Man Who Was Shot Six Times Still Waiting for Surgery Due to the Overwhelming Number of COVID Cases

[We Never Know]

The man would ideally be in the ER and the COVID patient in ICU. They treat acute immediate problems first. If the covid person is stable they move on to those in need. Joint effort.

The man isn't in ER. He was shot a week ago. He is in the hospital, has a bed and a room. I doubt that surgeon's are tied up tending to covid pateients but staff needed to tend to him after surgery may be. Yet he has staff tending to him now. So I don't have any answers.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

That and hospitals can't turn people away. Sometimes if I have a seizure I tell ER not to take me to the hospital. If I do go I'm there for an hour wasting a bed someone else could have. There are a lot of reasons why beds aren't free but ideally severity comes first not whether you're a COVID patient or not.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

The man isn't in ER. He was shot a week ago. He is in the hospital, has a bed and a room. I doubt that surgeon's are tied up tending to covid pateients but staff needed to tend to him after surgery may be. Yet he has staff tending to him now. So I don't have any answers.

It doesn't sound like he had an immediate problem. Many COVID cases probably none the less. It's too vague to determine details...though I doubt this thread is really about the guy shot, so..

 

[Debater Slayer]

If the guy had a life and death immediate trauma they would focus (rather) on the guy before the COVID patient. COVID patients aren't special cause they have COVID... Beds don't come first come first serve. Unless the hospital is unethical giving beds to COVID cases without half being critical ill, it's by symptom severity.

There would be fewer critically ill COVID patients who needed beds if vaccines were mandatory, according to current studies. The question I have posed multiple times in this thread in light of that is whether or not vaccines should be mandatory in areas with a large number of COVID hospitalizations in light of that.

Put differently, which should take priority: people's ability not to get vaccinated or the prevention of situations where hospitals become overwhelmed with COVID cases leading to compromises in or unavailability of urgent medical care?

 

[We Never Know]

That and hospitals can't turn people away. Sometimes if I have a seizure I tell ER not to take me to the hospital. If I do go I'm there for an hour wasting a bed someone else could have. There are a lot of reasons why beds aren't free but ideally severity comes first not whether you're a COVID patient or not.

Are you using ER relating to first responders or emergency responders? To me ER is an emergency room which from what I know is always at a hospital. But it may be different in bigger cities.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Are you using ER relating to first responders or emergency responders? To me ER is an emergency room which from what I know is always at a hospital. But it may be different in bigger cities.

Oh. Sometimes I use ER and EMT interchangeably. But I tell the EMT not to take me to the hospital. One time I walked out the hospital and the insurance billed me.

 

[Debater Slayer]

That and hospitals can't turn people away. Sometimes if I have a seizure I tell ER not to take me to the hospital. If I do go I'm there for an hour wasting a bed someone else could have. There are a lot of reasons why beds aren't free but ideally severity comes first not whether you're a COVID patient or not.

Nowhere did I say being a COVID patient determines whether or not someone gets a bed; the situation in question is about critically ill COVID patients and critically ill patients with other conditions. At that point the severity is similar, if not sometimes almost the same in terms of urgency and threat to the patients' lives.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

In my opinion, cases like this are among multiple reasons a case could arguably be made for mandatory COVID-19 vaccination in areas with a particularly high number of infections and resultant hospitalizations.

Or the willfully unvaccinated get the boot when they need to room.

 

[We Never Know]

It doesn't sound like he had an immediate problem. Many COVID cases probably none the less. It's too vague to determine details...though I doubt this thread is really about the guy shot, so..

I know several people that had a broken a shoulder that needed surgery or had a knee or hip replacement that didn't need an ICU bed. This guy has a broken shoulder from gunshots wounds so it may be different but evidently it isn't life threatening or he would have had surgery.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Or the willfully unvaccinated get the boot when they need to room.

I don't think that would be humane or set a desirable precedent at all. It's a complicated situation made even sadder by the fact that it could have been prevented with proper measures such as vaccination and masking.

