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Losing my atheism (my new spiritual journey)

ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
I'd just like to point something out, emphasis mine:

I am very careful not to label people. I actually said "It is probably down to the small man syndrome that many suffer with."
Then, merely two paragraphs later:

I do treat them as though they are human, however, they are not unique. They are like a flock of sheep, following each other around, all bleating at the same time. They form clicks and will even lie to back up a fellow fraternity member in order to win a shallow point. I have been on these forums for years. My appraisal on the anti-atheists is based on thousands of posts and numerous debates with them. I am seasoned in their MO and tactics and have fallen into their cunningly laid traps. The anti-atheists is always, without exception, best avoided and ignored. There is absolutely nothing, but nothing, that you can tell them, and don't be taken in by the duplicitous charade that they are interested in why you believe what you believe. It is not true. It is a ploy to disarm you so as to make the kill easier by getting you to commit harry carry when you shot yourself in the foot.
Your hypocrisy is duly noted, and I am pleased that you added that disclaimer, gracefully telling JoStories that she doesn't have to take anything you say as being true.
 

suncowiam

Well-Known Member
I didn't claim it does. I stated we do not know. There may be, there may not be. Even the Big Bang, how we think the universe was created, is becoming increasingly challenged.
It's really nothing more than intellectual folly to even be concerned about if there is or isn't, because we don't even know what the universe is.

I personally don't claim the big bang is valid or not even though I'm an Atheist.

The original point is that if one wants to suggest such and such, then it should be easily proven. What stops someone like Ron L Hubbard from creating his own religion when his foundation is based on fiction? He basically turned a self-help book into a religion.

There is a fine line between a religion and a cult. Just the very old religions have been around for so long that we view this as normal. But then, what is the difference between Scientology and say any of our long standing religions? All theists have, is faith and conjecture. The more traditional theists also have heresay. There is no concrete evidence to support a theist's claim.
 

suncowiam

Well-Known Member
My apologies for the unclear reply.

My first objection serves essentially to challenge the starting assumption that God is a personal being rather than viewing God simply as an idea or symbol.

My second and third objections extend from the first. If Santa Claus is a symbol, doesn't it make denying the existence thereof kinda self-refuting? Are symbols any less real than material entities?

Then what about God?

I personally don't mind classifying God as a symbol. God and derivatives like religion and Jesus Christ are all abstract notions. That's why everyone has a different definition of their God and religion.

However, the problem kicks in when people take the word of god literally. People are being murdered and discriminated due to these interprations. Murder might seem harsh here but I honestly don't think I'm being harsh. There are conservative religions and then there are extremists radicals. I would not dare be in the same room speaking my mind honestly with these radicals. I truly believe my life would be in danger if I spoke freely.

Creationism is the literal translation of the Christian bible. People actually want to teach others that the world only started existing 6000 years ago.

There is very little consistency with religion. It is arbitrary except in the foundation of faith. Everything else is personally defined by the individual.
 

Serenity7855

Lambaster of the Angry Anti-Theists
I've no clue if you are male or female and frankly, it doesn't matter to me.

It does not matter to me either. The point I was making is that it is irrelevant as none of us know what gender the other is.

I, too, have been a part,or places like this since the early 90's. Chat rooms, message boards and forums alike. I, too, have been attacked for many things.

I am sure that you have. I was not competing with you. I was merely saying that in my experience, anti-atheists, who are here to argue rather then debate, are not worth entertaining. There can be no benefit to me and I am certainly not going to provide the entertainment for Anti-atheists

One woman connived my phone number out of me...I was an idiot Schmuck".... And she called ten times a day to 'convert' me.

Yes, I have made a very similar mistake as well. I am not an evangelist though. I do not proselytise anymore as I believe that is now flogging dead horses. I care little if you do not accept the gospel, it is your choice, but I will help you if you want to know more. The world has changed and is now ripe with evil, Satan has become the God of this temporal world we live in and man have hardened their hearts to God. So, are you an atheist then?

I do act in the manner I always have...me. I am no different IRL than I am here.

If you are an atheists and this is as you say it, then you are the exception to the rule. I have made it clear that not all atheists here are as I described.

Now, I may very well be reading something into this that is not intended but I am reading that you have walls up the size of those in China.

That is not the case. I will debate anybody with equal gusto, however, I am not going to allow my integrity to be tarnished by a vicious and vacuous anti-theist who does not have a clue about that which he condemns. Why should I?

