Make It Compulsory to teach Gen 9:1 to 9:19 In All Abrahamic, Schools, Mosques Synagogues & Church

[rosends]

So what is your interpretation please? and you quoted your interpretation of the literal statement of the text, so you either can't think straight or you are being disingenuous I am not interested and will not respond to personal remarks eg arrogant If you think I am that's your ignorance

My interpretation is immaterial. I was pointing out the literal meaning of the words. You are positing a different understanding based on your personal interpretation which you think is what should be taught. You have put yourself in the same category as the "crusty" old men you want to avoid. If you can't see this then you can't think straight. You can feel free not to respond, but when you advocate that the world teaches something you invent because you have decided that it is correct, right, true and necessary then that is arrogance on your part. And BTW, no Jew who knows anything about his religion uses the phrase "Old Testament" willingly. And none uses the phrase "walk with God."

 

[Tesla]

....And BTW, no Jew who knows anything about his religion uses the phrase "Old Testament" willingly. And none uses the phrase "walk with God."

Can I get an "Amen"?

 

[genesis9]

I quizzed you because you made a statement that you have an orthodox background, and yet your mode of speech (or typing) is so far from orthodox mannerisms. It begs the question about just how orthodox your orthodox background was.

There is, after all, a very well-known problem within Judaism of people with little or no Jewish education joining offshoot movements, such as Messianic Judaism, and claiming orthodox heritage as a means of bolstering themselves in the Jewish pecking order. By doing this, they think they’re reinforcing the credentials of the movement they’ve joined, and their own reasoning for joining that movement.

I’m certainly not saying that this is what you are doing; I don’t know you. I just found it odd that you call it “Genesis” instead of “Bereishis" and you called it “old testament” instead of Tanach. I found it odd that you used the Christian style numbering system instead of the more traditional Jewish way of identifying a section by naming the parsha and then giving the pasuk.

And just in case you were curious:

Hagofen is for wine.

Ha-Adomah is for vegetables and fruits from the ground. –like a potato.

Mezonos is used for breads that have not had Challah taken. –like cake.

Challah without a wash cup can be wrapped in paper or foil so as not to be touched with your hands.

Allerton Synagogue Liverpool Conservative Judaism. Kept Kosher, went to Cheder, Talmud Torah Yeshiva, Shul every Shabbas, but I refused to go to maariv etc prayers so we were lapsing, . I dont speak like a Jew because I choose NOT to be one. and yes I knew what the words I used in my post meant or i wouldn't have used them and no I didn't know what specific blessing to use in your question
If I was truly interested in the "Jewish Pecking Order" (and I didn't know there was one tbh.), I would be concentrating on my customs, rites and Traditions instead of doing this . see below

You have taken the simple message of God's Blessing to every human, important for what it did NOT say and turned it into the Jewish Pecking Order Club or J-POC for short AND at the same time alienating all those others who want to love and be loved by the God of all in Gen 9:1 and 9:7 into "Messianic Jews are less worthy than Orthodox/... In your eyes??: Go on deny it!! Oh no its not my view you'll say despite the way you have spoken Its a disgrace you are a disgrace! (In the eyes of GOD no one is better than any other Jewish Atheist, whatever...learn that
The Jewish people were chosen by God to be the first religion to relegate their traditions, rules and customs, to where they belongjust that in favour of plastering all around their synagogues the words of Gen 9, your Gods very own words. Read them after every service teach them to your children then maybe we can have a look at your J-POC

Or if you prefer a more reasonable argument Chochum, then perhaps you'd like to tell me why any Christian, Muslim would join your Judaism is like a big family idea

 

[leibowde84]

Noit isn't not in this climate



No he does not


Oh really...well we haven't been doing and look what is happening now in IS

That is exactly what they do in the Islamic State, which makes this so ironic. They teach religious beliefs as if they are fact, and look at how dangerous that becomes.

 

[genesis9]

My interpretation is immaterial. I was pointing out the literal meaning of the words. You are positing a different understanding based on your personal interpretation which you think is what should be taught. You have put yourself in the same category as the "crusty" old men you want to avoid. If you can't see this then you can't think straight. You can feel free not to respond, but when you advocate that the world teaches something you invent because you have decided that it is correct, right, true and necessary, then that is arrogance on your part. And BTW, no Jew who knows anything about his religion uses the phrase "Old Testament" willingly. And none uses the phrase "walk with God."

