Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman and his brother fired and escorted out of White House.

[Lyndon]

Supposedly due to gossip and bad mouthing Trump while on duty. Which, if true, is grounds for dismissal.

Only in a dictatorship!!

 

[Stevicus]

Autocrats, fascists, and other tyrants all tend to purge if they can get away with it, and now we see this being played out here in the States. But since Trump so much loves former KGB head Vladimir Putin and other "strong leaders", is there really any surprise that Trump would also do this?

And it's gonna likely get worse because he's now emboldened so as to seek revenge against certain people and even a member(s) of their family, like Alexander's brother.

I think too many people are taking our representative democracy for granted to the point of not realizing how much of a danger we may be in store for, and it could be all coming to a head after the election.

I'm not sure what to predict at this point, but I continue to wonder about the disarray and continued ineptitude of the Democratic Party. I certainly don't take our representative democracy for granted, but I also know that it takes the people, along with certain individuals of a certain stature to act as the people's representatives, to actually make it work.

For me, I guess I've had such a long-term cynical view towards government and politics in general that I felt we were setting ourselves up for the very danger you speak of.

On the other hand, I don't think this gives Trump carte blanche to do whatever he wants. But even if he did, we the people might expect that there would be someone at a high level of power to stop him if he did something truly outlandish.

 

[sooda]

Ay least he’s didn’t completely lose his job... yet.

Jeff Mason on Twitter

GOP senators defend Trump's firing of impeachment witnesses: They weren't "loyal" http://hill.cm/IfQ6WnO

The Hill on Twitter

 

[sooda]

Only in a dictatorship!!

Loyalty to an individual would be in the case of a monarchy or dictatorship. The US is a republic and the government and people should be loyal to the Constitution and@the country.

 

[Shad]

Only in a dictatorship!!

Wrong. Both are grounds for dismissal in the private sector as well. Go bad mouth your boss and see what happens. General have be dismissed for bad mouthing a POTUS and going against POTUS policy. See; MacArthur

 

[Shad]

Loyalty to an individual would be in the case of a monarchy or dictatorship. The US is a republic and the government and people should be loyal to the Constitution and@the country.

If a person does not like the boss they are working for ask for reassignment or resign. Gossip and bad mouthing your boss are grounds for dismiss in all types of jobs.

 

[sooda]

Wrong. Both are grounds for dismissal in the private sector as well. Go bad mouth your boss and see what happens. General have be dismissed for bad mouthing a POTUS and going against POTUS policy. See; MacArthur

Their first loyalty is to their country and the Constitution. Trump is indicted for obstruction, intimidation and lying. No one is obliged to cover up such high crimes and misdemeanors.

 

[Shad]

Their first loyalty is to their country and the Constitution.

They can resign or ask for reassignment if they can not meet that obligation under this POTUS. They serve at the pleasure of POTUS not their own whims. Plenty of people that did nothing are replaced all the time after an election. I hear no one complaining about that. Obama replaced thousands of employees. Yawn.

Trump is indicted for obstruction, intimidation and lying.

Acquitted in the Senate.

No one is obliged to cover up such high crimes and misdemeanors.

No has a right to a job. Take a stand and resign. Next!

 

[Lyndon]

Do you get a warm fuzzy feeling when you defend that POS POTUS??

 

[sooda]

They can resign or ask for reassignment if they can not meet that obligation under this POTUS. They serve at the pleasure of POTUS not their own whims. Plenty of people that did nothing are replaced all the time after an election. I hear no one complaining about that. Obama replaced thousands of employees. Yawn.



Acquitted in the Senate.



No has a right to a job. Take a stand and resign. Next!

Then write it into the military code.. So a soldier is required to cover up criminal activity.

 

[Stevicus]

Loyalty to an individual would be in the case of a monarchy or dictatorship. The US is a republic and the government and people should be loyal to the Constitution and@the country.

"Should be," perhaps, but not always. That's part of the problem when people focus on individual politicians instead of issues and ideas. It's not just a matter of loyalty to an individual, but also opposition to an individual.

A lot of it is the result of media trying to make news more exciting and interesting to gain viewers. Dry, intellectual discussions about issues and ideas are booooring, so they have to spice it up with more juicy gossip and catchy soundbites.

And people wonder why the quality of politics and rhetoric have degenerated so badly in recent years, but we pretty much set ourselves up for it. Over the course of my life, since the 1970s, it seems as though the Powers That Be have purposely worked to dumb down America. The education system has declined. Our popular culture seems to be going in a direction where everything is reduced to the lowest common denominator.

I've seen it during my life, and I've encountered many others who have made the same observation: "Things are pretty messed up." But a lot of people just never really cared all that much. Most people just want what they want for themselves, and don't care about anyone else or even the country as a whole. NIMBYs, narcissists, and nincompoops.

I don't think we're in any real danger of becoming a dictatorship, but if there are any thoughts about the possibility, it may be due to the long-term effects of neglect, complacency, and apathy.

 

[sooda]

"Should be," perhaps, but not always. That's part of the problem when people focus on individual politicians instead of issues and ideas. It's not just a matter of loyalty to an individual, but also opposition to an individual.

