Little confused...Are Jews allowed to drink alcohol or is it a sin?

[MyM]

Alcohol in moderation does not "damage the mind" - or not any more than countless other activities (video games, pornography, not getting enough sleep, listening to speeches by Trump......) Please do not conflate drinking alcohol with drinking too much.

As many people have pointed out on this thread, alcohol is permitted in both Christianity and Judaism. Wine indeed has a central place in Christian worship - and has been part of the culture of Europe and the Mediterranean, where both religions arose, for millennia. So it is Islam that is the odd one out here. Perhaps it is not so surprising, since you can't grow grapes in the Arabian desert and in that climate alcohol is actually quite bad for you (I lived in the Persian Gulf for some years .)

In fact, according to my understanding, the Koran doesn't actually forbid all alcohol explicitly: it just forbids anything that "clouds the mind". Or so I was told once, by a Jordanian, over a beer in Amman. So, he said, if you don't allow your mind to be clouded, there is not really an issue. (There is, or was, a brewery in Amman.) Perhaps you can tell me if he was correct or not.

Actually, even drinking small amounts according to many surveys online, says that drinking even in moderation decreases brain volume. Any significant loss of brain tissue will reduce the brain’s ability to function at an optimal level.

Can alcohol mess up your mind?
Even in the short term, alcohol affects areas of the brain controlling cognitive and motor functions, causing them to slow down. Alcohol impairs memory, judgment, and coordination and disrupts sleep patterns. When used long-term, alcohol may cause permanent brain damage.

 

[kaninchen]

When used long-term, alcohol may cause permanent brain damage.

Bit like coffee then, apparently.

 

[Wandering Monk]

In Leviticus 14, God expressly PERMITS fermented drinks as part of celebration:

24 But if that place is too distant and you have been blessed by the Lord your God and cannot carry your tithe (because the place where the Lord will choose to put his Name is so far away), 25 then exchange your tithe for silver, and take the silver with you and go to the place the Lord your God will choose. 26 Use the silver to buy whatever you like: cattle, sheep, wine or other fermented drink, or anything you wish. Then you and your household shall eat there in the presence of the Lord your God and rejoice.

 

[Clara Tea]

I just assumed since I grew up a Christian and in that faith I grew up in I was taught alcohol was forbidden. Also in Islam, alcohol is forbidden. I just assumed it was forbidden. That is why I was taken back a bit. In Islam, what intoxicates you in big quantities is forbidden even in small quantities.

Wow what a story...to actually get drunk to the point of almost unawareness. That's just weird to me because when alcohol is involved, no one can tell what kind of effect it can have on one's mind and body if crossed the line...just like that rabbi that killed the rabbi...you get drunk to "remember" what happened? To me that is just a bit strange.

I just never knew this.

When President W. Bush was intoxicated (as he commonly was), were his morals high?

I read that the decision to declare war on Iraq was made by three intoxicated people....Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, and W. Bush. If he drank too much, he might try to drink Rumsfeld.

Strange but True: The Largest Organism on Earth Is a Fungus

Lets not tell these guys that Oregon has a 2,384 acre mushroom (source above), because they might try to smoke it to get high.

President W. Bush said that Reverend Billy Graham helped him to quit alcohol with prayer and solitude on his ranch in Texas. Was W. Bush intoxicated and trying to sober up when he stayed on his ranch and refused to help with the aftermath of hurricane Katrina? Once a drunk, it is very difficult for people to quit, and many times they start drinking (or drugging) again.

 

[Clara Tea]

It's not all of the men that wear black and white clothing. Just the majority of the Ultra Orthodox, also called Charedim. Why? The main emphasis is the black, because it reflects modesty, symbolizes mourning over the destruction of the Temple, as well as a few other reasons. White might symbolize other things, but I think it mostly became fashionable because it was thought to go better with black.
The side curls are grown by all Orthodox Jews, at varying lengths. This is because there is a Torah prohibition of cutting off that hair. Interestingly, part of the reasoning may have been because the Arab neighbors of the Israelites had a custom to shave off that part of their hair, as attested by multiple sources.

That explains why you don't see many rabbis or hares at Clippers games.

 

[Clara Tea]

lol ok am interested, what is kippot?

Yarmulke (Yiddish....high German) and Kippah or kippot (Hebrew) are the same. They are beanie caps, often required at celebrations (bar mitzvahs, weddings, etc).

Jews are required, by God, to be peaceful. They are also required to not work on the Sabbath. Forced by terrorism and war to fight, and often attacked on the Sabbath because their enemies know that they must not defend themselves, they have strayed from the path that God has set for them. They are forced to fight or die. Much of what Jews do is because they have no alternative. Krav Maga is a Jewish martial art developed by the IDF (I call it Jewdo).

Why can't the world let peaceful people live in peace?

 

[Clara Tea]

Some Jews and Christians are teatotal, some are not.
It is not a religious thing.

Some denominations have been teatotal since their foundation. But it is not a requirement of Christianity, nor for Jews.

The English are almost addicted to tea around 3PM to 4PM. It is a ceremony (place napkin on lap, stir gently, sip, don't gulp, crook pinkie). It is a ceremony of a civilized country that used uncivilized means to capture and enslave the world. It is an example of excessive focusing on trivia and ignoring the big picture. Religion is much like that....we wonder about bible trivia while ignoring the immorality of defying God.

 

[Clara Tea]

Hebrew for yarmulke (Yiddish) aka skull cap.

Your Lincoln quotation was in preparation of the world's most deadly war. Remember...."thou shalt not kill."

 

[Clara Tea]

oh I hated that film!! Made me wanna jump through the screen and beat the crap out of those people!

Theater manager....We've got to repair the screen again.

 

[Clara Tea]

Actually, even drinking small amounts according to many surveys online, says that drinking even in moderation decreases brain volume. Any significant loss of brain tissue will reduce the brain’s ability to function at an optimal level.

Can alcohol mess up your mind?
Even in the short term, alcohol affects areas of the brain controlling cognitive and motor functions, causing them to slow down. Alcohol impairs memory, judgment, and coordination and disrupts sleep patterns. When used long-term, alcohol may cause permanent brain damage.

Alcohol can prevent some heart attacks and strokes, and those could impair brain function even more so.

It is common, in France, for the family to have glasses of wine (even for kids). There, alcoholism isn't common, because they drink with meals and in moderation.

 

[Clara Tea]

You mean it doesn't represent all Islam? I can't learn about an entire religion by watching a movie?

Faster than going to church. I wonder if they serve popcorn?

 

[Clara Tea]

Yes, it is forbidden. Verses before the prohibition are there as well But it is indeed prohibited.

There are three types of alcohol that jurists have determined.

1. Drinkable alcohol that is obtained from fruit, sugarcane, and grains such as whiskey, liquor, vodka, beer, and so forth.
2. Rubbing alcohol such as ethyl alcohol in high percentages aka ethanol and isopropyl alcohol used for pharmaceutical and medical purposes
3. Industrial alcohol such as methyl alcohol aka methanol

Drinking all three kinds of alcohol, no matter what their percentage is, is religiously unlawful (ḥarām) in Islam, whether it intoxicates or does not, or is pure or impure. Allah says that the alcohol that people drink and causes intoxication is rijs (رِجس) meaning it is impure (نَجِس). In Islam, eating or drinking anything that is impure is religiously unlawful. For example, one cannot drink the blood of animals, even if their meat is halal. Therefore, alcohol, which is also impure, is forbidden to drink.

Allah has from the very beginning said that consumption of intoxicants such as alcohol is a sin, although it might have some benefits, yet its sin and harms outweigh its benefits. In the final verse that was revealed about alcohol in Quran, Allah categorically and emphatically prohibits the use of alcohol and states that it is the action of Satan.

Yes, it is very hot here in UAE.

Camel caravans often cut a camel vein to get blood to consume. They are not Islamic?

 

[Clara Tea]

Its Shtisel.. not Shnitzel (lol). (Shnitzel is a type of food).
And yes, not only Jews are allowed alcohol, but it is also a "Mitzvah" to drink on some occasions (Blessing of the Sabbath, Passover, Purim, and more).

You mean I just made a pile of hot dogs to worship for nothing? You have no idea of the suffering that's I've had in this new religion....dogs following me around for blocks....etc.

 

[Clara Tea]

Alcohol in moderation does not "damage the mind" - or not any more than countless other activities (video games, pornography, not getting enough sleep, listening to speeches by Trump......) Please do not conflate drinking alcohol with drinking too much.

As many people have pointed out on this thread, alcohol is permitted in both Christianity and Judaism. Wine indeed has a central place in Christian worship - and has been part of the culture of Europe and the Mediterranean, where both religions arose, for millennia. So it is Islam that is the odd one out here. Perhaps it is not so surprising, since you can't grow grapes in the Arabian desert and in that climate alcohol is actually quite bad for you (I lived in the Persian Gulf for some years .)

In fact, according to my understanding, the Koran doesn't actually forbid all alcohol explicitly: it just forbids anything that "clouds the mind". Or so I was told once, by a Jordanian, over a beer in Amman. So, he said, if you don't allow your mind to be clouded, there is not really an issue. (There is, or was, a brewery in Amman.) Perhaps you can tell me if he was correct or not.

The more they drink, the more they see God (riding a pink elephant). Writing a book....apostle elephant.

 

[RabbiO]

@MyM -

On this, and many other forums, Muslims often decry what they perceive to be the misunderstandings, misperceptions, erroneous statements about Islam and Muslims made by non-Muslims, usually out of ignorance.

Fair enough, however this doesn’t stop Muslims - and other non-Jews - from making negative statements about Jews and Judaism when those making those statements, when questioned, reveal their almost total ignorance of Jews and Judaism.

I don’t believe that I or @Harel13 or @rosends or @Flankerl or anyother Jew on the forum has a problem answering questions honestly asked. It’s just hard sometimes to respond to a question or a statement that is premised on an erroneous perception.

Understanding that we may often disagree I hope that a civil, nonjudgmental dialogue is possible.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

can i ask another question. I also saw another Jewish program where a girl was getting ready for marriage. I can't remember the name of it. But I do think it is on netflix as well. Ugh can't remember. But she was a lovely girl and learning about marriage n all. Her mother was I think German and she "escaped" or somethin...can't exactly remember. But anyways, I was wondering why before she got married, they shaved her head and then applied a wig?

I just googled it and it is called UNORTHODOX

As Harel already mentioned that is the practice of particular groups of European Jews. It is not a practice held by Middle Eastern, African, or Asian Jewish communities.

The following videos may help with some insight on other Jewish communities.

The Spielberg Jewish Film Archive - Music of Yemenite Jews

The Spielberg Jewish Film Archive - Music of Morrocan Jews

The Spielberg Jewish Film Archive - Music of Sephardic Jews

 

[Ehav4Ever]

I didn't know it was allowed in the Jewish religion. Can someone explain please?

Okay. So it works like this.

All things that Torah based Jews do or don't do starts from the Hebrew Torah. This is the foundation of where all Torath Mosheh and Orthodox Judaism begins. The reason is that:

1. The Torah is product of the mass revalation that the Israeli people had at Mount from Hashem, and...
2. After the above mentioned mass revelation at Mount Sinai, the oral and written Torah were dictated and directed from Hashem to Mosheh ben-Amram (Moses) who then transcribed the written text that was shown to him and taught/instructed the Israeli people concerning the oral Torah. (The statement Torah describing the Hebrew written Torah and the oral Torah which details how to do what is in the written text.)

With that being said, the commands that Hashem gave to the Israeli/Jewish people are called Mitzvoth (מצוות), as well as some other titles but let's stick to this one, and there are 613 mitzvoth that are the foundation for Israel/Jews as a nation, communities within that nation, families, individuals, and even non-Jews who live within a Torah based nation. There are two types of Mitzvoth (תעשה) "things that are to be done" and (לא תעשה) "things not to be done."

Important points:

1. There are some mitzvoth that are requirements for the entire Israeli nation. (Men, women, and children)
2. There are some mitzvoth that are requirements for the leaders of the Israeli nation.
3. There are some mitzvoth that are requirements which are specific to Israelis/Jews who come from certain types of families. (Kohen family, Levi family, etc.)
4. There are some mitzvoth that are requirements which are specific to men and some that are specific to women.

That all being said, when Hashem gave the Torah there were no explicit prohibitions against the consumption of alchohol for the average ordinary Israeli/Jewish person/citizen. YET, the Torah was not given as a straight forward western style history text. Each, story, word, sentence, command, etc. is considered to have reasons beyond just the plain sense thus it is known to have a developmental purpose behind what an Israeli/Jew is supposed to study, learn, consider, and form conclusions on for the sake of national, communal, and personal development.

For example, in the Torah Israelis who come from families (Kohen/Cohen) that descend from Aharon (Aaron) the brother of Mosheh (Moses) have a certain leadership responsibility which includes various shifts of working in the Temple, when it was standing and active in Jerusalem and before that when it was a portable structure. While working in the Temple it was/will be forbidden for them to perform their duties either drunk, or having consumed a certain level of alchohol or wine. Obviously, since what they are doing is work and they are leaders in the Israeli nation thus they can't be on the job being affected by alchohol.

By like token, any leader of the Israeli/Jewish people is required to not be under the influence of alchohol when they are performing duties of leadership.

By additional like token, there is a concept from the Torah based on both the story of Noach and other situations in Jewish history where excessive amounts of alchohol are considered to have allowed for particular individuals to loosen or do away with their better judgement and then they swayed themselves in the wrong direction.

All of that being stated, there is a mitzvah in the Torah for Jews to do the mitzvoth of the Torah with joy and happiness. For example, the Shabbat (Sabbath), Pesahh (Passover), etc. are all times when Jews are commanded to have joy and happiness. One of the understandings is that the proper amounts of food, community and family togetherness, and wine are a part of this. Yet, I stress everything in life has a proper place and a proper amount. For example, there are some rabbis in Jewish history who have stated that excessive amounts of food is not good and therefore a Jew who is working to keep the Torah correctly would not be served well to eat excessive amounts of food. There are also some rabbis who have stated that doing things that are known to be dangerous or have a high unnecessary risk behind them should also not be done. The same is applied to wine and alchohol.

For example, Jewish men have a requirement to come together in groups of ten or more men and pray three times a day. It is forbidden for a Jewish man to pray after having consumed a certain amount of wine or alchohol. He must wait until the effects wear off and he has rested then he can pray.

Further, because every Jewish man is considered to be the rabbi of his household he has to further consider all of his actions as a "leader" of his household. Additionally, a Torah based Jewish man or woman when outside of their home is considered to be an example of the Torah that they have learned/received from previous generations so there is a level of responsibility that is considered to come along with that and also the understanding that there is a danger posed to all Jews if the outside world will judge us based upon the missteps we make, for whatever reasons we make them.

Thus, there are a number of leaders of the Jewish people who have taught modesty in all things that a Jew does, in all sectors. So, if I need to speak to someone there is a modest Torah based way for me to do it. If I need to correct my children, there is a modest Torah based way for me to do it. If there is a happy Torah based event where there is wine being served, there is a modest Torah based way for me enjoy and have happiness.

The outlook is that everything that exists in reality is good and has a purpose - that purpose being potentially:

• Using it correctly.
• Using it at a controlled amount.
• Using it only in certain circumstances.
• Using it in limited locations and particular times.
• Using it during quiet times when there is room to relax and rest.
• Knowing one's personal limits and not going beyond that limit.
• Lastly, not using it all. (An example of this is that there are dangerous animals that have a good environmental purpose - but I would not play with them, take them as pets, or go near them. I respect the purpose in the world from a distance.)