You are more of a Jew than me. I'm not in the same category as the crusty old men because those Rabbonim have been dead for centuries and I am thinking in these times. Of course I know this is an interpretation, but everything is interpretable and secular humanists would NOT argue with my interpretation, so it aint that far off. Not only that, its socially cohesive and doesn't belong to Jews or Christians or Muslims its all of ours. If you cant see that then its you who cannot think straight. I note that you refuse to give your interpretation despite my asking twice. Why is this? What part don't you understand

Let me get one more thing straight My family name is Refson, My family on one side Rosenblatt I was as Jewish as you, but it seems and I am only guessing here that while you got stuck on your clever little discussions about what prayers to say for a crumb of bread stuck up a rabbi's nose, I was wondering how/why God got his First Blessing so wrong and why he suddenly decided that one tribe was better than another.
But despite all that, only The Jewish people hold the key to all this. BTW Gen 9 .

 

[genesis9]

That is exactly what they do in the Islamic State, which makes this so ironic. They teach religious beliefs as if they are fact, and look at how dangerous that becomes.

Its not ironic is it!! I wrote a free book, its on my signature, its "cover story" is that how to deprogramme such a brainwashed person" I say cover story because it uses religious argument to talk down an extremist . I've used it myself in the mildest of threats, so its not ironic. But your statement was also pretty inaccurate because its not a religious belief its a secular belief locked tightly, with no means of escape in a religious book, that is its weakness but also its great strength , because no Imam, Priest nor rabbi would refuse to recognize it and its meaning. PS its not just IS though is it that teach religious beliefs as if they were fact........its all religions.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

But despite all that, only The Jewish people hold the key to all this.

Oy vey! If this is any indication, I suspect that your free book is over-priced.

 

[leibowde84]

Its not ironic is it!! I wrote a free book, its on my signature, its "cover story" is that how to deprogramme such a brainwashed person" I say cover story because it uses religious argument to talk down an extremist . I've used it myself in the mildest of threats, so its not ironic. But your statement was also pretty inaccurate because its not a religious belief its a secular belief locked tightly, with no means of escape in a religious book, that is its weakness but also its great strength , because no Imam, Priest nor rabbi would refuse to recognize it and its meaning. PS its not just IS though is it that teach religious beliefs as if they were fact........its all religions.

Teaching religious beliefs as fact is harmful to children, imho. No matter what religion is in question too. And, Abrahamic faiths shouldn't have any kind of monopoly in education.

 

[leibowde84]

Its not ironic is it!! I wrote a free book, its on my signature, its "cover story" is that how to deprogramme such a brainwashed person" I say cover story because it uses religious argument to talk down an extremist . I've used it myself in the mildest of threats, so its not ironic. But your statement was also pretty inaccurate because its not a religious belief its a secular belief locked tightly, with no means of escape in a religious book, that is its weakness but also its great strength , because no Imam, Priest nor rabbi would refuse to recognize it and its meaning. PS its not just IS though is it that teach religious beliefs as if they were fact........its all religions.

How can you consider what is described in Genesis as anything other than a religious belief? It is based on revelation rather than verifiable evidence, is it not?

 

[rosends]

You are more of a Jew than me.

Such a thing is impossible.

I'm not in the same category as the crusty old men because those Rabbonim have been dead for centuries and I am thinking in these times.

So new is necessarily better?

Of course I know this is an interpretation, but everything is interpretable and secular humanists would NOT argue with my interpretation, so it aint that far off. Not only that, its socially cohesive and doesn't belong to Jews or Christians or Muslims its all of ours.

At best it belongs to theists and really, only to Abrahamic theists, which excludes a huge chunk of the world. A secular humanist might accept certain aspects of certain interpretations of that text. That is a far cry from making this universally acceptable. Sorry you can't see that.

I note that you refuse to give your interpretation despite my asking twice. Why is this?

Because my interpretation is irrelevant and isn't something I am trying to impose on every school and temple. You are.