A lot of it is the result of media trying to make news more exciting and interesting to gain viewers. Dry, intellectual discussions about issues and ideas are booooring, so they have to spice it up with more juicy gossip and catchy soundbites.

And people wonder why the quality of politics and rhetoric have degenerated so badly in recent years, but we pretty much set ourselves up for it. Over the course of my life, since the 1970s, it seems as though the Powers That Be have purposely worked to dumb down America. The education system has declined. Our popular culture seems to be going in a direction where everything is reduced to the lowest common denominator.

I've seen it during my life, and I've encountered many others who have made the same observation: "Things are pretty messed up." But a lot of people just never really cared all that much. Most people just want what they want for themselves, and don't care about anyone else or even the country as a whole. NIMBYs, narcissists, and nincompoops.

I don't think we're in any real danger of becoming a dictatorship, but if there are any thoughts about the possibility, it may be due to the long-term effects of neglect, complacency, and apathy.

Dumbing down of America?? Yep. That's how we got a stupid scumbag like Trump.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Look up his testimony on C-span. He went to a few NSC lawyers then talked to the whistle blower who obvious blew the whistle.

Alexander Vindman | C-SPAN.org
WATCH: Impeachment Hearing with Lt. Col. Vindman and Pence Aide

The first is a general link as c-span split up the whole hearing into specifics from opening statement to different question. The 2nd link is the hearing when he was present.

First of all, talking to NSC lawyers clearly is not leaking. Right?

Secondly, apart from NSC lawyers, Vindman testified that he only spoke to two other people about the July 25 call: George Kent, and an unnamed CIA officer. Both of whom, he says, have security clearances and appropriate need-to-know. That is not the same as “leaking”, right?

Sources:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/02/10/lindsey-grahams-tarring-alexander-vindman/

https://www.vox.com/2019/11/19/20972542/vindman-nunes-whistleblower-impeachment-hearing

Vindman's view of QPQ from the call was his opinion as per his testimony. Obviously the WH disagrees with his opinion thus questions his judgement. Ergo a part of the reason for his removal.

Vindman’s view was that the call was “not appropriate” - I believe those were his words. There is no evidence that the WH as a whole, rather than Trump specifically, even disagrees with that view. Most employers who care about ethics and making sound decisions provide appropriate channels through which concerned employees can escalate concerns, and don’t retaliate against employees who raise such concerns because you don’t want to encourage a culture of silence / not speaking up. Trump isn’t interested in any of that, he’d rather purge and be surrounded by “yes men” - precisely as John Kelly feared.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Wrong. Both are grounds for dismissal in the private sector as well. Go bad mouth your boss and see what happens. General have be dismissed for bad mouthing a POTUS and going against POTUS policy. See; MacArthur

The July 25 call wasn’t about “policy” it was a legitimate ethical concern shared by many involved. Go retaliate against an employee for submitting a legitimate concern to the company’s general counsel, or for telling HR they thought the boss may have crossed the line with a female employee and see what happens.

Totally agree with you that officials serve at the pleasure of the president. However this demonstrates that his pleasure is not about surrounding himself with people who will help execute sound and ethical policy, but that he wants a bunch of “yes men” as John Kelly feared. And here we are.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Supposedly due to gossip and bad mouthing Trump while on duty. Which, if true, is grounds for dismissal.

Uh huh.

So basically, Trump is a second grader.

 

[SkepticThinker]

They can resign or ask for reassignment if they can not meet that obligation under this POTUS. They serve at the pleasure of POTUS not their own whims. Plenty of people that did nothing are replaced all the time after an election. I hear no one complaining about that. Obama replaced thousands of employees. Yawn.



Acquitted in the Senate.



No has a right to a job. Take a stand and resign. Next!

Of course you don't hear about that, because that's the normal way that it's done.

As usual, Trump's actions are unusual, vindictive, and unprecedented. But for some reason, we're all just continuing on like he's the normal one. It's insane.

 

[metis]

So basically, Trump is a second grader.

He got double-promoted? We gotta check that school district out for sure.

 

[Shad]

Of course you don't hear about that, because that's the normal way that it's done.

As usual, Trump's actions are unusual, vindictive, and unprecedented. But for some reason, we're all just continuing on like he's the normal one. It's insane.

Projection. Vindman messed up. His problem

You seem oblivious to how maintaining employment works.

 

[Shad]

Uh huh.

So basically, Trump is a second grader.

Nope as both are grounds for dismissal in private and public jobs.

 

[Shad]

The July 25 call wasn’t about “policy” it was a legitimate ethical concern shared by many involved.

Opinion

Go retaliate against an employee for submitting a legitimate concern to the company’s general counsel, or for telling HR they thought the boss may have crossed the line with a female employee and see what happens.

Vindman made a choice to leak instead of being a whistle blower thus had no protection. His judgement became questionable thus is grounds for dismissal.

Totally agree with you that officials serve at the pleasure of the president. However this demonstrates that his pleasure is not about surrounding himself with people who will help execute sound and ethical policy, but that he wants a bunch of “yes men” as John Kelly feared. And here we are.

POTUS replace hundreds to thousands of staff every election. Yawn.

Projection.