I don't. I don't need them as not a soul on this board CNA harm me unless I let them.

I agree, and very much practice the same attitude.

So please carry on. Debate me if you wish or ignore me if that suits you.

Why would I ignore you? As of yet you have not demonstrated the same attitude as the anti-atheist. As I have said, it is they whom I ignore.
 

Sundance

pursuing the Divine Beloved
Premium Member
I personally don't mind classifying God as a symbol. God and derivatives like religion and Jesus Christ are all abstract notions. That's why everyone has a different definition of their God and religion.

However, the problem kicks in when people take the word of god literally. People are being murdered and discriminated due to these interprations. Murder might seem harsh here but I honestly don't think I'm being harsh. There are conservative religions and then there are extremists radicals. I would not dare be in the same room speaking my mind honestly with these radicals. I truly believe my life would be in danger if I spoke freely.

Creationism is the literal translation of the Christian bible. People actually want to teach others that the world only started existing 6000 years ago.

There is very little consistency with religion. It is arbitrary except in the foundation of faith. Everything else is personally defined by the individual.

Right on. In all seriousness, though, if you have deep convictions in your heart about anything, it's imperative that you speak up. A silence that's produced from fear is worse than death.
 
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I think this is a good thing to explore, but I feel you should implored to not ascribe it to traditional theistic ideology immediately. Explore. There are a lot of ways to remain atheistic and yet gain appreciation for our universe and have a sense of community. Don't just fall back into Christianity; explore. Given your post, I highly suggest you read the Tao Te Ching and the Dhammapada.
 

eagerlearner

New Member
@Serenity7855 and @ JoStories

Thank you for your replies and interest in what I had to say. I guess that first post was simply venting on my part. Because I've had so many bad experiences with atheists. You are right Jo that I shouldn't blanket every atheist out there in this way. And to the others here who suggested I not make such sweeping statements, I agree. I know not every atheist is aggressive and out to harm. On the flip side, not every Christian is out to be aggressive and do harm. But as some previous poster stated he or she had run ins with some aggressive Christians acting very much the way I described.

My point was and will always be that we are free to believe what we want. If you believe in God, COOL!. If you are atheist, COOL! Let's be friends and get along and share ideas across the table and talk to each other and find out why we feel the way we do. If we could let go for a moment and not have to be right all the damn time we might actually get somewhere.

To share part of my own spiritual experiences....when I was very very young in times of distress and need I would pray, and I always received a warm feeling of understanding and support. Now I prayed greedy and self centered so not all my prayers came true. And I learned after a while that praying and believing is not about having your prayers come true, but it is about the act of praying itself. The power of prayer. I learned to pray for what I wanted first. Then to add into that prayer the ability to be strong and accept what outcome may happen. And thirdly to be thankful to ever have lived at all and had so many experiences from very bad to very good. All through my life I've had spiritual feelings and I can not express the joy and enrichment and comfort to my life.

Now here is the breaking point between spiritual people and atheists....an atheist can't seem to accept that people are having these experiences. And you can say all you want that it's not real and you can't prove it and there's no math or science to qualify it or prove a God exists. I think it eats you guys from the inside out that while you can't prove it, you also can't deny that billions of people have spiritual experiences. You don't need to prove it. All you need to do is acknowledge it. It wouldn't matter if they were praying to my toaster on the counter behind me. The experiences are happening. And if you just sat down with a few of them and let them talk to you they could really open your eyes to the benefit of faith and praying and going to church and reaching out to have a relationship with someone higher than yourself. Families are repaired. Broken lives are pulled out of the gutter. People are changed and made whole again after injury or accident. Those that took the wrong path in life are put back on the right path when they thought there was no way and that their life was over.

Atheism and Religion are one in the same. You gain focus and comfort and understanding from a concept of how you view life and the meaning of all things. They are exactly the same. We both worship a way of thinking...of believing we are the ones with the right answer and no one else.

I just wonder what anyone gains from trying to tear down another. Someone on here said well it's when religious people want to hurt others that it becomes dangerous. WHO are you talking about? Who is trying to hurt someone? I am not trying to hurt anyone. Are you?

I might as well say the danger is when atheists want to hurt someone.


