Life From Dirt?

[Dan From Smithville]

Having pondered my original post I have concluded that life never could have came to be without divine intervention. Life from dirt? Nah.

It is unlikely that it came from dirt or soil in the first place, given that a fair amount of the composition of soil is living things or their products and that chemistry would be more difficult with soil as a medium.

 

[YoursTrue]

Having pondered my original post I have concluded that life never could have came to be without divine intervention. Life from dirt? Nah.

Glad you realize life could not have come about within divine intervention. I have come to recognize that also. Regardless of how life came from dirt, the life comes from God. As well as soil, nevertheless, life is not soil, and soil by itself does not produce life. Take for instance, seeds. When they're planted in soil and have the proper nourishment, they seed can produce leaves, stalks, etc. God gives life.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I went to public schools throughout my education. Nothing sponsored or supported by religious agenda. At the time I didn't know if God existed or not, but as I grew older I began questioning these things. I won't go into much about that now.
The first full-fledged science class I took was biology in high school, it was an exceptional high school, secular not religious, and I took chemistry after that. Did well enough, I enjoyed the biology class. I had no question about evolution at the time. When I took chemistry I wondered about how they figured protons and neutrons but didn't question it because it was not a major concern of mine. I just accepted and memorized what they taught without questioning. I qualified as a scholarship winner based on my grades. I also decided for some years as I went to college and thereafter, looking around and decided finally that there must not be a God.
Just for the record, things changed, but that's not what I'm talking about now.

You really should look into how they figured out protons and neutrons. It is rather interesting.

The question is why do you doubt evolution when it follows the same rules that allow us to communicate with each other. The scientific method works extremely well as a problem solving method. You should never believe just because people tell you. You really should try to understand how we know what we know.

As to your claim of "God gives life" no one has found any evidence that supports that yet.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I remain skeptical, but I'm glad I'm not interfering with how others engage.

I just got tired of seeing alerts come up trying to draw me in.

No need. But one thing that I do not like about the JW sect is how they poison the minds of their members. And they hate the question:

"Why do you think that God is a liar?" Whether they realize it or not they are calling their own God a liar and that is rather hypocritical.

 

[YoursTrue]

You really should look into how they figured out protons and neutrons. It is rather interesting.

The question is why do you doubt evolution when it follows the same rules that allow us to communicate with each other. The scientific method works extremely well as a problem solving method. You should never believe just because people tell you. You really should try to understand how we know what we know.

As to your claim of "God gives life" no one has found any evidence that supports that yet.

Evolution follows the same rules that allow us to communicate with each other? How?
Although I believe in a Creator, please do understand by that I mean the One we cannot see with our physical eyes who enables life from the beginning, meaning that the mechanism was enabled in the first man and woman and then the passage of human life continued. That does not mean that God makes deformities or sicknesses, but allows them due to genetics. That is not evolution, and it is not that God makes troublesome situations like that.

 

[YoursTrue]

No need. But one thing that I do not like about the JW sect is how they poison the minds of their members. And they hate the question:

"Why do you think that God is a liar?" Whether they realize it or not they are calling their own God a liar and that is rather hypocritical.

There is no need to talk about a sect. I began learning about the gaps in the theory from other sources. I basically do not need to talk abouit my belief in God or a Creator to discuss the lack of belief I have now in the theory of evolution. Sometimes it comes up, however. So if you want to continue the discussion I'd appreciate if you'd leave out a particular faith.
I know you don't believe in the Bible and so do others here unlike you though who seem to hold onto an idea of faith or religious belief. I hope you understand what I'm saying here. There are some who go to church but decry the Bible as misleading, mythical, etc. You at least do not pretend by going to church and thinking maybe there is a God.

 

[YoursTrue]

No need. But one thing that I do not like about the JW sect is how they poison the minds of their members. And they hate the question:

"Why do you think that God is a liar?" Whether they realize it or not they are calling their own God a liar and that is rather hypocritical.

I have already said that I can't explain everything in the Bible. I might ask you to ask that of those who claim to go to church and/or believe something about God via something they like about the Bible as a basis for their church belief. But since the door has been closed by some who would rather not answer I can only realize what is apparent but rather not say.

 

[YoursTrue]

You really should look into how they figured out protons and neutrons. It is rather interesting.

The question is why do you doubt evolution when it follows the same rules that allow us to communicate with each other. The scientific method works extremely well as a problem solving method. You should never believe just because people tell you. You really should try to understand how we know what we know.

As to your claim of "God gives life" no one has found any evidence that supports that yet.

I might say that no one has found evidence that God does not give life. Life is different than soil. I have read posits as to how life may have started on the earth but surely you cannot agree that any human knows.

 

[YoursTrue]

You really should look into how they figured out protons and neutrons. It is rather interesting
The question is why do you doubt evolution when it follows the same rules that allow us to communicate with each other. The scientific method works extremely well as a problem solving method. You should never believe just because people tell you. You really should try to understand how we know what we know.

