Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
Oh by the way, it was a direct response to the content of your post.
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Louisiana becomes first state to require that Ten Commandments be displayed in public classrooms
- Thread starter Evangelicalhumanist
- Start date
It seems to me that it's cheaper to pay people what it takes to get them to work than to put a large investment into buying a slave and have to provide housing, food, clothing, and at least enough medical care to keep the investment alive. Consider migrant farm labor such as picking cotton, where people will work for peanuts. It may be cheaper. There's no initial multithousand-dollar outlay, and they fend for themselves after hours. If one dies, another one will come along do the job.
The Bible condones slavery. It gives rules for who can and who cannot be made a slave, and just how badly one can be beaten.
Even if it didn't, the failure to condemn it means that it's not a sufficient moral source.
Have you ever seen The Affirmations of Humanism? This is what a moral system should look like. It's life and freedom affirming. You can see from it why humanists find Christian ethics lacking, especially the Ten Commandments:
We are committed to the application of reason and science to the understanding of the universe and to the solving of human problems.
We deplore efforts to denigrate human intelligence, to seek to explain the world in supernatural terms, and to look outside nature for salvation.
We believe that scientific discovery and technology can contribute to the betterment of human life.
We believe in an open and pluralistic society and that democracy is the best guarantee of protecting human rights from authoritarian elites and repressive majorities.
We are committed to the principle of the separation of church and state.
We cultivate the arts of negotiation and compromise as a means of resolving differences and achieving mutual understanding.
We are concerned with securing justice and fairness in society and with eliminating discrimination and intolerance.
We believe in supporting the disadvantaged and the handicapped so that they will be able to help themselves.
We attempt to transcend divisive parochial loyalties based on race, religion, gender, nationality, creed, class, sexual orientation, or ethnicity, and strive to work together for the common good of humanity.
We want to protect and enhance the earth, to preserve it for future generations, and to avoid inflicting needless suffering on other species.
We believe in enjoying life here and now and in developing our creative talents to their fullest.
We believe in the cultivation of moral excellence.
We respect the right to privacy. Mature adults should be allowed to fulfill their aspirations, to express their sexual preferences, to exercise reproductive freedom, to have access to comprehensive and informed health-care, and to die with dignity.
We believe in the common moral decencies: altruism, integrity, honesty, truthfulness, responsibility. Humanist ethics is amenable to critical, rational guidance. There are normative standards that we discover together. Moral principles are tested by their consequences.
We are deeply concerned with the moral education of our children. We want to nourish reason and compassion.
We are engaged by the arts no less than by the sciences.
We are citizens of the universe and are excited by discoveries still to be made in the cosmos.
We are skeptical of untested claims to knowledge, and we are open to novel ideas and seek new departures in our thinking.
We affirm humanism as a realistic alternative to theologies of despair and ideologies of violence and as a source of rich personal significance and genuine satisfaction in the service to others.
We believe in optimism rather than pessimism, hope rather than despair, learning in the place of dogma, truth instead of ignorance, joy rather than guilt or sin, tolerance in the place of fear, love instead of hatred, compassion over selfishness, beauty instead of ugliness, and reason rather than blind faith or irrationality.
We believe in the fullest realization of the best and noblest that we are capable of as human beings.
We deplore efforts to denigrate human intelligence, to seek to explain the world in supernatural terms, and to look outside nature for salvation.
We believe that scientific discovery and technology can contribute to the betterment of human life.
We believe in an open and pluralistic society and that democracy is the best guarantee of protecting human rights from authoritarian elites and repressive majorities.
We are committed to the principle of the separation of church and state.
We cultivate the arts of negotiation and compromise as a means of resolving differences and achieving mutual understanding.
We are concerned with securing justice and fairness in society and with eliminating discrimination and intolerance.
We believe in supporting the disadvantaged and the handicapped so that they will be able to help themselves.
We attempt to transcend divisive parochial loyalties based on race, religion, gender, nationality, creed, class, sexual orientation, or ethnicity, and strive to work together for the common good of humanity.
We want to protect and enhance the earth, to preserve it for future generations, and to avoid inflicting needless suffering on other species.
We believe in enjoying life here and now and in developing our creative talents to their fullest.
We believe in the cultivation of moral excellence.
We respect the right to privacy. Mature adults should be allowed to fulfill their aspirations, to express their sexual preferences, to exercise reproductive freedom, to have access to comprehensive and informed health-care, and to die with dignity.
We believe in the common moral decencies: altruism, integrity, honesty, truthfulness, responsibility. Humanist ethics is amenable to critical, rational guidance. There are normative standards that we discover together. Moral principles are tested by their consequences.
We are deeply concerned with the moral education of our children. We want to nourish reason and compassion.
We are engaged by the arts no less than by the sciences.
We are citizens of the universe and are excited by discoveries still to be made in the cosmos.
We are skeptical of untested claims to knowledge, and we are open to novel ideas and seek new departures in our thinking.
We affirm humanism as a realistic alternative to theologies of despair and ideologies of violence and as a source of rich personal significance and genuine satisfaction in the service to others.
We believe in optimism rather than pessimism, hope rather than despair, learning in the place of dogma, truth instead of ignorance, joy rather than guilt or sin, tolerance in the place of fear, love instead of hatred, compassion over selfishness, beauty instead of ugliness, and reason rather than blind faith or irrationality.