And you know, I was commenting on how mocking and ridiculing atheists can be, and the OP says all of this was a joke. Many people will reach out to you out of pure sincerity and love and support because of your joke only to realize later that you were insincere and were making fools out of others for your enjoyment. Way to represent atheists. You have every right to your beliefs. Apparently you also have the right to be one giant ********.
 
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FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
I think this is a good thing to explore, but I feel you should implored to not ascribe it to traditional theistic ideology immediately. Explore. There are a lot of ways to remain atheistic and yet gain appreciation for our universe and have a sense of community. Don't just fall back into Christianity; explore. Given your post, I highly suggest you read the Tao Te Ching and the Dhammapada.

People lie every now and then, some celebrate it by a big lie and which is called April fool.
 

Jumi

Well-Known Member
I never do an April fools, but sometimes they are entertaining. Just like the Onion, at best they can encourage critical thinking.
 

skl

A man on a mission
Serenity7855 [/QUOTE]It all depends on how fervently you defend your beliefs. If you roll over on your back, in submission, to get your tummy tickled, then you will not encounter the obnoxious side of the forum bullies, however, if, like me, you stand by your beliefs, regardless of consequences, you will see them come out of their holes, form a pack, and attack with the fervency of a pack of wolf, being organised and experts in the hunt. I have had as many as 10 of them attacking me, personally, from spelling mistakes to personal abuse and ad hominem, and my personal religious beliefs, but you have been here for but a short time. Maybe in time your views will alter.

I cannot help but feel you are not suited to these types of forums. The whole idea is to debate and criticise personal religious, atheist or whatever beliefs. People on all sides are often passionate about their beliefs and feelings’ regarding the issues on this forum and that is why most of them are here.

I understand a few may go over the top with name calling and correcting your spelling but you do not need to acknowledge those people and in fact if it is so bad you can turn your computer off. I am an atheist and I have some very strong views about religious belief and their traditional behaviour so I warn you that if I debate with you I will not go as far as to call you or anybody else rude names but I will also not pull any punches and I do not apologise for that.
 

Rick O'Shez

Irishman bouncing off walls
I think this is a good thing to explore, but I feel you should implored to not ascribe it to traditional theistic ideology immediately. Explore. There are a lot of ways to remain atheistic and yet gain appreciation for our universe and have a sense of community. Don't just fall back into Christianity; explore. Given your post, I highly suggest you read the Tao Te Ching and the Dhammapada.

Indeed. There is much to explore, and it's a fascinating journey.
 

Serenity7855

Lambaster of the Angry Anti-Theists
It all depends on how fervently you defend your beliefs. If you roll over on your back, in submission, to get your tummy tickled, then you will not encounter the obnoxious side of the forum bullies, however, if, like me, you stand by your beliefs, regardless of consequences, you will see them come out of their holes, form a pack, and attack with the fervency of a pack of wolf, being organised and experts in the hunt. I have had as many as 10 of them attacking me, personally, from spelling mistakes to personal abuse and ad hominem, and my personal religious beliefs, but you have been here for but a short time. Maybe in time your views will alter.

I cannot help but feel you are not suited to these types of forums. The whole idea is to debate and criticise personal religious, atheist or whatever beliefs. People on all sides are often passionate about their beliefs and feelings’ regarding the issues on this forum and that is why most of them are here.

After ten years of frequenting these forums I would say that your feeling could in fact be incorrect. I can, and I do, debate very well in defence of my belief system. I fully expect to be challenged on those beliefs. What I do not expect, or tolerate, is personal abuse.

I understand a few may go over the top with name calling and correcting your spelling but you do not need to acknowledge those people and in fact if it is so bad you can turn your computer off.

I know that, and that is exactly what I do, however, there is no excused for personal nefarious denegration. It is simply odiously wrong and a duplicitous tactic to obscure the inability of the atheists to dismantle your defence.

I am an atheist and I have some very strong views about religious belief and their traditional behaviour

Why do you have such views. What business is it of yours as to whether I, or any other Christian, believe in deity. Nobody is binding and shackling you in order to get you into the waters of baptism. Christianity is based on good moral principles intended to make us better people. How can you have strong views against morality. Or do you make the same mistake as most atheists do in blaming God for the actions of mankind. At the end of the day it is none of your business and should never effect you in your disbelief.

so I warn you that if I debate with you I will not go as far as to call you or anybody else rude names but I will also not pull any punches and I do not apologise for that.

