have a mind, or goal in mind, does it? Of course not. I have a feeling that I might hear about how chickens came about -- by evolution, of course. They do look like dinosaurs a little, maybe they are said to have evolved from dinosaurs? P.S. I don't KNOW how chickens came about --
Just saying...about the theory. I do mention gravity as an essential principle of existence as we know it. More I think about, the less I really understand about gravity except that it's a very powerful force. You may think/believe that gravity came about by -- physical (physics) means perhaps? I am not interested in Einstein's philosophical idea if I read right that he wanted to know HOW God DID IT...I do not believe like Einstein did (he isn't thinking now), even if I don't understand his theories right now. I believe there is a God who cares...and is the Giver of life in its ultimate passage. That means again that He does not form abnormalities, or defects, but allows it right now as a result of genetics.
You may make excuses for those 'believers' who belong to a church or religion but who also believe in the validity of the theory of evolution -- obviously you do not share that idea with them about any type of god these persons may think may exist, so I won't say any more about this. I'll try to remember that. If you want to question them, please do. :)
The problem is that people that belong to churches where they do not accept the fact of evolution is that they have no idea of how it works or the evidence for it. Those that do understand almost always accept it. There are a very very few Christians that consciously believe that God is a liar. You do not believe that consciously, but even though you do not understand it that is what you do. Fear is what keeps many Christians from learning because for some odd reason they think that if they do not believe that myth (which if you did understand paints God as the bad guy) that that would mean that they were not Christians. That is simply not the case.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
The problem is that people that belong to churches where they do not accept the fact of evolution is that they have no idea of how it works or the evidence for it. Those that do understand almost always accept it. There are a very very few Christians that consciously believe that God is a liar. You do not believe that consciously, but even though you do not understand it that is what you do. Fear is what keeps many Christians from learning because for some odd reason th think that if they do not believe that myth (which if you did understand paints God as the bad guy) that that would mean that they were not Christians. That is simply not the case.
That may or may not be true about those who belong to a church who may not have an idea of how evolution works. (Is supposed to work might be a better way of expressing it). Now again, not sure exactly what you mean by God being a bad person if we believe the Bible as said. I just read something where scientists figured a meteor might have hit what was known as Sodom and linked it possibly to the description in the Bible geographically at least of the destruction of the city. Meteor destroyed ancient city, likely inspired Bible tale of Sodom, study finds
Thinking about this, whatever happened, and however it happened, and whatever the biblical description is, I have two basic comments: Again (1) I wasn't there, and (2) it was said to be by those writing about the destruction in the bible that it was God's doing. I will await your comment before I go on.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
That may or may not be true about those who belong to a church who may not have an idea of how evolution works. (Is supposed to work might be a better way of expressing it). Now again, not sure exactly what you mean by God being a bad person if we believe the Bible as said. I just read something where scientists figured a meteor might have hit what was known as Sodom and linked it possibly to the description in the Bible geographically at least of the destruction of the city. Meteor destroyed ancient city, likely inspired Bible tale of Sodom, study finds
Thinking about this, whatever happened, and however it happened, and whatever the biblical description is, I have two basic comments: Again (1) I wasn't there, and (2) it was said to be by those writing about the destruction in the bible that it was God's doing. I will await your comment before I go on.
That is because you cannot allow yourself to understand it. That is from indoctrination from an early age. But we can discuss that.

If a person rights a computer program. It is a perfect program. or so he claims. Yet it has a major bug, whose fault was it? Was it the computer programmers fault or say the fault of some variable in his program?
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
That is because you cannot allow yourself to understand it. That is from indoctrination from an early age. But we can discuss that.