All of the above issues have been discussed, debated, established, considered, and put into practice for thousands of years among Torah based Jews. So, I hope that this helps in understanding.

 

[MyM]

Camel caravans often cut a camel vein to get blood to consume. They are not Islamic?

Consuming blood is forbidden. Allah says in Sura Ma'ida 5:3 The blood is considered najis (impure).

Prohibited to you are dead animals, blood, the flesh of swine, and that which has been dedicated to other than Allah , and [those animals] killed by strangling or by a violent blow or by a head-long fall or by the goring of horns, and those from which a wild animal has eaten, except what you [are able to] slaughter [before its death], and those which are sacrificed on stone altars, and [prohibited is] that you seek decision through divining arrows. That is grave disobedience. This day those who disbelieve have despaired of [defeating] your religion; so fear them not, but fear Me. This day I have perfected for you your religion and completed My favor upon you and have approved for you Islam as religion. But whoever is forced by severe hunger with no inclination to sin - then indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.

(sorry for the big print I can't seem to get it smaller)

 

[MyM]

Okay. So it works like this.

All things that Torah based Jews do or don't do starts from the Hebrew Torah. This is the foundation of where all Torath Mosheh and Orthodox Judaism begins. The reason is that:

1. The Torah is product of the mass revalation that the Israeli people had at Mount from Hashem, and...
2. After the above mentioned mass revelation at Mount Sinai, the oral and written Torah were dictated and directed from Hashem to Mosheh ben-Amram (Moses) who then transcribed the written text that was shown to him and taught/instructed the Israeli people concerning the oral Torah. (The statement Torah describing the Hebrew written Torah and the oral Torah which details how to do what is in the written text.)

View attachment 61149

With that being said, the commands that Hashem gave to the Israeli/Jewish people are called Mitzvoth (מצוות), as well as some other titles but let's stick to this one, and there are 613 mitzvoth that are the foundation for Israel/Jews as a nation, communities within that nation, families, individuals, and even non-Jews who live within a Torah based nation. There are two types of Mitzvoth (תעשה) "things that are to be done" and (לא תעשה) "things not to be done."

Important points:

1. There are some mitzvoth that are requirements for the entire Israeli nation. (Men, women, and children)
2. There are some mitzvoth that are requirements for the leaders of the Israeli nation.
3. There are some mitzvoth that are requirements which are specific to Israelis/Jews who come from certain types of families. (Kohen family, Levi family, etc.)
4. There are some mitzvoth that are requirements which are specific to men and some that are specific to women.

That all being said, when Hashem gave the Torah there were no explicit prohibitions against the consumption of alchohol for the average ordinary Israeli/Jewish person/citizen. YET, the Torah was not given as a straight forward western style history text. Each, story, word, sentence, command, etc. is considered to have reasons beyond just the plain sense thus it is known to have a developmental purpose behind what an Israeli/Jew is supposed to study, learn, consider, and form conclusions on for the sake of national, communal, and personal development.

For example, in the Torah Israelis who come from families (Kohen/Cohen) that descend from Aharon (Aaron) the brother of Mosheh (Moses) have a certain leadership responsibility which includes various shifts of working in the Temple, when it was standing and active in Jerusalem and before that when it was a portable structure. While working in the Temple it was/will be forbidden for them to perform their duties either drunk, or having consumed a certain level of alchohol or wine. Obviously, since what they are doing is work and they are leaders in the Israeli nation thus they can't be on the job being affected by alchohol.

By like token, any leader of the Israeli/Jewish people is required to not be under the influence of alchohol when they are performing duties of leadership.

By additional like token, there is a concept from the Torah based on both the story of Noach and other situations in Jewish history where excessive amounts of alchohol are considered to have allowed for particular individuals to loosen or do away with their better judgement and then they swayed themselves in the wrong direction.

