Louisiana becomes first state to require that Ten Commandments be displayed in public classrooms

[Pogo]

Absolutely… that is what I mean by “modern interpretation” but not based on precedent. (Like unto the abortion issue - not making this an issue but simply using it as an example which the Court had to undo).

Back on the subject - in the 1960’s a shift happened, not on precedent, but a new interpretation of separation of church and state to read “freedom from religion” instead of “freedom of religion” - reversing almost 200 years of the foundation of what it meant.

But, again, to show that it is not what it is today:

Pennsylvania:

Text of Preamble: WE, the people of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of civil and religious liberty, and humbly invoking His guidance, do ordain and establish this Constitution.

Delaware:

PREAMBLE​

Through Divine goodness, all people have by nature the rights of worshiping and serving their Creator according to the dictates of their consciences, of enjoying and defending life and liberty, of acquiring and protecting reputation and property, and in general of obtaining objects suitable to their condition, without injury by one to another; and as these rights are essential to their welfare, for due exercise thereof, power is inherent in them; and therefore all just authority in the institutions of political society is derived from the people, and established with their consent, to advance their happiness; and they may for this end, as circumstances require, from time to time, alter their Constitution of government.

New York

Text of Preamble: We The People of the State of New York, grateful to Almighty God for our Freedom, in order to secure its blessings, DO ESTABLISH THIS CONSTITUTION.[1]

Virginia:

Whereas, the delegates and representatives of the good people of Virginia, in convention assembled, on the twenty-ninth day of June, in the year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and seventy-six, reciting and declaring that...
… We, therefore, the delegates of the good people of Virginia, elected and in convention assembled, in pursuance of said acts, invoking the favor and guidance of Almighty God, do propose to the people the following constitution and form of government for this commonwealth:

And so forth and so on for all states.

God, Year of Our Lord, Almighty God, His guidance, Divine Goodness… and so much more...

Obviously, “separation FROM religion” was not on their mind. Today viewpoint is out of context and in error.

How many years passed before the 10 Commandments were removed?

This is your same bad argument that we used to do it so it should be ok.
Just because the majority of immigrants to this country where Christian in the past and never considered other religions does not make that a reason for lack of consideration in a more multi-cultural country.
Nobody is telling you you can't be religious, only that no one religion gets pride of place.
The US was founded on the idea of keeping government out of religion to avoid religious wars in fact if you go back just a little further in your history.

 

[Kenny]

How Christian Slaveholders Used the Bible to Justify Slavery

Read an excerpt from 'The Great Stain: Witnessing American Slavery' by Noel Rae

time.com

??? I don’t think you have added any important info.

Louisiana becomes first state to require that Ten Commandments be displayed in public classrooms

How about The Satanic Temple request that their Seven Tenants be posted in every classroom by law? THERE ARE SEVEN FUNDAMENTAL TENETS I One should strive to act with compassion and empathy toward all creatures in accordance with reason. II The struggle for justice is an ongoing and necessary...

www.religiousforums.com

@fantome profane was balanced and not radical in his statement.

 

[Kenny]

This is your same bad argument that we used to do it so it should be ok.
Just because the majority of immigrants to this country where Christian in the past and never considered other religions does not make that a reason for lack of consideration in a more multi-cultural country.
Nobody is telling you you can't be religious, only that no one religion gets pride of place.
The US was founded on the idea of keeping government out of religion to avoid religious wars in fact if you go back just a little further in your history.

Ok… you just ignored evidence. How can I argue if ones ignores what is in front of their eyes?

 

[Revoltingest]

The bible doesn't endorse slavery, it simply states that it's a way of life for some people.

The Bible rails against things that were a way of life for
many people, eg, gay sex, charging interest on loans.
For it slavery to be without criticism says that it's
hunky dory.
The only reason Christians (most) reject it now is
more progressive secular values, & societal pressure.
The Bible is "bi" on that subject.