If a person rights a computer program. It is a perfect program. or so he claims. Yet it has a major bug, whose fault was it? Was it the computer programmers fault or say the fault of some variable in his program?
I do not say I agree with the religious ideas of some scientists who disagree with the theory of evolution. I'm not sure what you mean by indoctrination from an early age. Are you referring to me? Because if you are, I can assure you, I was not seriously indoctrinated as a young person. Once I left home and went to college and thereafter I was more or less free to examine what I wanted to, and after examining various forms of religion I came to the conclusion that there must not be a God because of all the conflicting religious views with no substantial ground as far as I could see. And from a personal viewpoint, I couldn't find Him. I won't go into that now though. So I concluded, almost like Einstein who was more philosophical than I was or am, that there is no particular God, in fact I would say I didn't believe in God, didn't believe He was 'there.' I am quite sure there are scientists who have examined the question of evolution and biology more than I have who have arrived at the concluision that there IS a Creator -- . I'll stop there for now, although you ask another question perhaps to be considered in another post.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
I do not say I agree with the religious ideas of some scientists who disagree with the theory of evolution. I'm not sure what you mean by indoctrination from an early age. Are you referring to me? Because if you are, I can assure you, I was not seriously indoctrinated as a young person. Once I left home and went to college and thereafter I was more or less free to examine what I wanted to, and after examining various forms of religion I came to the conclusion that there must not be a God because of all the conflicting religious views with no substantial ground as far as I could see. And from a personal viewpoint, I couldn't find Him. I won't go into that now though. So I concluded, almost like Einstein who was more philosophical than I was or am, that there is no particular God, in fact I would say I didn't believe in God, didn't believe He was 'there.' I am quite sure there are scientists who have examined the question of evolution and biology more than I have who have arrived at the concluision that there IS a Creator -- . I'll stop there for now, although you ask another question perhaps to be considered in another post.
There are almost no scientists that disagree with the theory of evolution. Especially when it comes to the scientists that actually understand it. It is a a small fraction of one percent. And remember in any large enough group you are going to have some people that are either mentally ill or not that bright. The do not disagree because of the science but because of their fictitious religious beliefs. And you do show all of the signs of being indoctrinated. It happened to you some time. You very often refuse to reason logically. You did so earlier today when you made the rather foolish claim that "there is no evidence that God did not create life". Have you forgotten that argument already? Did you not realize that you compared God to a green pickle in a garage? I was quite serious with that argument. It showed how poor yours was.

And you did not answer my question. Why was that? Is it because you do know that the God of Genesis is evil? If you try to claim otherwise it can be easily argued that you do not understand those myths.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
There are almost no scientists that disagree with the theory of evolution. Especially when it comes to the scientists that actually understand it. It is a a small fraction of one percent. And remember in any large enough group you are going to have some people that are either mentally ill or not that bright. The do not disagree because of the science but because of their fictitious religious beliefs. And you do show all of the signs of being indoctrinated. It happened to you some time. You very often refuse to reason logically. You did so earlier today when you made the rather foolish claim that "there is no evidence that God did not create life". Have you forgotten that argument already? Did you not realize that you compared God to a green pickle in a garage? I was quite serious with that argument. It showed how poor yours was.

And you did not answer my question. Why was that? Is it because you do know that the God of Genesis is evil? If you try to claim otherwise it can be easily argued that you do not understand those myths.
God Almighty defines evil. Not you or I.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Since you're talking about God whom you do not think exists anyway, you're the one defining him.
No, I am talking about the fictitious God of Genesis. I do not believe in God so I do not need to define him.

There are Flat Earth Christians that believe the Earth is Flat because the Bible only describes the Earth that way in word and deed. Is their God real or fictitious?
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
No, I am talking about the fictitious God of Genesis. I do not believe in God so I do not need to define him.

There are Flat Earth Christians that believe the Earth is Flat because the Bible only describes the Earth that way in word and deed. Is their God real or fictitious?
First of all, you keep calling the God you believe is fictitious as evil but give no reason for such.
Is it possible we can start there before going on to flat earth believers? (P.S. I can't account for everybody, not even you.)
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
First of all, you keep calling the God you believe is fictitious as evil but give no reason for such.
Is it possible we can start there before going on to flat earth believers? (P.S. I can't account for everybody, not even you.)
No, you are not listening. I am saying that certain versions of God are fictitious or evil. It is not my fault if some of those are your version of God. Refuting some versions of God is not refuting all versions of God. That is why I asked you about the God of the Flat Earthers. Their version of God made a Flat Earth because of what the Bible says. Why would you disagree with them? You need to see if your reasoning is consistent.

