Make It Compulsory to teach Gen 9:1 to 9:19 In All Abrahamic, Schools, Mosques Synagogues & Church

[Aset's Flames]

Its a legal measure to get the teachers to teach it. Its a jewish/Christian/Muslim and Secular teaching. Hindus and Sikhs have little ground to object and of course it is easy to make provision to exclude certain religions and atheists if so wished. I mean it isn't impossible is it ?

As for Muslims I am sure practising Muslims would not refuse to allow their children to learn it,provided that they and all interested groups could input into how exactly the measure would be carried out



Teach what you like, I am not teaching I am showing. Again third and last time , you show me what the text means FYI teach and show are not the same but I'm trying to get a petition going here. if you think I think I am some sort of super-rabbi you are just wrong. I am genuinely frightened for my many children and here in the UK we don't have a big pond. I've studied this for 50 years. Doesn't mean I am right and I have kept my mouth shut for many many years. Now I feel I must speak. The feeling isn't a voice in my head, its me crying for my little son who may one day be at the wrong end of a gun, if we last that long. Not just my son, any child. So it is a petition. One needs to be set up in the USA too and I know just the man!




Rabbi, I was sure it was and I was but Tesla told me it wasn't and that i wasn't fit to say i was born into an Orthodox Community and let me say Allerton Shul, co-founded by my Grandfather gave me a beautiful introduction to Judaism as did Rabbis Rogosnitsky in Yeshiva , the most wonderful Rabbi Malcolm Malitz, lovely Rabbi Stanley Cohen, patient Rabbi Cedric Cohen, and many others,.



Its a secular verse too ie rainbows/animals/kids/Gods Blessing to all






........or Teslaed. No sorry doesn't work!

You blatantly ignored my retort like you ignore freedom.

 

[rosends]

Teach what you like, I am not teaching I am showing.

No, you are teaching. Because what you "show" is not identical with the literal meaning of the text you have to explain to people what you think it means. That is teaching.

Again third and last time , you show me what the text means

Why are you so fixated on my understanding of the text? I have already shown you how I can take the verses at face value and come to very different conclusions from that. You can ignore it if you want, but the bottom line is that I am not trying to get anyone to subscribe to my particular reading whereas you are intent on getting everyone to accept yours.

if you think I think I am some sort of super-rabbi you are just wrong.

Trust me...I don't think that.

 

[Neo Deist]

The story is in every culture . its as old as the hills. it obviously contains within it some truth or it would not have been so widely documented. As for whether vampires are real, well like the Flood story they appear in legends in cultures all over the world. But if you read genesis properly you'll find that God wiped them out when he wiped out the nephilim That is a sort of theological joke

That is because ancient cultures did not have running water. They had to live near their water sources. Yes they have flood stories, but not global disasters that left one chosen man and his family as the sole survivors. Incidentally, God found the only man worth saving was someone who wound up laying naked and drunk on a beach, after the fact?

 

[columbus]

I agree with the latter part of your comment regarding the use of the terms "Old Testament" and "New Testament", however it is not uncommon for committed, knowledgeable Jews across the denominational spectrum, especially when writing for, or speaking to, a mixed audience to use the terminology familiar to the most people. To be fair, the OP was not directing his post solely to Jews and I would give him a pass on this one.

I like Judaic culture and Judaism more than other Abrahamic traditions because it tends to be more ethically pragmatic.
RabbiO is unusually good at explaining that.
Tom

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Re-inforcing stereotype even in joke form just diverts attention away from the words and onto the Speakers.
Don't do it again please on here.

Stop whining ...

 

[leibowde84]

Re-inforcing stereotype even in joke form just diverts attention away from the words and onto the Speakers.
Don't do it again please on here.



Its not an Abrahamic text. Its before then. Its an echo of an older story and Hindus, Sikhs love it too So do I, so do you. As I keep repeating Its a pre-religious, socially cohesive non-violent passage that will do all kids the power of good to understand The Flood story pre-dates The Old Testament and it is also secular pre-Old testament and its secular, a secular teaching too You let your kids like Noah arks and rainbows or do you think that is dangerous as well If you go to the EU petition I have started ie on my sig read it and you'll get a better idea


Dont apply scientific logic to something that we feel with all our hearts when someone kills a child and then says its in the name of God. Scientific logic is irrelevant here but its very good for industrial/technological/medical / etc advances. Not what we need right now eh



You are right I do hold the key, we all do, lose the club membership mentality and start to read Gen 9 yet again like you were a kid. here let me help you
[9:6] Whoever sheds the blood of a human, by a human shall that person's blood be shed; for in his own image God made humankind. [9:7] And you, be fruitful and multiply, abound on the earth and multiply in it

Here's my transalation in real simple terms. My wife says I never explain properly so here goes. Whoever does the worst crime possible, he or she will be punished, by the ways of man. IF blood need to be spilled it will be at the hands of man, human, not I, God. You'll know how to be fair and right, humans, because you were made in my image. Please all of you sons of Noah, all of you descendants of the Earth, I the all-knowing all-loving God of everybody and everything bless you all..... be fruitful and multiply
I'll do the whole of Genesis9 for you if you still don't get it
If you and the American Jewish community do not get behind the motion on my sig or set up the same thing in the USA then you will be seen for what you/they really are ........AND its your verse!!