 

[Kathryn]

The Bible rails against things that were a way of life for
many people, eg, gay sex, charging interest on loans.
For it slavery to be without criticism says that it's
hunky dory.
The only reason Christians (most) reject it now is
more progressive secular values, & societal pressure.
The Bible is "bi" on that subject.

Slavery is not declared as "hunky dory" or positive in the bible. In the US and elsewhere, people were very opposed to slavery and stated many biblical truths as reasons.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I know I don't care. Public schools are so ****ty and a mess, that they could use a bit of religion. Some deity, saint or holy person needs to bless them and help them out. Lol. Lord knows the government isn't. These bad kids and even a lot of the teachers could use a reminder of morality, 1st Commandment aside.

I wish all the hysteria over this would be directed towards the actual issues in public schools. But no.

 

[Revoltingest]

??? I don’t think you have added any important info.

The link must be read in order to glean the important info
about Christianity's long long comfort with enslaving people.

@fantome profane was balanced and not radical in his statement.

It is indeed unfortunate that my anti-slavery
stance would be "radical" in this day & age.
As for balance, thou ought remove that plank
from thine eye.

 

[Sand Dancer]

Are they really?

Poverty Rate by State 2024

worldpopulationreview.com

PS

Apparently the states that have had an increase by percentage in the last 10 years are Alaska, North Dakota and West Virginia:

2023 Poverty Rate By State, Per The Latest Census Data

Find out which states suffer from the highest levels of poverty and which do not.

www.forbes.com

MS and LA are on top with AL on the list too. Many of the deep south states are there. Whatever will improve things is what we should do. I am looking at per capita.

 

[Revoltingest]

Slavery is not declared as "hunky dory" or positive in the bible. In the US and elsewhere, people were very opposed to slavery and stated many biblical truths as reasons.

Christians are largely opposed to slavery now.
But given their long history, this is a relatively
recent philosophical turn. But I approve.

The Bible was clearly against gay sex, ie, it's an
abomination deserving the death penalty.
Now that is taking a firm stand.
Slavery....meh, it's just business as usual for
for Christians. The lack of condemnation is
no mere tacit approval.

BTW, I didn't put quotation marks around
"hunky dory" in my post. It's a modern term
describing the biblical acceptance of slavery.

 

[Subduction Zone]

That is a worthless and misleading image. It goes by gross numbers rather than by per capita. Wyoming is the "least poor" state there

Are they really?

Poverty Rate by State 2024

worldpopulationreview.com

PS

Apparently the states that have had an increase by percentage in the last 10 years are Alaska, North Dakota and West Virginia:

2023 Poverty Rate By State, Per The Latest Census Data

Find out which states suffer from the highest levels of poverty and which do not.

www.forbes.com

Yes, really. Do not be misled by the silly map. It is extremely misleading since that is based upon population, not per capita poverty. Take California, according to the map it is the highest, but that is just because it also has by far the largest population. On a per capita basis it is slightly worse than average. And when one goes by numerical rankings it is 26th when one includes both the District of Columbia and DC., and 24th out of 50 if you do not include DC and Puerto Rico. Or in other words it is dead center:

List of U.S. states and territories by poverty rate - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Meanwhile the poorest two states are Mississippi and Louisiana. And out of the top ten states when it comes to poverty only New Mexico is blue.

 

[fantome profane]

@fantome profane was balanced and not radical in his statement.

Wow! I am going to have to try harder in the future.

 

[Kathryn]

Christians are largely opposed to slavery now.
But given their long history, this is a relatively
recent philosophical turn. But I approve.

The Bible was clearly against gay sex, ie, it's an
abomination deserving the death penalty.
Now that is taking a firm stand.
Slavery....meh, it's just business as usual for
for Christians. The lack of condemnation is
no mere tacit approval.

BTW, I didn't put quotations around "hunky dory"
in my post. It's a modern term I used to describe
the biblical acceptance of slavery.

I know, I was just using your terminology as a nicety.