All of that being stated, there is a mitzvah in the Torah for Jews to do the mitzvoth of the Torah with joy and happiness. For example, the Shabbat (Sabbath), Pesahh (Passover), etc. are all times when Jews are commanded to have joy and happiness. One of the understandings is that the proper amounts of food, community and family togetherness, and wine are a part of this. Yet, I stress everything in life has a proper place and a proper amount. For example, there are some rabbis in Jewish history who have stated that excessive amounts of food is not good and therefore a Jew who is working to keep the Torah correctly would not be served well to eat excessive amounts of food. There are also some rabbis who have stated that doing things that are known to be dangerous or have a high unnecessary risk behind them should also not be done. The same is applied to wine and alchohol.

For example, Jewish men have a requirement to come together in groups of ten or more men and pray three times a day. It is forbidden for a Jewish man to pray after having consumed a certain amount of wine or alchohol. He must wait until the effects wear off and he has rested then he can pray.

Further, because every Jewish man is considered to be the rabbi of his household he has to further consider all of his actions as a "leader" of his household. Additionally, a Torah based Jewish man or woman when outside of their home is considered to be an example of the Torah that they have learned/received from previous generations so there is a level of responsibility that is considered to come along with that and also the understanding that there is a danger posed to all Jews if the outside world will judge us based upon the missteps we make, for whatever reasons we make them.

Thus, there are a number of leaders of the Jewish people who have taught modesty in all things that a Jew does, in all sectors. So, if I need to speak to someone there is a modest Torah based way for me to do it. If I need to correct my children, there is a modest Torah based way for me to do it. If there is a happy Torah based event where there is wine being served, there is a modest Torah based way for me enjoy and have happiness.

The outlook is that everything that exists in reality is good and has a purpose - that purpose being potentially:

• Using it correctly.
• Using it at a controlled amount.
• Using it only in certain circumstances.
• Using it in limited locations and particular times.
• Using it during quiet times when there is room to relax and rest.
• Knowing one's personal limits and not going beyond that limit.
• Lastly, not using it all. (An example of this is that there are dangerous animals that have a good environmental purpose - but I would not play with them, take them as pets, or go near them. I respect the purpose in the world from a distance.)

All of the above issues have been discussed, debated, established, considered, and put into practice for thousands of years among Torah based Jews. So, I hope that this helps in understanding.

View attachment 61151

Thank you for your explanation. I do have a question for you. When you say handed down or learned by previous generations, does this mean that they are constantly revising according to times? Do you believe that the first five books in the Bible as the Torah or translated words of man?

 

[MyM]

@MyM -

On this, and many other forums, Muslims often decry what they perceive to be the misunderstandings, misperceptions, erroneous statements about Islam and Muslims made by non-Muslims, usually out of ignorance.

Fair enough, however this doesn’t stop Muslims - and other non-Jews - from making negative statements about Jews and Judaism when those making those statements, when questioned, reveal their almost total ignorance of Jews and Judaism.

I don’t believe that I or @Harel13 or @rosends or @Flankerl or anyother Jew on the forum has a problem answering questions honestly asked. It’s just hard sometimes to respond to a question or a statement that is premised on an erroneous perception.

Understanding that we may often disagree I hope that a civil, nonjudgmental dialogue is possible.

I totally understand that! When one is accused or presumes or assumes before the answer is established, or out of ignorance (not in a derogatory sense) but in a decent dialogue, people get agitated and start to criticize if it "sounds" offensive. I am truly trying to understand more about the Judaism of then and now. People do judge before they understand but taken that astride, I just wish people would understand the oneness of Allah. I really want to understand. I talked with rabbis before, Jewish people, Zionist people. Many have their own take on Judaism. But the main core is ONE GOD. Which is awesome in my eyes. Just want to understand why people cannot understand the concepts of Allah when the revelations are from Him. People end up changing them to their own liking and then everythin goes downhill from there and confusion sets in and then divisions are made and then more and more people go away from God. kinda sucks tbh.