I do not expect punches to be pulled, however, make sure that you have your gum shields firmly in place as I do not pull my punches either, I to make no apology for it either. I have never conceded a debate based on my religion.
 

Mycroft

Ministry of Serendipity
I also considered the fine tuning argument as one of the strongest ones in support of a non natural origin of conscious beings. The chances of life are so negligible that it seems really a stretch to believe that consciousness can arise out of unconscious processes.


And yet the chances of life aren't that negligible at all. The latest editions to the Drake Equation estimate that there may be as many as 280,000,000 civilisations in this galaxy alone. And that's as a conservative number.

Isn't maybe possible that humanity occupies a special place in the great scheme of things?

Prove it.
 

Mycroft

Ministry of Serendipity
Or do you make the same mistake as most atheists do in blaming God for the actions of mankind.


It's not a question of blame, but a question of responsibility. As Epicurus once wrote:

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then He is not omnipotent. Is He able, but not willing? Then He is malevolent. Is He both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is He neither able nor willing? Then why call Him God?

I believe your own US Constitution can be summed up as 'Those who have the power to act have the responsibility to act'.
 

JoStories

Well-Known Member

It does not matter to me either. The point I was making is that it is irrelevant as none of us know what gender the other is.



I am sure that you have. I was not competing with you. I was merely saying that in my experience, anti-atheists, who are here to argue rather then debate, are not worth entertaining. There can be no benefit to me and I am certainly not going to provide the entertainment for Anti-atheists



Yes, I have made a very similar mistake as well. I am not an evangelist though. I do not proselytise anymore as I believe that is now flogging dead horses. I care little if you do not accept the gospel, it is your choice, but I will help you if you want to know more. The world has changed and is now ripe with evil, Satan has become the God of this temporal world we live in and man have hardened their hearts to God. So, are you an atheist then?



If you are an atheists and this is as you say it, then you are the exception to the rule. I have made it clear that not all atheists here are as I described.



That is not the case. I will debate anybody with equal gusto, however, I am not going to allow my integrity to be tarnished by a vicious and vacuous anti-theist who does not have a clue about that which he condemns. Why should I?



I agree, and very much practice the same attitude.



Why would I ignore you? As of yet you have not demonstrated the same attitude as the anti-atheist. As I have said, it is they whom I ignore.


Thank you for,your reply. No, I am not an atheist. I believe in God but I don't believe as you do. I follow an eastern path that leads me to a place of peace and a deep understanding of God as I concieve of that concept. I do thank you for the offer for learning about the bible for you but I have studied all faiths as a part of my PhD in theology. I have read the bible, including in Greek and Hebrew. And as for atheists, I enjoy learning from everyone because in my experience all peoples are fascinating and are on the path they'd should be for them. There are a couple of posters here that truly challenge my patience,but I remember that they, too, have POV that I can learn from.
 

JoStories

Well-Known Member
I'd just like to point something out, emphasis mine:


Then, merely two paragraphs later:


Your hypocrisy is duly noted, and I am pleased that you added that disclaimer, gracefully telling JoStories that she doesn't have to take anything you say as being true.
Immortal, I do thank you but it's my position that everyone had something to,share and serenity is just trying to share his/her POV because this is where she is now. It may be hypocritical but it is where they are right now.
 

Serenity7855

Lambaster of the Angry Anti-Theists
Eh? How do you mean?

The Catholic priest, who is a paedophile, is oft times God's fault rather then the priest who actually commits the atrocities. The usual statement that is made is that "if there is a God, He would not allow this to happen". No attention is given to the fact that the priest has free agency and that God cannot intervene without removing that free agency. The problem is caused by a lack of understanding about Christianity and our reason and purpose for existing.
 

Serenity7855

Lambaster of the Angry Anti-Theists
Thank you for,your reply. No, I am not an atheist. I believe in God but I don't believe as you do. I follow an eastern path that leads me to a place of peace and a deep understanding of God as I concieve of that concept. I do thank you for the offer for learning about the bible for you but I have studied all faiths as a part of my PhD in theology. I have read the bible, including in Greek and Hebrew. And as for atheists, I enjoy learning from everyone because in my experience all peoples are fascinating and are on the path they'd should be for them. There are a couple of posters here that truly challenge my patience,but I remember that they, too, have POV that I can learn from.

Cool, and extremely interesting.
 
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