All that is old testament stuff, I believe, by the way. Including the Ten Commandments, which I have addressed several times, so I won't keep doing so. Anyway, that's how I roll.

 

[Kathryn]

That is a worthless and misleading image. It goes by gross numbers rather than by per capita. Wyoming is the "least poor" state there

Yes, really. Do not be misled by the silly map. It is extremely misleading since that is based upon population, not per capita poverty. Take California, according to the map it is the highest, but that is just because it also has by far the largest population. On a per capita basis it is slightly worse than average. And when one goes by numerical rankings it is 26th when one includes both the District of Columbia and DC., and 24th out of 50 if you do not include DC and Puerto Rico. Or in other words it is dead center:

List of U.S. states and territories by poverty rate - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Meanwhile the poorest two states are Mississippi and Louisiana. And out of the top ten states when it comes to poverty only New Mexico is blue.

As a former Texan, I always hated when people didn't take the per capita issue into consideration.

I remember one time someone was saying something like "Texas leads the nation in drunk driving deaths!" or something similar. PER CAPITA, Texas was right in the middle of the states.

 

[SalixIncendium]

But we are talking about the mandatory posting from a book that endorses slavery.

Does the "Ten Commandments" include an outline on how to enslave people?

That is what we are talking about. It is not asinine to object to that.

Where did I say it was? Straw man much?

 

[Revoltingest]

I know, I was just using your terminology as a nicety.

All that is old testament stuff, I believe, by the way. Including the Ten Commandments, which I have addressed several times, so I won't keep doing so. Anyway, that's how I roll.

Odd it is that many Christians dismiss the Old Testament
as an irrelevant vestige in discussions wherein they argue
for its commandments be posted in public schools & places.

 

[Revoltingest]

As a former Texan, I always hated when people didn't take the per capita issue into consideration.

I remember one time someone was saying something like "Texas leads the nation in drunk driving deaths!" or something similar. PER CAPITA, Texas was right in the middle of the states.

If Texans were sober, they'd drive around the
states instead of hitting them in the middle.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Slavery is not declared as "hunky dory" or positive in the bible. In the US and elsewhere, people were very opposed to slavery and stated many biblical truths as reasons.

The Bible nowhere says that slavery is a bad thing -- and that was @Revoltingest's point: the Bible is quick to point out everything its authors saw as "bad." Masturbation, interest, making images of deities, etc. If slavery isn't on the list, the writers didn't think it was bad.

Yes, the Bible was used by abolitionists -- just as it was used by slave-owners. Abraham Lincoln once said, in effect, that he had been advised by religious folks on both sides of the matter, but he was certain that on a matter so central to his duty, that the deity would confide in him directly.

 

[Revoltingest]

Does the "Ten Commandments" include an outline on how to enslave people?

I don't read it, so I don't know the details.
However, another poster pointed out that the
Old Testament contained both acceptance of
slavery and the 10 Commandments.
It's analogous to quoting passages from Mein
Kampf, & belief that this context is irrelevant.

 

[Kathryn]

The Bible nowhere says that slavery is a bad thing -- and that was @Revoltingest's point: the Bible is quick to point out everything its authors saw as "bad." Masturbation, interest, making images of deities, etc. If slavery isn't on the list, the writers didn't think it was bad.

Yes, the Bible was used by abolitionists -- just as it was used by slave-owners. Abraham Lincoln once said, in effect, that he had been advised by religious folks on both sides of the matter, but he was certain that on a matter so central to his duty, that the deity would confide in him directly.

And apparently He did. News flash, slavery was considered to be OK by many groups of people for many years, and still is by some groups. Not just Southern USAers. The New Testament doesn't state anything positive or negative about slavery from what I can recall.

 

[Revoltingest]

And apparently He did. News flash, slavery was considered to be OK by many groups of people for many years, and still is by some groups.

The popularity & ubiquity of slavery isn't a
convincing argument to exculpate the Bible.