 

[We Never Know]

Or the willfully unvaccinated get the boot when they need to room.

Really! You are prioritizing peoples life's?

 

[Debater Slayer]

I know several people that had a broken a shoulder that needed surgery or had a knee or hip replacement that didn't need an ICU bed. This guy has a broken shoulder from gunshots wounds so it may be different but evidently it isn't life threatening or he would have had surgery.

I think another point to keep in mind is that death isn't the only potential complication from delayed surgery; some people need amputations or suffer irreversible damage that could be avoided with timely medical care. I hope that isn't the case with this man, but it does happen with some who suffer such injuries.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

If the solution were that simple, I don't think he would have had to wait about a week so far in order to be operated on. The issue of hospitals' being overwhelmed with COVID cases so much as to compromise medical care both for further COVID patients and patients who have other diseases isn't unique to this man's situation either:

COVID-Overwhelmed Hospitals Strain Staff and Hope to Avoid Rationing Care

'Tired to the bone': Hospitals overwhelmed with virus cases

Hospitals Face A Shortage Of Nurses As COVID Cases Soar

Considering this isn't a new situation during the pandemic, and many hospitals just have had the resources to treat everyone because of the increased strains amd demands from covid, if people haven't accepted these facts by now I don't think they ever will.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Really! You are prioritizing peoples life's?

If resources are limited I have my doubts this guy was willingly shot or put himself needless at an elevated risk. People who want to talk about personal accountability and living with the consequences of their choices can start doing the walk to back up the talk when their choices have reached such a level of detriment for others.

 

[We Never Know]

I think another point to keep in mind is that death isn't the only potential complication from delayed surgery; some people need amputations or suffer irreversible damage that could be avoided with timely medical care. I hope that isn't the case with this man, but it does happen with some who suffer such injuries.

I agree. The body will start healing around the damage and will sometimes require even more surgery.
Its like ignoring a broken bone that heels on it own wrongly and has to be rebroken to be set.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Really! You are prioritizing peoples life's?

I hope no doctor priorities patients. He may be against the unvaccinated but not insofar he'd break this medical ethics over it.

 

[JustGeorge]

***Moved to General Debates***​

 

[Debater Slayer]

I agree. The body will start healing around the damage and will sometimes require even more surgery.
Its like ignoring a broken bone that heels on it own wrongly and has to be rebroken to be set.

It seems to me that the focus in discussions about such situations should primarily be on how to minimize damage to patients and the ways in which health authorities could avoid said situations in the first place. This is why it immensely repels me when someone tries to turn it into a political argument or starts getting defensive, whether they're unvaccinated or not, at the expense of the more pertinent questions at hand.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Nowhere did I say being a COVID patient determines whether or not someone gets a bed; the situation in question is about critically ill COVID patients and critically ill patients with other conditions. At that point the severity is similar, if not sometimes almost the same in terms of urgency and threat to the patients' lives.

The link doesn't show the nature and severity of the trauma or illness. But ideally severity comes firsts when it comes to beds. Having COVID and vaccinations has little to do with it.

 

[Debater Slayer]

The link doesn't show the nature and severity of the trauma or illness. But ideally severity comes firsts when it comes to beds. Having COVID and vaccinations has little to do with it.

Vaccination and COVID have a lot to do with it. Please refer back to the links in this earlier post if you haven't already:

1) It is an issue related to vaccination because the delay in providing care for this man is a result of an overwhelming number of hospitalizations caused by COVID, which current evidence shows vaccination significantly reduces.

2) Vaccination still helps against severe sickness and death resulting from the Delta variant, albeit at a lower rate than previous variants.

Here:

Coronavirus Disease 2019

Vaccines highly effective against hospitalisation from Delta variant

Fact Check-COVID-19 vaccines so far significantly reduce severe illness and hospitalization

A notable excerpt from the last link: