Louisiana becomes first state to require that Ten Commandments be displayed in public classrooms

[McBell]

It is anticipated to go to the supreme court, certainly, but it is a far cry from being a simple "test". The law suits will help pave the way to the SC, where the larger issue will very likely be addressed - specifically.

The whole bill was specifically designed from the ground up to see how the current SCOTUS will rule.

 

[Kenny]

How about a reply to me?

It doesn’t amount to a hill of beans. The context Mr Humanist was something along the lines of how many times are the words “Ten Commandments” was listed in the Bible. There is absolutely no relevance.

 

[Kenny]

That doesn't address the point that the 10 Commandments is not a legal document.

And yet it is quoted hundreds of times in Supreme Court decisions making it a legal document. Much of our legal system is based on the Ten Commandments.

 

[Viker]

And yet it is quoted hundreds of times in Supreme Court decisions making it a legal document. Much of our legal system is based on the Ten Commandments.

It's only being used in reference. It still is not an actual legal document.

Here are some actual legal documents that are binding. They actually matter:

https://uscode.house.gov/

The Constitution of the United States

 

[Viker]

It seems that the current legislature and governor of Louisiana have not only violated federal law but their own state constitutional law.

'8. Freedom of Religion

Section 8. No law shall be enacted respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.'

From: Article I: Declaration of Rights

 

[Viker]

Why, again, must the Ten Commandments be displayed in every classroom (including things like highschool math or technical college classes), if not for intrusive religious indoctrination? Maybe for Christian nationalism?

If it's a historical document then perhaps for history classes. A very strong case there.

If it's a legal document then perhaps for legal classes.

 

[Balthazzar]

The whole bill was specifically designed from the ground up to see how the current SCOTUS will rule.

The bill, now signed into law will go through the channels and hopefully end up in the SC, where this issue can be addressed - after our 50 year take a look see window of effect. I wouldn't necessarily view them as an improvement in my area, but apparently Louisiana feels differently and put in the effort to make this happen.

I wonder what it would take for a state to actually go through the necessary steps to get as far as that State has gotten? I don't imagine it was easy, so there's an apparent dynamic involved suggesting a worthwhile effort to improve the community by Louisianians.

 

[Balthazzar]

It seems that the current legislature and governor of Louisiana have not only violated federal law but their own state constitutional law.

'8. Freedom of Religion

Section 8. No law shall be enacted respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.'

From: Article I: Declaration of Rights

Were our framing fathers Christian or atheists or made up of many religions? I question the wording at this moment how it may have applied then and when Louisiana signed on. Baptist, Methodist, Catholic, Deist, etc ... The 10 would satisfy these inclusively.

 

[Kenny]

It's only being used in reference. It still is not an actual legal document.

Here are some actual legal documents that are binding. They actually matter:

https://uscode.house.gov/

The Constitution of the United States

I agree that those documents are ultimately what matter.

The context of all the brouhaha is about posting the Ten Commandments. My position is that it has historical value. It is quoted in Supreme Court decisions and much of our laws are based on it. It isn’t pushing a religion and it isn’t being forced on anyone unless “Thou shalt not kill” is violated and then the laws based on that commandment is enforced.

 

[Viker]

Were our framing fathers Christian or atheists or made up of many religions? I question the wording at this moment how it may have applied then and when Louisiana signed on. Baptist, Methodist, Catholic, Deist, etc ... The 10 would satisfy these inclusively.

One thing is certain. They were not interested in repeating many of the errors of the past. State religion has always been troublesome and divisive. It would certainly have been a mess then as it would be nightmarish now. This is why they did not establish a state religion, instead allowing people to freely practice their own. And for nearly 250 years this is one thing that has worked well enough.

 

[Balthazzar]

Why, again, must the Ten Commandments be displayed in every classroom (including things like highschool math or technical college classes), if not for intrusive religious indoctrination? Maybe for Christian nationalism?

If it's a historical document then perhaps for history classes. A very strong case there.

If it's a legal document then perhaps for legal classes.

It's interesting to look back through history at our gains, our losses, and on to more gains, etc. It seems an ongoing way of operation. The country lost ability to display the 10 in the classrooms about 50 years ago, after being free enough to incorporate them for over 200 years. The window these last 50 years enabled us to look through has shown the effect of their removal all across the nation. No state has yet found it prudent to get them placed back in their school systems. There has been effort, there has been movement made, but none have been able to get this done to date. Until now, so I'm watching this one and I'm very curious to see how it all plays out moving forward.

At the moment it's a historical document. but I might suggest a dissolution from the federally enforced rule, that no law should be made that respects any particular religion, if only to separate from the general rule of the colonized "states".

 

[F1fan]

So, you're opposed to commerce and state spending on state accepted improvements?

The point is that the state is wasting money on a stunt that doesn't improve anything, while they are ranking very low in educational performace.