As to your claim of "God gives life" no one has found any evidence that supports that yet.

It might be interesting to figure how they figured protons and neutrons, but that would lead to more questions. And again -- while I'm not an expert, I'm pretty sure no scientist has the answer to figure how these atoms came about except by -- ?? magic?? magnetism?? maybe?? Perhaps you know that scientists have found precisely how atomic structure came to be. And from where...

 

[Subduction Zone]

Evolution follows the same rules that allow us to communicate with each other? How?
Although I believe in a Creator, please do understand by that I mean the One we cannot see with our physical eyes who enables life from the beginning, meaning that the mechanism was enabled in the first man and woman and then the passage of human life continued. That does not mean that God makes deformities or sicknesses, but allows them due to genetics. That is not evolution, and it is not that God makes troublesome situations like that.

That is not what I said. The devices that you use to communicate here were made from information generated by the scientific method. Our understanding of the fact of evolution was generated by applying the scientific method. How does one justify accepting the scientific method for some things but not others?

And believing in a creator is fine. But you believe in a lying creator, even if you do not realize it. That is why most Christians accept the fact of evolution. They can see that God is not a liar. Did God make the Earth according to you? I would be pretty sure that you will say yes. All of the evidence within the Earth tells us that life arose through evolution. You are suggesting that God planted endless false evidence. That would make God a liar.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I might say that no one has found evidence that God does not give life. Life is different than soil. I have read posits as to how life may have started on the earth but surely you cannot agree that any human knows.

That is not the way that it works. No one has found any evidence that the green pickle buried somewhere in my garage does not give life either. Does that make it reasonable to believe that my green pickle created life?

It is up to those that believe that God created life to show that he did so. If you cannot do that you have just equated your God to my green pickle buried in my garage.

 

[Valjean]

Glad you realize life could not have come about within divine intervention. I have come to recognize that also. Regardless of how life came from dirt, the life comes from God. As well as soil, nevertheless, life is not soil, and soil by itself does not produce life. Take for instance, seeds. When they're planted in soil and have the proper nourishment, they seed can produce leaves, stalks, etc. God gives life.

But why do you believe life comes from God? What empirical evidence do you have for this? All I see are arguments from personal incredulity, ad pops, and appeals to tradition.
Why do you find chemistry insufficient, yet magic poofing convincing? How is magic a reasonable argument for anything?

 

[Subduction Zone]

There is no need to talk about a sect. I began learning about the gaps in the theory from other sources. I basically do not need to talk abouit my belief in God or a Creator to discuss the lack of belief I have now in the theory of evolution. Sometimes it comes up, however. So if you want to continue the discussion I'd appreciate if you'd leave out a particular faith.
I know you don't believe in the Bible and so do others here unlike you though who seem to hold onto an idea of faith or religious belief. I hope you understand what I'm saying here. There are some who go to church but decry the Bible as misleading, mythical, etc. You at least do not pretend by going to church and thinking maybe there is a God.

Yet you could not find any "gaps" in the theory.

Here is the first thing that you need to do if you want to find a "gap". First you must describe your supposed gap and why it is a gap. A jump in time between fossils is not a gap since that was predicted by Darwin a long long time ago. A gap has to be something that the theory cannot explain.

 

[YoursTrue]

That is not what I said. The devices that you use to communicate here were made from information generated by the scientific method. Our understanding of the fact of evolution was generated by applying the scientific method. How does one justify accepting the scientific method for some things but not others?

And believing in a creator is fine. But you believe in a lying creator, even if you do not realize it. That is why most Christians accept the fact of evolution. They can see that God is not a liar. Did God make the Earth according to you? I would be pretty sure that you will say yes. All of the evidence within the Earth tells us that life arose through evolution. You are suggesting that God planted endless false evidence. That would make God a liar.

Oh, ok. That's kind of what I thought you meant about communication . But again, and yes, I'm going to stick to this point -- gorillas and chimpanzees are still around yet have not invented this type of communication. I'll try to go into the rest of your post about your idea that God is a liar another time perhaps, but realize that I (1) was not there at the time of writing, and (2) cannot explain everything in the Bible anyway. I do believe, however, that the universe did not come about from a big bang, etc. That is my belief and to think otherwise that maybe it did come about from something that was there before but exploded is not something I will consider as a reasonable theory from what you consider as science. Maybe it is science, I do not ascribe to those ideas about the universe and the earth forming by -- scientific rules alone. Because -- it doesn't make sense.

 

[Subduction Zone]

It might be interesting to figure how they figured protons and neutrons, but that would lead to more questions. And again -- while I'm not an expert, I'm pretty sure no scientist has the answer to figure how these atoms came about except by -- ?? magic?? magnetism?? maybe?? Perhaps you know that scientists have found precisely how atomic structure came to be. And from where...