Let me get one more thing straight My family name is Refson, My family on one side Rosenblatt I was as Jewish as you, but it seems and I am only guessing here that while you got stuck on your clever little discussions about what prayers to say for a crumb of bread stuck up a rabbi's nose, I was wondering how/why God got his First Blessing so wrong and why he suddenly decided that one tribe was better than another.

Let me get something straight -- I don't care who you are or why you have personally decided that Judaism isn't for you. You are not important to me and your anger and lack of understanding about religion means nothing to me. Save it for someone in the real world who wants to hear you vent. My concern is about your belief that your particular vision of the interpretation of a religious text is so right and proper that everyone should subscribe to your view. You are insisting that only YOU hold the key to that section.

 

[Tesla]

Allerton Synagogue Liverpool Conservative Judaism. Kept Kosher, went to Cheder, Talmud Torah Yeshiva, Shul every Shabbas, but I refused to go to maariv etc prayers so we were lapsing, . I dont speak like a Jew because I choose NOT to be one. and yes I knew what the words I used in my post meant or i wouldn't have used them and no I didn't know what specific blessing to use in your question

If I was truly interested in the "Jewish Pecking Order" (and I didn't know there was one tbh.), I would be concentrating on my customs, rites and Traditions instead of doing this . see below

Okay, so you’re not from an orthodox background, you’re from a conservative background. If you had come from an Orthodox background, the expectation would have been that you would daven Shacharis, Mincha and Maariv every day, not just on Shabbat. Your parents would have had you doing this from the time you were 3, and you would have grown up with it. If you had still come out of Orthodoxy, then at least you’d be able to claim an authentic orthodox background.

It’s perfectly okay if you don’t come from an Orthodox background. Most Jews these days don’t. I came from a reformed background, and I’ve worked very hard to obtain the education that I have now. Please understand that it is offensive when others claim to have this upbringing but cannot answer the most basic of questions, and then they try to use their exaggerated background stories to bolster their credibility to people who wouldn’t otherwise be able to tell the difference. You diminish my hard work with this characterization.

You have taken the simple message of God's Blessing to every human, important for what it did NOT say and turned it into the Jewish Pecking Order Club or J-POC for short AND at the same time alienating all those others who want to love and be loved by the God of all in Gen 9:1 and 9:7 into "Messianic Jews are less worthy than Orthodox/... In your eyes??: Go on deny it!! Oh no its not my view you'll say despite the way you have spoken Its a disgrace you are a disgrace! (In the eyes of GOD no one is better than any other Jewish Atheist, whatever...learn that

The “Jewish pecking order” exists because other people perceive Orthodoxy as being “more authentic”. If they align themselves with this movement, then they must be justified in their new, non-Jewish religious ideas. So many people turn those few times they had a proper kosher Pesach at their observant Aunt Hinda’s house into justification for calling themselves Orthodox. I’ll never understand why they don’t just say, “I didn’t have a meaningful experience within Judaism, so I sought religion elsewhere.”

No, they have to be orthodox! They have to display that their decision to leave Judaism was based on life-long study of Torah which resulted in undeniable evidence that supports whatever new religious movement they’ve decided to join.

You are the one who inflated your background, not me. I just asked you to answer a very basic question, akin to being like, “Which food is dessert: bread or birthday cake?”

The Jewish people were chosen by God to be the first religion to relegate their traditions, rules and customs, to where they belongjust that in favour of plastering all around their synagogues the words of Gen 9, your Gods very own words. Read them after every service teach them to your children then maybe we can have a look at your J-POC

Or if you prefer a more reasonable argument Chochum, then perhaps you'd like to tell me why any Christian, Muslim would join your Judaism is like a big family idea

I don’t know what you mean by relegating our traditions, rules and customs. We still very much have these things ingrained in Jewish culture.

Good question! There is no reason for a non-Jew to join Judaism. Judaism offers them nothing that they cannot achieve by being good Gentiles who follow the seven laws of Noah. No conversion necessary.