Are you suggesting teaching it as fact?

 

[Quintessence]

*** THREAD MOVED TO RELIGIOUS DEBATES ***​

 

[genesis9]

No, you are teaching. Because what you "show" is not identical with the literal meaning of the text you have to explain to people what you think it means. That is teaching.

Why are you so fixated on my understanding of the text? I have already shown you how I can take the verses at face value and come to very different conclusions from that. You can ignore it if you want, but the bottom line is that I am not trying to get anyone to subscribe to my particular reading whereas you are intent on getting everyone to accept yours.

Trust me...I don't think that.

Borttom Line (Note well RabbiO) You were asked three times to give me your definition because you said who was I to push my view (err a member of a free speaking society, you dont have to listen!!) and whilst you may be the nicest guy in the world, I don t have time to waste, so I prseed the ignore button ..Sorry

That is because ancient cultures did not have running water. They had to live near their water sources. Yes they have flood stories, but not global disasters that left one chosen man and his family as the sole survivors. Incidentally, God found the only man worth saving was someone who wound up laying naked and drunk on a beach, after the fact?

See where I say Genesis 9 ends ie with the blessing that a God, real or perceived made to the representation of the whole of humanity ie 9:19. The next story tastes and smells and sounds like a verse out of place a sort of back to humanity wine sex and moralities some don't need Religion to teach us these values and some do. Cut out what doesn't fit or makes you sneer, or that which does not compute with Gen9:6

I like Judaic culture and Judaism more than other Abrahamic traditions because it tends to be more ethically pragmatic.
RabbiO is unusually good at explaining that.
Tom

Stop whining ...

Stop deflecting

Are you suggesting teaching it as fact?

No chat, debate discussion at the end of RE lessons and church services, to be repeated, etc NOT TO BE LEARNT

 

[Aset's Flames]

Borttom Line (Note well RabbiO) You were asked three times to give me your definition because you said who was I to push my view (err a member of a free speaking society, you dont have to listen!!) and whilst you may be the nicest guy in the world, I don t have time to waste, so I prseed the ignore button ..Sorry


See where I say Genesis 9 ends ie with the blessing that a God, real or perceived made to the representation of the whole of humanity ie 9:19. The next story tastes and smells and sounds like a verse out of place a sort of back to humanity wine sex and moralities some don't need Religion to teach us these values and some do. Cut out what doesn't fit or makes you sneer, or that which does not compute with Gen9:6

Imagine that, you ignored my comment again and from an analysis from your post you seem to ignore all that exposes your ignorance.

You like ignorance becuase it is comfortable and the truth is to hard for you to face.

It is sad that you ended up this way but unlikely that you will change, I hope that when you are reborn that you will have a different viewpoint.

 

[leibowde84]

Borttom Line (Note well RabbiO) You were asked three times to give me your definition because you said who was I to push my view (err a member of a free speaking society, you dont have to listen!!) and whilst you may be the nicest guy in the world, I don t have time to waste, so I prseed the ignore button ..Sorry


See where I say Genesis 9 ends ie with the blessing that a God, real or perceived made to the representation of the whole of humanity ie 9:19. The next story tastes and smells and sounds like a verse out of place a sort of back to humanity wine sex and moralities some don't need Religion to teach us these values and some do. Cut out what doesn't fit or makes you sneer, or that which does not compute with Gen9:6

I would say that it is pretty absurd to teach kids Genesis 9 as fact when it is clearly not. A "fact" is something that is "indisputably the case". There is no independent, verifiable evidence supporting Genesis being fact, so to teach kids that it is would be dishonest.

 

[genesis9]

I didnt say as FACT

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I didnt say as FACT

All caps ... WOW

 

[leibowde84]

I didnt say as FACT

So, just as a literary text along the lines of the Odyssey or Shakespeare? That I would certainly be OK with. But, it would be akin to abuse to even suggest to kids it was true scientifically.

 

[Aset's Flames]

I didnt say as FACT

Then why do you wish to force teaching it at schools again?