You would be wrong. They have gone beyond protons and neutrons and they can show that mass comes from energy. Have you forgotten that Einstein was the first to show a mass energy equivalence with his general relativity?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Oh, ok. That's kind of what I thought you meant about communication . But again, and yes, I'm going to stick to this point -- gorillas and chimpanzees are still around yet have not invented this type of communication. I'll try to go into the rest of your post about your idea that God is a liar another time perhaps, but realize that I (1) was not there at the time of writing, and (2) cannot explain everything in the Bible anyway. I do believe, however, that the universe did not come about from a big bang, etc. That is my belief and to think otherwise that maybe it did come about from something that was there before but exploded is not something I will consider as a reasonable theory from what you consider as science. Maybe it is science, I do not ascribe to those ideas about the universe and the earth forming by -- scientific rules alone. Because -- it doesn't make sense.

So what? Now you are making the mistake of thinking that there is a goal to evolution. There is not.

The worst of arguments, as you just made, can be refuted by a simple "So what?"

And it is not my idea that God is a liar. It is yours. You are the one that keeps claiming that he is a liar. I say that if he exist he is not a liar. That means that you cannot read Genesis literally. To do so is to call God a liar.

That you do not understand this is your problem, not mine.

And what do you mean that it does not make sense that the Earth could form on its own? Haven't you heard of gravity?

 

[Valjean]

I might say that no one has found evidence that God does not give life.

Are you arguing from ignorance? Argument from Ignorance

Life is different than soil. I have read posits as to how life may have started on the earth but surely you cannot agree that any human knows.

What is special about life? Is there something magical or extraordinary about it? What makes you think it's not just a self-sustaining, emergent quality of certain chemical configurations and conditions, like fire, for instance?

 

[YoursTrue]

You would be wrong. They have gone beyond protons and neutrons and they can show that mass comes from energy. Have you forgotten that Einstein was the first to show a mass energy equivalence with his general relativity?

Meantime Einstein couldn't figure out a final message about God, he just didn't know but from what I read, he expressed his idea that there was not a God who cares. (I disagree.)
I understand to an extent how Einstein thought about religion. I don't understand his theory about mass energy equivalence and general relativity. I do remember reading that before he died he was thinking to reverse his theory, theoretically, of course. I can't find that right now, but I remember reading it some time ago.

 

[YoursTrue]

So what? Now you are making the mistake of thinking that there is a goal to evolution. There is not.

The worst of arguments, as you just made, can be refuted by a simple "So what?"

And it is not my idea that God is a liar. It is yours. You are the one that keeps claiming that he is a liar. I say that if he exist he is not a liar. That means that you cannot read Genesis literally. To do so is to call God a liar.

That you do not understand this is your problem, not mine.

And what do you mean that it does not make sense that the Earth could form on its own? Haven't you heard of gravity?

I understand (I think) about the idea there is no "goal" to evolution. Except perhaps to survive? But again, a non-thinking principle like evolution obviously cannot have a goal. Although chickens lay eggs. That might be their goal, is it evolution, because evolution doesn't have a mind, or goal in mind, does it? Of course not. I have a feeling that I might hear about how chickens came about -- by evolution, of course. They do look like dinosaurs a little, maybe they are said to have evolved from dinosaurs? P.S. I don't KNOW how chickens came about --
Just saying...about the theory. I do mention gravity as an essential principle of existence as we know it. More I think about, the less I really understand about gravity except that it's a very powerful force. You may think/believe that gravity came about by -- physical (physics) means perhaps? I am not interested in Einstein's philosophical idea if I read right that he wanted to know HOW God DID IT...I do not believe like Einstein did (he isn't thinking now), even if I don't understand his theories right now. I believe there is a God who cares...and is the Giver of life in its ultimate passage. That means again that He does not form abnormalities, or defects, but allows it right now as a result of genetics.
You may make excuses for those 'believers' who belong to a church or religion but who also believe in the validity of the theory of evolution -- obviously you do not share that idea with them about any type of god these persons may think may exist, so I won't say any more about this. I'll try to remember that. If you want to question them, please do.

 

[YoursTrue]

So what? Now you are making the mistake of thinking that there is a goal to evolution. There is not.

The worst of arguments, as you just made, can be refuted by a simple "So what?"

And it is not my idea that God is a liar. It is yours. You are the one that keeps claiming that he is a liar. I say that if he exist he is not a liar. That means that you cannot read Genesis literally. To do so is to call God a liar.

That you do not understand this is your problem, not mine.

And what do you mean that it does not make sense that the Earth could form on its own? Haven't you heard of gravity?

I am going to try to answer your post(s) one at a time, meaning that once after you post, because there are several thoughts that come to mind but I'd like to answer your post because I can't read and answer all posts even if I find many of them interesting and would like to say something, but time does not permit. Hmm, time, another question...not now, though.