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Louisiana becomes first state to require that Ten Commandments be displayed in public classrooms

Pogo

Pogo

Well-Known Member
Clizby Wampuscat said:
That black people of African descent cannot be citizens? What are you asking?
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Considering the current scotus's focus on originalism and textual fidelity, what argument would the SC make and what would be their judgement is this a good enough explanation of grounds in this context?
 
Shadow Wolf

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Revoltingest said:
To most leaders, the founders are icons upon
whom their personal values are projected.
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That's why they shouldn't meet their heroes. They will be disappointed by the disapproval, scorn and realization those Founders they can name have mostly rejected, denounced and ridiculed Christianity.
 
Pogo

Pogo

Well-Known Member
Argentbear said:
you might want to read the actual 1980 decision. You seem to have some unfounded ideas about that ruling.
The ruling relied on the "Lemon test"
The Court found that the statute failed the first prong—that of secular purpose. The posting of the ten commandments served no educational function. The court found “not even a pretense of a secular purpose in the statute….Despite defendant’s argument that the Ten
Commandments provide the 'cornerstone of our legal system' and 'thus have become secular in nature,'" the court focused instead on the sectarian nature of the first three commandments, the lack of explanation of purpose on the postings themselves, and the statute’s specific mandate that the Decalogue of the Christian religion be posted. The court concluded that the statute failed not only the Lemon secular purpose requirement—but also the second prong—that the activity not advance not just religion but advancement of a specific religion.
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Yeah I read it and how does this case differ in its Lemony-ness. it is a specific religions version and LA isn't even pretending an educational value?

"The Court applied a three-prong test called the Lemon test (named after the lead plaintiff Alton Lemon) to decide if the state statutes violated the Establishment Clause.[4][5][6]"

Lemon v. Kurtzman - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

The court could ignore its own test for what the establishment clause means but assuming that is just a step too far even for this court.
This stuff is HS level history / civics, did you not take it in this country?
 
Balthazzar

Balthazzar

N. Germanic Descent
Evangelicalhumanist said:
Okay so far --- but what follows from that, do you think? (Hint: this is where the Enlightenment really began.)
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At one time, I feared what most would ... a government that would enable religious rules as policy norms. This was the onset of my stance against the 10 commandments, which I've championing for a little less than a decade now. Granted, it took a long time to fall into to that position, but after over a decade of discussion, debate, and discourse on the subject, I submitted to its "wisdom" (no religion in schools) although, I did think cultural theology applied as a sociology type course should be allowed.

Allowing the 10 back in is a very different dynamic than what we had then, and one I'm on board with now. Honestly, I wouldn't have been without understanding the reason. I don't think this will reach even half of our 50, or even a quarter maybe, but I do anticipate a few more states to join the effort of assembly...if this is the intent at all. When I say assembly, I'm addressing larger areas for particular types of people to reside and call home. It's a type of red state blue state understanding where birds of the same feather flock.
 
Regiomontanus

Regiomontanus

Eastern Orthodox
Guitar's Cry said:
Then you are only interested in espousing the idea of "Having that in the classroom is not forcing anything. Ignore as you wish" when it comes to your belief in certain religious materials?
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Some things are worthy of being put into the classroom. Nonsense and heresy are not.
 
Regiomontanus

Regiomontanus

Eastern Orthodox
Shadow Wolf said:
Of course not even though displaying the Satanic Temple's Seven Fundamental Tenants would be forcing it upon kids to the exact same degree.
And of course you would be offended. I'm offended over this brazen promotion of a religion headed by a god who demands I be killed.
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Brother, read the New Testament. Even though (IMHO) you have a disordered lifestyle, I would protect you with my life.
 
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Balthazzar

Balthazzar

N. Germanic Descent
Evangelicalhumanist said:
And what is "heresy?" Beliefs or opinions contrary to those you hold? If you can't prove either to be correct or incorrect, what makes yours more worthy than theirs?
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I would have been considered an apostate and excommunicated, yet here I am in support of the decision. It's not that I'm devout to the core doctrines or even remotely living in a manner most would view to be a Christian lifestyle. No, quite the contrary, I would be viewed as an apostate in many circles, a heathen, infidel in others, and some would very likely place me in the satanist camps. Truth is, I'm a Christian. It's my personal relationship and one only I am required to answer for. It's called accountability and honoring in spirit and truth. Truth is, I find nothing dangerous or contrary to my values in the 10 commandments. At one time, I feared what you do ... Religious rules being forced on citizens by decree of government powers. This does not equate to a display on a wall in a community who has agreed to the displays by a state majority.
 