-The problem here is that you believe that you understand Judaism better than practicing Jews do. Not just orthodoxy, but Judaism as a whole. If you cannot understand my religion, my people, my customs, and my traditions, then where do you come off , trying to step into my shul or my yeshiva (either in person, or through any legislation), and tell my Rabbis and my people that we’re studying Torah incorrectly, and that we have to alter +3500 years of Jewish study and belief to satiate your agenda?

You should very properly expect some push-back.

 

[Aset's Flames]

I did a petition to the UK Govt and it is live at the mo (In my personal name funfortunately The petition is to...

Make it law that Gen 9 -19 is taught/ read in schools and Abrahamic places of worship .

The text in question is is Genesis 9:1-9-19 inclusive ie God's first Blessing and Covenant to all humankind as represented by the sons of It is the first and only universal Blessing and Promise in the Bible This is what children should learn as it is acceptable to Jews, Christians & Muslims

This is about the teaching of a socially cohesive biblical text in schools and places of worship Muslims do believe that Allah wrote the Bible too and this is the text that makes it clear, we are all blessed by God, that we are all responsible for ourselves and each other in this world These chapters contain Gods first blessing to all peoples so important for what it did NOT say as for what it did say "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth .

Click this link to sign the petition:
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/112316/sponsors/Tu9WFHbYtJtag4hIMyL2

if you want to know how i arrived at this logic its a long road but I must make it clear that i am nowadays close to secular humanism. All the logic I have employed can be found here. its my attempt at fighting extremism. its childish and silly but if you follow the theological arguments you might just get to see where i'm coming from

Emerging bloody and attacked from other forum eg amazon religion i have to say I'm now ready for a proper debate and i defy any religious leader to give me any reason why they would refuse to do this given the current state of the World.
After all If a Muslim is taught to believe that Allah gave the Torah to the jews and the Gospel to the Christians why would they not accept the original promises and blessings of Allah in gen 9 ...After all

Sura 2 - Al-Baqara (MADINA):Verse 4 : Eng-Dr. Mohsin
And who believe in (the Qurân and the Sunnah)[] which has been sent down (revealed) to you (Muhammad Peace be upon him ) and in that which we sent down before [the Taurât (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel), etc.] and they believe with certainty in the Hereafter. (Resurrection, recompense of their good and bad deeds, Paradise

Sura 3 - Al-E-Imran (MADINA) : Verse 55 Translation : Eng-Dr. Mohsin
And (remember) when Allâh said: "O 'Īsā(Jesus)! I will take you and raise you to Myself and clear you [of the forged statement that 'Īsā(Jesus) is Allâh's son] of those who disbelieve, and I will make those who follow you (Monotheists, who worship none but Allâh) superior to those who disbelieve [in the Oneness of Allâh, or disbelieve in some of His Messengers, e.g. Muhammad SAW, 'Īsā(Jesus), Mûsâ (Moses), etc., or in His Holy Books, e.g. the Taurât (Torah), the Injeel (Gospel), the Qur'ân] till the Day of Resurrection[]. Then you will return to Me and I will judge between you in the matters in which you used to dispute."

I would no sooner teach these to a child than I would teach that goblins are real.

What makes your relgion worthy to be part of the education system?

 

[Neo Deist]

...but actualy Christianity has been true to Old testament text

Judaism has no concept of Satan as the evil arch enemy of God, and the OT is their Bible, history and genealogy.
Christianity takes the OT and makes a different assumption.

Clearly someone is wrong.

 

[genesis9]

Oy vey! If this is any indication, I suspect that your free book is over-priced.

Re-inforcing stereotype even in joke form just diverts attention away from the words and onto the Speakers.
Don't do it again please on here.

Teaching religious beliefs as fact is harmful to children, imho. No matter what religion is in question too. And Abrahamic faiths shouldn't have any kind of monopoly in education.

Its not an Abrahamic text. Its before then. Its an echo of an older story and Hindus, Sikhs love it too So do I, so do you. As I keep repeating Its a pre-religious, socially cohesive non-violent passage that will do all kids the power of good to understand The Flood story pre-dates The Old Testament and it is also secular pre-Old testament and its secular, a secular teaching too You let your kids like Noah arks and rainbows or do you think that is dangerous as well If you go to the EU petition I have started ie on my sig read it and you'll get a better idea

How can you consider what is described in Genesis as anything other than a religious belief? It is based on revelation rather than verifiable evidence, is it not?

