Not so fast my friend... that second statement needs substantiation.
Consider; prayer is an attempt at communion with the divine rather than an attempt to manifest change through psychological manipulation.
Christian has a point.
I don´t think that is paganism, but I wouldn´t separate the prayer Jesus taught from magic neither.
First, Jesus said we should ask what we need from God. Ask and you shall receive.
Now about the prayer:
Jesus propose a bodily ritual (putting our hands together) and specific words that most be said to acomplish a goal (which is understood in the words) :
Our Father
That are in Heaven
Holy be thy name (This part is mere evokation)
Your kingdom come (now we are asking for something)
Your will be done in earth as it is in Heaven (asking again)
Give us today our daily bread (again, asking)
Forgive our tresspasses the same way we forgive traspasses of others (a request again, which also comprehends a practice for the request to be effective, as many magic rituals have)
And don´t let us fall in temptation (again, request...)
and rid us from evil (practicaly, what is called in magic as a "banishing" but specificaly of evil spirits)
In the name of the Father, the son and the Holy Spirit(invoking powerful names and "in the names ofs" is very popular in magic too)
Amen (closer)
So just that prayer is still magic.
Christian praying is more like begging, where as the magic I employ is more like commanding and making things manifest through my own strength. Christians are at the mercy of their god while I am at the mercy of my own ability. though The Powers of Darkness or whatever you want to call them are willing to assist me. In a way daemons and the spirits of the dead help us with magic because they act as messengers of our will. We create the package (spell) and the spirits take it to its destination for us.
If you had no body and could pretty much only mess around with people, wouldn't it be a good break to deliver the energies and emotions to the destination just to see what happens? I imagine the dead get very bored at times.
I'm really not joking that much either. What I am trying to contrast is that ritual magic that has all the trappings and intense emotion relies on YOUR skill, as opposed to you being at the mercy of another being that has to do all the heavy lifting for desires it really doesn't care for.
It's like if your friend asked you to make a gift for his lover and then deliver it to her. That would be Christian praying. Now if your friend made the gift himself and said "give this to my girl please" then all you have to do is take it and give it to her. No heavy lifting for you, the deliverer.
This is the difference between magic and praying. Praying is watered-down and weak magic because you are relying on gods and spirits who really don't care to hand you everything when instead you should be doing it yourself.
Now if a lot of Christians can get together, and if their desire is strong enough and their 'faith' unwavering, through the fantasizing of their loved one being healed or whatever, they can unwittingly practice a form of cermonial/ritual magic. Though they often do not realize it. It's hit and miss with that kind of praying. Though if they hit when their respective spirits/god carry out the package of will so to speak, it can hit hard and fast.
This view has many consequences. For example it says that a lot of spirits are indifferent. Indeed, losing your body only to float around the earth can be quite dull I would imagine for some. It also means that spirits and gods want us to work for what we want, instead of asking like a spoiled rich kid who won't work for his change.
Though someone mentioned prayer as a meditative technique to connect to their god. I find this a very wise piece of knowledge that many seem to overlook. I've connected with my own cosmic god (The Darkness, not satan to be clear) a few times in fleeting mediation, and the passage of time seems to go on forever even when its a few seconds and there is utter bliss and I feel well rested.
Such things can be very potent and refreshing. My mind was totally clear, completely and utterly and on the edge of lucid sleep. The only thing in my mind was the raw sensory input from hearing and feel. Nothing else at all.