Shadow Wolf

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Regiomontanus said:
Brother, read the New Testament. Even though (IMHO) you have a disordered lifestyle, I would protect you with my life.
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I'm a girl and not your brother. And I haven't just read the NT, I was brought up for Church leadership.
And if you really followed the instructions of your god your wouldn't protect me. That would be disobeying your god who has commanded I be executed.
 
Shadow Wolf

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Balthazzar said:
I would have been considered an apostate and excommunicated, yet here I am in support of the decision. It's not that I'm devout to the core doctrines or even remotely living in a manner most would view to be a Christian lifestyle. No, quite the contrary, I would be viewed as an apostate in many circles, a heathen, infidel in others, and some would very likely place me in the satanist camps. Truth is, I'm a Christian. It's my personal relationship and one only I am required to answer for. It's called accountability and honoring in spirit and truth. Truth is, I find nothing dangerous or contrary to my values in the 10 commandments. At one time, I feared what you do ... Religious rules being forced on citizens by decree of government powers. This does not equate to a display on a wall in a community who has agreed to the displays by a state majority.
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Yeah, it does. This is a larger effort of trying to force American Conservative, Evangelical values on all of us.
 
Regiomontanus

Regiomontanus

Eastern Orthodox
Shadow Wolf said:
I'm a girl and not your brother. And I haven't just read the NT, I was brought up for Church leadership.
And if you really followed the instructions of your god your wouldn't protect me. That would be disobeying your god who has commanded I be executed.
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So, raised as a Cristian, do you really think Jesus would want you killed because of your lifestyle choices/identification/beliefs?
 
Regiomontanus

Regiomontanus

Eastern Orthodox
Shadow Wolf said:
His father's laws demand it.
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You were raised a Protestant, I am going to guess. And a very 'conservative,' fundamentalist variety?

It is sad what America did the true faith. Anyway, I have no beef with you but, IMHO, you have a distorted view of Christianity.

Nothing but love from me.
 
Evangelicalhumanist

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
Balthazzar said:
I would have been considered an apostate and excommunicated, yet here I am in support of the decision. It's not that I'm devout to the core doctrines or even remotely living in a manner most would view to be a Christian lifestyle. No, quite the contrary, I would be viewed as an apostate in many circles, a heathen, infidel in others, and some would very likely place me in the satanist camps. Truth is, I'm a Christian. It's my personal relationship and one only I am required to answer for. It's called accountability and honoring in spirit and truth. Truth is, I find nothing dangerous or contrary to my values in the 10 commandments. At one time, I feared what you do ... Religious rules being forced on citizens by decree of government powers. This does not equate to a display on a wall in a community who has agreed to the displays by a state majority.
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When I was a schoolboy, several centuries ago, I was a ward of the Children's Aid. (Technicall, I was a ward of the crown, meaning that effectively the Queen was my guardian -- not that it did me much good. :rolleyes:) I did not know my father -- not even his name -- and he had never seen my face, even as an infant, and my mother was long gone out of my life. Much later in life (in fact not until I was 70) did I learn all the facts, and discover my 16 half brothers and sisters (actually 18 - twins died shortly after being born). My father knocked my mother up and left, and then another girl, giving me a half-brother exactly 6 months younger than me. And then, 4 months before I was born, married a third girl who was already pregnant by him. My mother married a man shortly after I was born who horribly abused me, almost killing me twice, which she did little to stop.

May I just hint at what I might have thought about a "commandment" to honour my father and my mother?

I also did not believe in God. I would not have appreciated being informed "officially" (i.e. on the wall of the school dedicated to my education) that I was wrong, and that there was a God, and I was required to worship Him alone.

Oddly, the commandments do not say that my father shouldn't have left, nor my step-father shouldn't have abused me. God, for some reason, left those out, which rather suggests that they weren't issues for Him. Nothing in God's law against abandoning me, either.

You may think this trivial, and I could just "get over it," but all this happened by the time I was 8 years old in grade 3. You may have heard that these can be quite impressionable years.

Further, I live in one of the most multicultural cities, provinces and country in the world. I was surrounded by Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Protestants, Catholics, Buddhists etc. They were in my classrooms. They had as much right to be there as I did -- and as much right to be respected for who they were, and not to have (for them) "foreign" religious idiologies thrust upon them. School was for learning what a child needs to know -- religion was for home and church/temple/mosque/etc.

If you think I'm making an argument for the sake of it, you might ponder on the things that happened to me -- and why I feel very strongly about it.
 
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