 

[rosends]

So, just as a literary text along the lines of the Odyssey or Shakespeare? That I would certainly be OK with. But, it would be akin to abuse to even suggest to kids it was true scientifically.

If I taught it as literature, my goal as I would teach it would be to show a variety of interpretations and let students come to terms with in in a range of ways, thus watering down any prescriptive force, or allowing their behavior to be guided even in ways which contradict how other students might be guided by it.

 

[Servant_of_the_One1]

I did a petition to the UK Govt and it is live at the mo (In my personal name funfortunately The petition is to...

Make it law that Gen 9 -19 is taught/ read in schools and Abrahamic places of worship .

The text in question is is Genesis 9:1-9-19 inclusive ie God's first Blessing and Covenant to all humankind as represented by the sons of It is the first and only universal Blessing and Promise in the Bible This is what children should learn as it is acceptable to Jews, Christians & Muslims

This is about the teaching of a socially cohesive biblical text in schools and places of worship Muslims do believe that Allah wrote the Bible too and this is the text that makes it clear, we are all blessed by God, that we are all responsible for ourselves and each other in this world These chapters contain Gods first blessing to all peoples so important for what it did NOT say as for what it did say "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth .

Click this link to sign the petition:
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/112316/sponsors/Tu9WFHbYtJtag4hIMyL2

if you want to know how i arrived at this logic its a long road but I must make it clear that i am nowadays close to secular humanism. All the logic I have employed can be found here. its my attempt at fighting extremism. its childish and silly but if you follow the theological arguments you might just get to see where i'm coming from

Emerging bloody and attacked from other forum eg amazon religion i have to say I'm now ready for a proper debate and i defy any religious leader to give me any reason why they would refuse to do this given the current state of the World.
After all If a Muslim is taught to believe that Allah gave the Torah to the jews and the Gospel to the Christians why would they not accept the original promises and blessings of Allah in gen 9 ...After all

Sura 2 - Al-Baqara (MADINA):Verse 4 : Eng-Dr. Mohsin
And who believe in (the Qurân and the Sunnah)[] which has been sent down (revealed) to you (Muhammad Peace be upon him ) and in that which we sent down before [the Taurât (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel), etc.] and they believe with certainty in the Hereafter. (Resurrection, recompense of their good and bad deeds, Paradise

Sura 3 - Al-E-Imran (MADINA) : Verse 55 Translation : Eng-Dr. Mohsin
And (remember) when Allâh said: "O 'Īsā(Jesus)! I will take you and raise you to Myself and clear you [of the forged statement that 'Īsā(Jesus) is Allâh's son] of those who disbelieve, and I will make those who follow you (Monotheists, who worship none but Allâh) superior to those who disbelieve [in the Oneness of Allâh, or disbelieve in some of His Messengers, e.g. Muhammad SAW, 'Īsā(Jesus), Mûsâ (Moses), etc., or in His Holy Books, e.g. the Taurât (Torah), the Injeel (Gospel), the Qur'ân] till the Day of Resurrection[]. Then you will return to Me and I will judge between you in the matters in which you used to dispute."

Thanks but no thanks

 

[genesis9]

Then why do you wish to force teaching it at schools again?

Why not read the petition? On my sig then tell me

 

[Neo Deist]

Why not read the petition? On my sig then tell me

Out of some weird sense of curiosity, I went to the petition link. Wow, 1 supporter. You are well on your way.

Incidentally, if you took the time to proofread your work and cleaned up the grammatical errors, it might garner you more support. Maybe 2 people would sign it then!

 

[Tesla]

Genesis, How long has that bit about Nikola Tesla been in your petition?

 

[Treks]

..and here is the part you are not getting its not religious teaching!!!! Its a socially cohesive text that just so happens to be in our oldest relevant known text, which so happens to be a religious book. So what? Who's mentioning Jews or Christians? Do you want your kids to grow up in fear that God will punish them? Well then read Gen 9:6
[9:6] Whoever sheds the blood of a human, by a human shall that person's blood be shed; for in his own image God made humankind.
BY A H_U_M_A-N shall that person's etc etc ie there is no God here that punishes us even for the greatest of crimes,. that is up to us So for the final time it is not a religious teaching it is a beautiful socially cohesive chapter, stuck in a religious book. Its is jointly owned by Jew, Christian and Muslim and loved by secularists. I am saying take it out of the book and teach it in the classes and places of worship. I am sure Sikhs and Hindus would have no objection, and if they did I'm sure issues can be sorted

Sikhs would object; they have no concept of humans being made in God's "image", and shun the whole "eye for an eye" mentality that this verse seems to espouse.