Dont apply scientific logic to something that we feel with all our hearts when someone kills a child and then says its in the name of God. Scientific logic is irrelevant here but its very good for industrial/technological/medical / etc advances. Not what we need right now eh

Such a thing is impossible.

So new is necessarily better?

At best it belongs to theists and really, only to Abrahamic theists, which excludes a huge chunk of the world. A secular humanist might accept certain aspects of certain interpretations of that text. That is a far cry from making this universally acceptable. Sorry you can't see that.

Because my interpretation is irrelevant and isn't something I am trying to impose on every school and temple. You are.
Let me get something straight -- I don't care who you are or why you have personally decided that Judaism isn't for you. You are not important to me and your anger and lack of understanding about religion means nothing to me. Save it for someone in the real world who wants to hear you vent. My concern is about your belief that your particular vision of the interpretation of a religious text is so right and proper that everyone should subscribe to your view. You are insisting that only YOU hold the key to that section.

You are right I do hold the key, we all do, lose the club membership mentality and start to read Gen 9 yet again like you were a kid. here let me help you
[9:6] Whoever sheds the blood of a human, by a human shall that person's blood be shed; for in his own image God made humankind. [9:7] And you, be fruitful and multiply, abound on the earth and multiply in it

Here's my transalation in real simple terms. My wife says I never explain properly so here goes. Whoever does the worst crime possible, he or she will be punished, by the ways of man. IF blood need to be spilled it will be at the hands of man, human, not I, God. You'll know how to be fair and right, humans, because you were made in my image. Please all of you sons of Noah, all of you descendants of the Earth, I the all-knowing all-loving God of everybody and everything bless you all..... be fruitful and multiply
I'll do the whole of Genesis9 for you if you still don't get it
If you and the American Jewish community do not get behind the motion on my sig or set up the same thing in the USA then you will be seen for what you/they really are ........AND its your verse!!

 

[genesis9]

Okay, so you’re not from an orthodox background, you’re from a conservative background. If you had come from an Orthodox background, the expectation would have been that you would daven Shacharis, Mincha and Maariv every day, not just on Shabbat. Your parents would have had you doing this from the time you were 3, and you would have grown up with it. If you had still come out of Orthodoxy, then at least you’d be able to claim an authentic orthodox background.

It’s perfectly okay if you don’t come from an Orthodox background. Most Jews these days don’t. I came from a reformed background, and I’ve worked very hard to obtain the education that I have now. Please understand that it is offensive when others claim to have this upbringing but cannot answer the most basic of questions, and then they try to use their exaggerated background stories to bolster their credibility to people who wouldn’t otherwise be able to tell the difference. You diminish my hard work with this characterization.

The “Jewish pecking order” exists because other people perceive Orthodoxy as being “more authentic”. If they align themselves with this movement, then they must be justified in their new, non-Jewish religious ideas. So many people turn those few times they had a proper kosher Pesach at their observant Aunt Hinda’s house into justification for calling themselves Orthodox. I’ll never understand why they don’t just say, “I didn’t have a meaningful experience within Judaism, so I sought religion elsewhere.”

No, they have to be orthodox! They have to display that their decision to leave Judaism was based on life-long study of Torah which resulted in undeniable evidence that supports whatever new religious movement they’ve decided to join.

You are the one who inflated your background, not me. I just asked you to answer a very basic question, akin to being like, “Which food is dessert: bread or birthday cake?”
-The problem here is that you believe that you understand Judaism better than practicing Jews do. Not just orthodoxy, but Judaism as a whole. If you cannot understand my religion, my people, my customs, and my traditions, then where do you come off , trying to step into my shul or my yeshiva (either in person, or through any legislation), and tell my Rabbis and my people that we’re studying Torah incorrectly, and that we have to alter +3500 years of Jewish study and belief to satiate your agenda?

You should very properly expect some push-back.

I live in the UK not the USA. In the UK my Great-Grandfather founded Allerton Synagogue
My father too went to the Jewish school and attended all prayers 3 times a day regularly with tephilim etc . I didnt want to do it because when I was 6 I read Gen 9 and found the only writing about God that is acceptable to ALL of Humanity. Didnt know it then of course.
Ergo as per my post I was born an orthodox Jew In the UK ? Well I think it does. Irrelevant anyways.