If you think hanging the Ten Commandments is an improvement, explain how? All these students already are exposed to religions in their daily life as it is.

 

[Revoltingest]

I respect your opinion but you are wrong. There is no way to justify slavery, murder, etc., if one really follows the teaching of the Christ.

I'm neither right nor wrong.
I only observe claims that Christians make about the Bible.
You say it doesn't justify slavery.
Others have said that it does.
Why is your interpretation correct, and all who disagree wrong?

 

[Revoltingest]

You sure do hold Christians up to a higher standard.

I hold them only to the standard they claim for themselves.

But I do agree that Christians should not support slavery and I don't see the connection - sorry.

The connection is that Christian Dominionists want
their scripture, ie, the 10 Commandments posted for
all to observe & honor. It's troubling to use schools
run by government to proselytize to non-believers.
It's heavy handed, & un-constitutional. Moreover,
Christianity has a checkered history that's unworthy
of following. The 10 commandments are variously,
irrelevant, good, evil, incomplete, & even ignored
by the very Christians who trumpet them..

 

[Balthazzar]

The point is that the state is wasting money on a stunt that doesn't improve anything, while they are ranking very low in educational performace.

If you think hanging the Ten Commandments is an improvement, explain how? All these students already are exposed to religions in their daily life as it is.

I'm not from Louisianna, I'm not part of the effort, nor is it my money that's funding the movement. I do support what they are doing. You'll need to ask someone from that area, specifically. I wouldn't pretend to be able to answer this one for them.

My thoughts are: It's their state, their choice and their cause. It doesn't affect me where I live, yet it has an impact, which I approve. You bring up performance rankings and I wonder if you've ever been to the bayous? My guess is life there is a job in and of itself.

 

[F1fan]

The bill, now signed into law will go through the channels and hopefully end up in the SC, where this issue can be addressed - after our 50 year take a look see window of effect.

But we all already know this bill is unconstitutional. It is a religious symbol and has no relevancy to law or education.

I wouldn't necessarily view them as an improvement in my area, but apparently Louisiana feels differently and put in the effort to make this happen.

What does it improve anywhere?

I wonder what it would take for a state to actually go through the necessary steps to get as far as that State has gotten?

Unethical politicians willing to violate the state and national constitutions.

I don't imagine it was easy, so there's an apparent dynamic involved suggesting a worthwhile effort to improve the community by Louisianians.

They surely did this for their own personal ideological aims, and in that sense it was easy for them to violate the two constitutions they live under.

And explain how hanging these posters helps anything. Wouldn't spending money on education or helping those in poverty be more worthwhile?

 

[Regiomontanus]

I'm neither right nor wrong.
I only observe claims that Christians make about the Bible.
You say it doesn't justify slavery.
Others have said that it does.
Why is your interpretation correct, and all who disagree wrong?

The Orthodox put great importance on apostolic tradition. So, one just needs to read the early Church Fathers to know. If you would like me to narrow the reading list down a bit for you, please let me know

 

[McBell]

I'm neither right nor wrong.
I only observe claims that Christians make about the Bible.
You say it doesn't justify slavery.
Others have said that it does.
Why is your interpretation correct, and all who disagree wrong?

um...
because the ones who used the bible to justify slavery lost?

 

[McBell]

I hold them only to the standard they claim for themselves.

This becomes a huge problem when the standards they claim look nothing like the standards they practice.

 

[F1fan]

I'm not from Louisianna, I'm not part of the effort, nor is it my money that's funding the movement. I do support what they are doing.

Why do you support them doing acts that violate their state and the national constitution?

This is not in dispute. The governor even admitted they want it to end up in the SCOTUS, and surely this is the same reason why conservatives have brought cases that could be overturned, as Roe v Wade was.

You'll need to ask someone from that area, specifically. I wouldn't pretend to be able to answer this one for them.

I'm asking you. You say you support them even though it's against the constitution.

My thoughts are: It's their state, their choice and their cause.

Yet they can't go against their own constitution, nor the national one. They would have to work towards changing the US constitution first, then change the LA constitution next. They hope to get the SCOTUS to do another liberally crafted interpretation that allows a state to influence students with religious symbols. I hope some blue state will offset this act with a bill that forcrs schools to post Hindu, or Muslim sayings in all classrooms and let's see how enthustic far right wing Christians are about this.

It doesn't affect me where I live, yet it has an impact, which I approve.

Yet their aim is to get this case in front of the SCOTUS, so unless you aren't in the USA this is relevant to all of us eventually.

You bring up performance rankings and I wonder if you've ever been to the bayous? My guess is life there is a job in and of itself.

The tradition of impoverished areas seems to resist modernization. I'm not very familiar with the most impoverished areas of the former confederate states but I am aware there is severe needs. Many poor states need federal aid to help fund the needs of their students, and that is an obligation the federal government has to each US citizen.