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Make It Compulsory to teach Gen 9:1 to 9:19 In All Abrahamic, Schools, Mosques Synagogues & Church
- Thread starter genesis9
- Start date
This is a pretty good illustration of why I would object to it being compulsory education in secular schools.
That is not the way I would interpret the verse. You and whatever religious institutions are free to interpret it any way you want. But forcing kids to learn your interpretation is not gonna fly. If parents want their children taught about religion that is fine. There are plenty of opportunities.
Frankly I wish basic Bible literacy could be taught in schools. Even religious kids often grow up remarkably ignorant to one of the most fundamental works in the western world. But it can't be done for an assortment of reasons.
Tom
Neo Deist
Th.D. & D.Div. h.c.
Yes but...first they need to fluent with the Hebrew language and that ancient culture, in order to understand the true context of said verses.
Augustus
…
I think that religious education should be taught in all schools. Religions are such a major part of our history, and still play such an important part in modernity that it should be compulsory. Even non-religious people should know about religions as their ethical and moral codes are still largely grounded in religious concepts.
An education system that doesn't teach about religions is not doing its job properly.
It should be taught from a historical and philosophical perspective though, rather than as religious advocacy.
An education system that doesn't teach about religions is not doing its job properly.
It should be taught from a historical and philosophical perspective though, rather than as religious advocacy.
rosends
Well-Known Member
I know this is probably a topic for a different thread but I am curious how you mean this.
And I think it should also be taught scientifically -- in the sense that the psychological, biological, and evolutionary origins of religiosity should be explored.
Pretty witty. I don't much agree with your views, but I like your wit. Welcome to RF.
genesis9
God All_a_us.
The Council of Nicaea were most keen to preserve texts closest to Old Testament teachings.
I'm afraid that is a risible statement. We all know the Bible is historically innacurate so then you go and set up some complex dedusctive resoning/observation test. What would be the point, what is the point. We've looked at the thing for 2000 years . What is it we are looking for?
Thanks for the warm welcome. Nice forum
genesis9
God All_a_us.
Actually a point I'd like to make is that you don't analyse the Bible scientifically, neither should you look for the meanings behind each word, not in my opinion anyway.When you read the Bible you are like Bruce Lee, you feeeeeeeeeeeeel the Deity, you don't think it. Actually that is not a flippant point, its at the very heart of it. For Bruce Lee read his philosophers Lao-tse Suzuki
Read them like that
Chapter 9
[9:1] God blessed Noah and his sons, and said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth. [9:2] The fear and dread of you shall rest on every animal of the earth, and on every bird of the air, on everything that creeps on the ground, and on all the fish of the sea; into your hand they are delivered. [9:3] Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you; and just as I gave you the green plants, I give you everything. [9:4] Only, you shall not eat flesh with its life, that is, its blood. [9:5] For your own lifeblood I will surely require a reckoning: from every animal I will require it and from human beings, each one for the blood of another, I will require a reckoning for human life. [9:6] Whoever sheds the blood of a human, by a human shall that person's blood be shed; for in his own image God made humankind. [9:7] And you, be fruitful and multiply, abound on the earth and multiply in it." [9:8] Then God said to Noah and to his sons with him, [9:9] "As for me, I am establishing my covenant with you and your
descendants after you, [9:10] and with every living creature that is with you, the birds, the domestic animals, and every animal of the earth with you, as many as came out of the ark. [9:11] I establish my covenant with you, that never again shall all flesh be cut off by the waters of a flood, and never again shall there be a flood to destroy the earth." [9:12] God said, "This is the sign of the covenant that I make between me and you and every living creature that is with you, for all future generations: [9:13] I have set my bow in the clouds, and it shall be a sign of the covenant between me and the earth. [9:14] When I bring clouds over the earth and the bow is seen in the clouds, [9:15] I will remember my covenant that is between me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and the waters shall never again become a flood to destroy all flesh. [9:16] When the bow is in the clouds, I will see it and remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is on the earth." [9:17] God said to Noah, "This is the sign of the covenant that I have established between me and all flesh that is on the earth." [9:18] The sons of Noah who went out of the ark were Shem, Ham, and Japheth. Ham was the father of Canaan. [9:19] These three were the sons of Noah; and from these the whole earth was peopled.