If you like you are more Jewish than me more holy, closer to God and that really does suit me . You have patronized and insulted me personally, by implying that I am a liar h but that is OK I'm not here to sell myself.
You said this "Please understand that it is offensive when others claim to have this upbringing etc etc . "

...and you diminish my character with your words when we are here to talk about
Make It Compulsory to teach Gen 9:1 to 9:19 In All Abrahamic, Schools, Mosques Synagogues & Church

But just in case you were wrong about my family's Orthodoxy or otherwise you add that I dont know enough/didnt learn hard enough/didn't spend long enough reciting to get anything out of Judaism, another poor guess.

Poor Tesla so in love with the custom and the TRADITION and the stories and the words of the famous rabbis but so immersed in the forest he hasn't realized that the path he walks leads nowhere. Lost like the Qabbalist who only when he puts down all the complex Tetragammaton stuff he reads, only when he walks away from it ....then and only then can he really see it for what it is, a red herring. BTW I bet not all Jews see you as Orthodox even with all your conversions (that was nasty)
Then Tesla said "
No, they have to be orthodox! They have to display that their decision to leave Judaism was based on life-long study of Torah which resulted in undeniable evidence that supports whatever new religious movement they’ve decided to join."

Rubbish, Rubbish Rubbish. Now you are telling me how I should make my own journey when all I was doing was asking you to make Gen 9 more prominent .

And I really like this one " You are the one who inflated your background, not me. I just asked you to answer a very basic question, akin to being like, “Which food is dessert: bread or birthday cake?” You have now shown other Jewish people that you too can tell lies . The clever trap spring loaded question you asked me (and I'll ask perhaps my cousin Rabbi Rosenblatt or perhaps Rabbi Refson Neve Yerushalayim whether or not the question you asked me was basic or not. So dont tell lies.

It was a trick question and no I couldn't answer answer it because I do not care about the subject. By your logic I and indeed everybody reading this forum can'T know God because me and everyone else here couldn't answer a rabbinical question about blessings for bread.

Now I could play your game I could Google you ask you what you are selling. Should we ask you how much you make out of your ministeries. Why not? On the UK forum here I have been batted all over the place BUT I'm not making any living out of this, don't want to. However to do such a thing to you here in Public to assassinate your character imo would not be fruitful to self nor others so I'll not do it

Finally you say this "The problem here is that you believe that you understand Judaism better than practicing Jews do. Not just orthodoxy, but Judaism as a whole. If you cannot understand my religion, my people, my customs, and my traditions, then where do you come off , trying to step into my shul or my yeshiva (either in person, or through any legislation), and tell my Rabbis and my people that we’re studying Torah incorrectly, and that we have to alter +3500 years of Jewish study and belief to satiate your agenda?"

I do not understand Judaism better than practicing Jews do. After reading your words I thought to myself Genesis 9 cannot be a Jewish text . Noach cannot be a Jewish text . Why? because Tesla differentiated in his words Jew and Gentile whilst God (if God exists) blessed ALL equally Rabbi. Instead of filling your head with tradition and prayer, re-educate yourself. You alienate as many as you care for, in your Jewish Batting orders Club so you are irrelevant as is your opinion to anyone not Jewish
I don't want to know Judaism I don't want to brush up on my Parshot or whatever
Focus your mind on this Rabbi . How is your religion going to solve the mess that it equally with the other Abrahamic faiths have made ? Try Gen 9 Rabbi Or if you wish the rest of ALL those that God blessed to think that you have something more special than anyone else and we all know that you do, then Parshat Noach