We believe in the fullest realization of the best and noblest that we are capable of as human beings.
The NT says, "Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ."
That's never been an important part of Christianity. Look at how the church is behaving in the States now limiting reproductive options that even many if not most Christian women disapprove of and working to marginalize and demonize LGBTQ+. Look at how the Bible and the church teach its adherents to view atheists. None of those groups wants to be treated like the church treats them, nor would the church like being treated similarly.
But the Golden Rule is an important part of humanist ethics, which objects to all of the above.
You couldn't possibly have any more religious freedom that you presently enjoy, which I enumerated a posts back. Every American is "free to worship the god of their choice as they see fit. In the case of Christians they can pray, read their Bibles, wear crosses, put up Christman trees, and congregate in churches to sing hymns and hear sermons with like-minded people.
If you want more than that, you want too much. What religious freedom seems to mean to the American church presently is the ability to curtail the freedoms of others.
Every non-Christian needs to concern themselves with what the church in America is doing. What the church means by freedom of religion is the power to impose itself upon the unwilling and restrict THEIR freedoms.
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
We're not discussing whether it was a "common practice." We're discussing whether or not the God of the Bible condones it.
We're talking about how the Bible condones slavery. The commands about slavery in the Bible, supposedly came down from God.
*sigh*
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
It wasn't. It was an evasion of the content of my post and a "whatabout" to something else that we're not discussing.
Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
Jesus said the two greatest commandments of all are "Love your God with all your heart, and treat others as you want to be treated." It's a pretty big deal in the bible.
Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
Sorry you feel that way, but it directly addressed the content of your post in my opinion.
Where the heck are you coming from? What does it mean to "practice your faith in a restaurant?" Is somebody forbidding you from saying "Grace" before you eat? Or are you planning on setting up an altar beside your table and burning half your meal as an offering? The latter, I'm afraid, while the smoke my be "pleasing to the Lord," is likely to offend other diners!
As you said, you are guaranteed religious freedom -- and you have it. But that does not and cannot include forcing your religion on other people -- because then THEY would not have religious freedom, and that guarantee is for EVERYBODY. Not just Christians.
The deeper point is when you take people's freedoms away, and suggest that THEY can just go somewhere they'd prefer, you are pretending that there are no costs at all to plucking up roots and moving away. There are, in fact, very real costs -- and not everybody can afford them.
That is a piece of pure bull-excrement!
Atheists remain most disliked religious minority in the U.S.
Treat others as you want to be treated, eh? So, along with the Commandments, would you accept
The Sikh code of conduct? It is called Sikh Rahit Maryada (SRM) and stipulates four major cardinal commandments. The initiate must refrain from:
- Hajaamat – Dishonoring, removal, or alteration, of any hair on the body, face, or scalp.
- Halaal – Eating of flesh especially that killed in the manner of sanctioned sacrificial slaughter as proscribed in Islamic law.
- Haraam – Adulterous relations with the spouse of another. Relations with a Muslim woman for whom consequence might be the death penalty for consorting outside of marriage or Islam.
- Hukaa – Use of tobacco and other intoxicants.
Balthazzar
Christian Evolutionist
Ok, so we have enough religious freedom. This doesn't change my support for what Louisiana chose for their state. The communities we live in will suffice.
Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
I am not trying to force anything on anyone. I thought that was pretty clear but I'll reiterate it to be sure.
Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
Also I said "stations of life," not just politics.
Yes.
That is true… But it also says “train up the child in the nurture and the admonition of the Lord. So what happens when it also says “4 Fathers, don’t over-correct your children or make it difficult for them to obey the commandment. Bring them up with Christian teaching in Christian discipline."
It is more like your mining one scripture at the expense of others.
No… again mine quoting and taking it out of context,
Yes it is.
No… it is a historical legal document.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Can't read the image.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Even some poor people were occasionally owned a slave or two. From what you've said, you be one of the few members here could most easily afford them.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
I'm not sure if it is cheaper but it is terrible and detrimental to an economy.
If we had all the numbers I wouldn't be surprised if it's cheap for the owner but a net cost on society at large. Afterall, you deliberately impede, restrict and limit your economy when a large chunk of the population cannot participate in any meaningful way, and thus cannot spread the money to help support others.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
It is not a legal document. It has no legal binding or enforcement. And as it's not a legal document I faced no legal repercussions when I left church. I just got crap from the Christians who decided I was demonically possessed and evil and showed they wrte not really ever the friend I thought.
Where, in the actual text of the Bible (not in headings and notes added by modern editors) can you find the actual words "The Ten Commandments."
Hint, this has been posted before.
Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
Nope, they cost on average $800 each in 1860 (that's about $25,000 to $30,000 in today's money) and then you needed to house them, feed them, offer them medical care, etc. I'd rather spend my money elsewhere. But you do you.
I hate slavery and I have good reason to. I'll just leave it at that for now.
Monetary Value of Slaves | Encyclopedia.com
Monetary Value of SlavesThe entire Southern economy before the Civil War was based on the labor and value of enslaved people of African descent. People of African descent were treated like chattel, property that could be bought and sold like livestock and other commodities that slave owners...
McBell
Admiral Obvious
For God as well.
It is a hole in the ear.