Who'd argue with that?? i defy any religion to refuse to teach it/add it to sermons. It should also be taught in school assemblies in RE classes etc ...In my opinion of course
Read them like that
Chapter 9
[9:1] God blessed Noah and his sons, and said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth. [9:2] The fear and dread of you shall rest on every animal of the earth, and on every bird of the air, on everything that creeps on the ground, and on all the fish of the sea; into your hand they are delivered. [9:3] Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you; and just as I gave you the green plants, I give you everything. [9:4] Only, you shall not eat flesh with its life, that is, its blood. [9:5] For your own lifeblood I will surely require a reckoning: from every animal I will require it and from human beings, each one for the blood of another, I will require a reckoning for human life. [9:6] Whoever sheds the blood of a human, by a human shall that person's blood be shed; for in his own image God made humankind. [9:7] And you, be fruitful and multiply, abound on the earth and multiply in it." [9:8] Then God said to Noah and to his sons with him, [9:9] "As for me, I am establishing my covenant with you and your
descendants after you, [9:10] and with every living creature that is with you, the birds, the domestic animals, and every animal of the earth with you, as many as came out of the ark. [9:11] I establish my covenant with you, that never again shall all flesh be cut off by the waters of a flood, and never again shall there be a flood to destroy the earth." [9:12] God said, "This is the sign of the covenant that I make between me and you and every living creature that is with you, for all future generations: [9:13] I have set my bow in the clouds, and it shall be a sign of the covenant between me and the earth. [9:14] When I bring clouds over the earth and the bow is seen in the clouds, [9:15] I will remember my covenant that is between me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and the waters shall never again become a flood to destroy all flesh. [9:16] When the bow is in the clouds, I will see it and remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is on the earth." [9:17] God said to Noah, "This is the sign of the covenant that I have established between me and all flesh that is on the earth." [9:18] The sons of Noah who went out of the ark were Shem, Ham, and Japheth. Ham was the father of Canaan. [9:19] These three were the sons of Noah; and from these the whole earth was peopled.
Who'd argue with that?? i defy any religion to refuse to teach it/add it to sermons. It should also be taught in school assemblies in RE classes etc ...In my opinion of course
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leibowde84
Veteran Member
I guess it would depend in what context it was taught. Including the Bible in literary classes is a must, imho, as it truly shaped the way that Western Literature came about historically. But, it isn't fact, and no child should be indoctrinated with the false notion that it is. It is a poetic chapter of the Bible, not meant to be taken literally, and it is not supported by verifiable evidence. Further, it would show a preference to Abrahamic traditions. Children should be enlightened to the plethora of different religious options out there and be encouraged to choose for themselves. If Genesis is included, but creation texts from other religious traditions are not, that would be inappropriate.
Honestly, I think the only reasonable thing to do is to keep religious texts out of the classroom, as once one is allowed, all the others must be included as well. concentration on science, philosophy, ethics, history, art, music, literature, etc. should be the focus of education ... not religious beliefs.
leibowde84
Veteran Member
You are forgetting the rising population of people that have no belief in God at all. It is wrong to teach scripture as fact in the public forum. And, you have a major problem with assumptions. Just because the doctrine of a faith agrees with Genesis, doesn't mean that adherents to that faith would be OK with it being taught in publicly funded institutions.
rosends
Well-Known Member
We'll have to agree to disagree on exactly what happened at the Council and whether the teachings established there have any resemblance to Tanach teachings.
genesis9
God All_a_us.
Good its off-topic anyway as per the question on that issue I tried to answer.
i note you are Jewish. I presume the Chief Rabbis office would have no issue with my petition. What is your personal opinion?
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genesis9
God All_a_us.
I
Sorry I missed your post . Is it your verse to interpret, it certainly is mine being an orthodox Jew for 40 years, before I left. I agree with you about interpretation but really 9:1-9:7 can't mean a lot else. How else would I interpret Gods blessing to all ?
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
Basically it one only take one person to file suit, and then it is the Supreme Court that would then rule based on what's in the Constitution, and that can be found in the 1st Amendment's "Establishment Clause". U.S. law works somewhat differently than U.K. law on matters such as this.
Yes, it is my verse to interpret. Your religious background doesn't give you any special rights to teach other people's children your interpretation.
This is a good illustration of yet another reason to avoid teaching religion in secular schools. You believe that your understanding of scripture is superior to mine. Someone who has another one might well think that theirs is superior to yours. You might justifiably object to a teacher using another interpretation for your child's "compulsory education".
The only way to avoid religious people messing up the school system is to leave religion out of the curriculum.
Tom
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
I would object to the above being taught in any public school setting as it is nothing but an attempt to jam specific religious teachings down the throats of children. With the Flood narrative, there are various way that it can be interpreted and applied. Children hearing that narrative are likely to ask questions, thus putting the instructor on the spot whereas (s)he would either have to bow out of the conversation, give his/her interpretations, or be theologically affluent enough to go through various ways it can be interpreted.
No, it's best to leave the churches, synagogues, and mosques do their job on such matters and leave the public schools alone with their own religious education.
leibowde84
Veteran Member
So, the Chief Rabbis magically speak for all Jews? Get real.
Here is the bottom line.
Schools only have limited time and resources. If they manage to teach the basics they're doing well.
Language and math and geography and science and history and literature and civics and basic skills, coupled with the joy of learning and critical thinking and a modicum of discipline and socialization.
The schools already have a huge task. Adding to that task, like expecting them to teach @genesis9 morals and interpretation of scriptures is not at all feasible.
Tom
Schools only have limited time and resources. If they manage to teach the basics they're doing well.
Language and math and geography and science and history and literature and civics and basic skills, coupled with the joy of learning and critical thinking and a modicum of discipline and socialization.
The schools already have a huge task. Adding to that task, like expecting them to teach @genesis9 morals and interpretation of scriptures is not at all feasible.
Tom