I was going to end by saying that Yes The rabbis got it wrong and still do and yes after 3500 we are still slaughtering each other, but then I got that that little prod I always get when I'm winning an argument so I will say only that some Rabbis looked in the wrong places and taught the wrong thing and some looked in the right places and taught the right thing, but anybody at a glance can know what is from God and what is not... because you actually blaspheme when you even lead people into prayer if you want to play clever religious argument games with me.......... How so?
Gen 9:6
Parshat Noach
[9:6] Whoever sheds the blood of a human, by a human shall that person's blood be shed; for in his own image God made humankind. [9:7] And you, be fruitful and multiply, abound on the earth and multiply in it."
I'll spell it out again, only this time I'll write it as I feel it and I am allowed to feel it the same way as anybody else because God just told me I was made like him, in his image, not just in looks Oh no clever clever Rabbi BUT also in values ..so we don't need yours thanks!!
Here we go again ...yep my words, yep MY beliefs and YEP the only way to read it
Gen 9:6
Even if you do the very worst thing you can do, which is to kill someone, I'm not going to punish you, I do not need to ......You were made like me, so please be happy be fruitful (that is to self and others by definition)
But I know you won't get that Tesla you have the journey you have made to date, right into the thicket that is Judaism, when you had such a promising start. No I don't mean that. That would be mean.

Judaism has no concept of Satan as the evil arch enemy of God, and the OT is their Bible, history and genealogy.
Christianity takes the OT and makes a different assumption.

Clearly someone is wrong.

Correct. They misinterpreted the Adam and Eve snake story. I have it about right I think, but for now that is off-topic imo

 

[4consideration]

If you understand the words and true meaning of the verses you are discussing, perhaps you could try your hand at reading the forum rules, especially rule 10. Before enforcing a particular biblical interpretation on others, perhaps you could consider observing the rules of this place.

Just a thought.

 

[genesis9]

If you understand the words and true meaning of the verses you are discussing, perhaps you could try your hand at reading the forum rules, especially rule 10. Before enforcing a particular biblical interpretation on others, perhaps you could consider observing the rules of this place.

Just a thought.

You'll have to spell out for me what you mean. I've read Rule 10, you mean the 500 word Rule 10. tell me what I have done wrong and I'll stop doing it of course.

 

[rosends]

Here's my transalation in real simple terms. My wife says I never explain properly so here goes. Whoever does the worst crime possible, he or she will be punished, by the ways of man. IF blood need to be spilled it will be at the hands of man, human, not I, God. You'll know how to be fair and right, humans, because you were made in my image. Please all of you sons of Noah, all of you descendants of the Earth, I the all-knowing all-loving God of everybody and everything bless you all..... be fruitful and multiply
I'll do the whole of Genesis9 for you if you still don't get it
If you and the American Jewish community do not get behind the motion on my sig or set up the same thing in the USA then you will be seen for what you/they really are ........AND its your verse!!

OK, so here's a hypothetical. I just read your translation. I disagree with it. I want to teach this same passage but explain it very differently. is that acceptable? I want to go back to the source, in hebrew, and translate it according to what it says, without your mediation. Would that satisfy what you want?

If not, then you should be rethinking what you are asking for. if so, then people will not get the particular message you want them to.

 

[4consideration]

You'll have to spell out for me what you mean. I've read Rule 10, you mean the 500 word Rule 10. tell me what I have done wrong and I'll stop doing it of course.

What I meant was that debate is not allowed in DIRs. Not allowed by anyone.

Because... DIR locations are like a meeting place of those of like minds, and a sufficiently respectful tone is expected. DIRs are a location set aside from debate locations -- where people may discuss their own beliefs, but not attack that of others. Hostile tones, or threatening type language is just so outside of the "safe space" intention of the DIRs, it is disheartening to me to see it. To me, it's like seeing someone throw a rock at a church, temple, etc. You don't have to agree with other people, but the way I see it, this is the very worst place to actively disagree.

To me, this seems like an attack.

If you and the American Jewish community do not get behind the motion on my sig or set up the same thing in the USA then you will be seen for what you/they really are ........AND its your verse!!

edit: And...the entire thread strikes me as a political matter, where you are really looking for support for your petition -- and I don't think it is a religious matter, so I don't even think the subject belongs in a DIR.

 

[Neo Deist]

Correct. They misinterpreted the Adam and Eve snake story. I have it about right I think, but for now that is off-topic imo

Nah, I think they know their story better than we do.

That would be like me translating a Chinese history book into English, and then teaching a group of Chinese students about their history. I can only imagine they would snicker and shake their heads.