I have repeatedly told you that refuting the evil and incompetent God that creationists believe in is not refuting all versions of God It is not even refuting the Christian version of God because many Christians do not interpret the Old Testament literally. They cannot believe in an evil God.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
No, you are not listening. I am saying that certain versions of God are fictitious or evil. It is not my fault if some of those are your version of God. Refuting some versions of God is not refuting all versions of God. That is why I asked you about the God of the Flat Earthers. Their version of God made a Flat Earth because of what the Bible says. Why would you disagree with them? You need to see if your reasoning is consistent.

I have repeatedly told you that refuting the evil and incompetent God that creationists believe in is not refuting all versions of God It is not even refuting the Christian version of God because many Christians do not interpret the Old Testament literally. They cannot believe in an evil God.
What do you mean certain versions of God are fictitious or evil. I know you mentioned flat earth but personally I don't see the Bible speaks of a flat earth. I've been in discussions about this and felt that is not an interpretation that I could accept as reasonable and true. If a person wants to believe the earth is "flat," despite reason and evidence, I guess my answer now would be, have a good day.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
This is the fatal flaw of scientism. Real scientists are careful not to make this mistake, but the scientism crowd wants to believe that they have the fountain of truth within their grasp, so they refuse to accept that science is not ..
I believe in how science works. I know its limitations. I am not afflicted by scienticism. As you said, most scientists (I am not one) also are free of scienticism. The ignoramus will do what the ignoramus do. That cannot be helped.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
What do you mean certain versions of God are fictitious or evil. I know you mentioned flat earth but personally I don't see the Bible speaks of a flat earth. I've been in discussions about this and felt that is not an interpretation that I could accept as reasonable and true. If a person wants to believe the earth is "flat," despite reason and evidence, I guess my answer now would be, have a good day.
IMHO, all versions of Gods or Goddesses are fictitious, some are evil too. For example This I would definitely consider this as dictatorial and evil:

“You shall have no other gods before me. .. for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, .."
 
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Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
What do you mean certain versions of God are fictitious or evil. I know you mentioned flat earth but personally I don't see the Bible speaks of a flat earth. I've been in discussions about this and felt that is not an interpretation that I could accept as reasonable and true. If a person wants to believe the earth is "flat," despite reason and evidence, I guess my answer now would be, have a good day.
I know that you do not fully understand the Adam and Eve myth because you dodged a question that I asked in relation it it. The supposed failure of Adam and Eve was God's fault. He screwed up in his creation and then he blamed his creation. You cannot blame the victims, that is wha the did and that is an evil act. He was also incredibly incompetent in the myth.

Then there is even worse. In the Noah's Ark myth he performs mass genocide not just on people, but on all sorts of life. That was inexcusable. That is an act of an evil God. Then if you read the Exodus myth how multiple times God hardened Pharoah's heart so that he did not let Moses go so that he could kill more Egyptians with plagues. That was an act of an evil God. Then one more time, when the Hebrews were conquering Canaan he ordered genocide again. That was an act of an evil God. If it is evil when man does it it is even more evil when God does it.
 

PureX

Veteran Member
I believe in how science works. I know its limitations. I am not afflicted by scienticism. As you said, most scientists (I am not one) also are free of scienticism. The ignoramus will do what the ignoramus do. That cannot be helped.
And they will do it over and over and over, which is why they remain ignorant. Once they become certain that they are right, they can no longer learn ... only defend their righteousness.
 

gnostic

The Lost One
I'm not sure what you mean by "lifelong indoctrination." As I said, I was an honor student in high school plus a scholarship winner. National Honor Society. I did not believe in God for many years. I have also said that I believed whatever I was taught, to put it more succinctly, had no questions about it, including evolution. I just accepted it, I was not majoring in any form of science. But took college level biology. I do not remember learning about rock formations in grade school. Maybe I heard it but... didn't pay attention.

High school education don’t count much in science, even if you did win something, because they are only taught very rudimentary level.

Plus, if you did attend college, you certainly weren’t good in biology, because a lot of what you say in every thread relating to biology, you are terribly misinformed, and seemed to be based on ignorant creationist sources.

And lastly, I think are dishonest to claim that you have attended college, because you would have known that college don’t teach geology or rock formations in any biology courses.

Only palaeontology course would teach geology and biology, and very few universities would teach palaeontology.

the majority of university biology don’t teach anything about fossils, because biology courses usually teach about living species, not long extinct species.
 
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