Mandatory Vaccinations?

[Koldo]

Vaccinations are not without their own history of bad outcomes. See Mandatory Vaccinations?

Sure, but is it reasonable to assume an worse outcome than Covid-19 itself? Because honestly we can only behave according to what is reasonable, right?

For instance, there is a pretty small chance that your roof will collapse over your head. But if no signs show up to make this a reasonable assumption, this small chance shouldn't matter when you decide whether you will sleep inside of your house. You would reasonably assume there is a larger threat by sleeping outside. Likewise, it is the same with this vaccine. You are under a much bigger threat by not getting vaccinated.

 

[McBell]

A federal court in Texas on Saturday dismissed a lawsuit by 117 hospital employees who challenged their employer's vaccination requirement.

In the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of Texas' written decision, Judge Lynn N. Hughes said lead plaintiff Jennifer Bridges, a nurse, and 116 other Houston Methodist Hospital employees who challenged the requirement, had no case.
​

Judge dismisses lawsuit by Houston hospital employees over Covid-19 vaccinations​

 

[oldbadger]

If something has demonstrated proven efficacy over an appropriate period of time, then shaming should not have to enter into it.

Hi Deeje....
The above was not sent to me, but in the UK the value of Covid vaccinations is showing itself clearly now.
We were in a horrid Covid wave not long ago, but 1 in 10 adults came forward for vaccination and now 75% of the adult population has had 2 'jabs' and the younger adults are receiving them as well.

The daily death count fell away to single numbers and hospital admissions reduced to a mere nothing by comparison. Today the Delta/Indian variant is racing through the country (we are red listed) but the majority of the reduced hospital cases are now unvaccinated patients........

If your country should be so unlucky as to get a more infectious, more deadly strain of Covid (like Delta) then I expect the vax queues will be getting much longer than now.

 

[Deeje]

Hi Deeje....
The above was not sent to me, but in the UK the value of Covid vaccinations is showing itself clearly now.
We were in a horrid Covid wave not long ago, but 1 in 10 adults came forward for vaccination and now 75% of the adult population has had 2 'jabs' and the younger adults are receiving them as well.

The daily death count fell away to single numbers and hospital admissions reduced to a mere nothing by comparison. Today the Delta/Indian variant is racing through the country (we are red listed) but the majority of the reduced hospital cases are now unvaccinated patients........

If your country should be so unlucky as to get a more infectious, more deadly strain of Covid (like Delta) then I expect the vax queues will be getting much longer than now.

I am happy to wait OB....Aus is dealing with the virus quite adequately at the moment. The problem as I see it, is that the new strains are proving to be deadlier and more contagious than the original, so unless the current vax is also dealing with the new strains, the original jab is useless, like last year's flu shot.

Its a corona virus like the flu....only on steroids....and I nearly lost my mother several years ago from a flu shot. The doctors told her never to have another one....I found her on the bathroom floor and that jab nearly killed her....it happens. I'd like to be a lot more convinced before I allow anyone to jab me with something that basically has no long term testing done. I have never had a flu shot and don't want one.

That is my choice.

 

[fantome profane]

unless the current vax is also dealing with the new strains

It is.

 

[Deeje]

It is.

Is it? That is not what I heard from our medical authority here in Australia....if you need a separate jab for next year's flu, which is a coronavirus, then you will need a different vaccine for each new strain of this coronavirus.....how is that not obvious?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I am happy to wait OB....Aus is dealing with the virus quite adequately at the moment. The problem as I see it, is that the new strains are proving to be deadlier and more contagious than the original, so unless the current vax is also dealing with the new strains, the original jab is useless, like last year's flu shot.

Its a corona virus like the flu....only on steroids....and I nearly lost my mother several years ago from a flu shot. The doctors told her never to have another one....I found her on the bathroom floor and that jab nearly killed her....it happens. I'd like to be a lot more convinced before I allow anyone to jab me with something that basically has no long term testing done. I have never had a flu shot and don't want one.

That is my choice.

Yes, it's your choice. A foolish, reckless choice, but it is your choice.

Likewise, it's also the choice of your employer - if you have one - to decide how to respond to your choice.

 

[metis]

Is it not noticeable that the JW's Governing Body downplays science and higher education?

Vaccines have saved millions of lives over the last century, plus they are tested very carefully before the vaccines are used on the general public as a whole. However, nothing is perfect, thus there can be some side effects, and some of those can indeed be rather serious at times. However, with that being said, we well know that the risks are far less serious and numerous than going without them, plus we know that the current Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are effective against the known variants, at least thus far.

The fewer number of people who get the vaccine has another serious side effect, namely to increase the numbers of mutations of the virus that likely would occur, thus increasing the chances that current vaccines may not work against them.

 

[oldbadger]

Is it? That is not what I heard from our medical authority here in Australia....if you need a separate jab for next year's flu, which is a coronavirus, then you will need a different vaccine for each new strain of this coronavirus.....how is that not obvious?

So far, it is. The Covid vaccines are protecting us here from the Delta strain.
We are more densely packed together here and so the jab is probably more important for us.
9 in ten adults here have taken it.

 

[SkepticThinker]

The vaccine has not proven itself yet.....there is evidence that I have read that those vaccinated may even be able to spread the virus as well.....if they have one of the variants, the jab doesn’t work.....that would give some a false sense of security.......we just have no long term results at this point.

Vaccination does not stop you getting the virus.....if it is a true vaccination, it would. Vaccines are supposed to be given to prevent infection. Why does this vaccine not prevent infection in the first place? It seems weird to me that all it does is prevent you from dying.....I keep hearing “very low risk” but how do they know? That is a hope, not an established fact.

It’s been rushed and not thoroughly tested. I am not one to rushed into any decision....especially one that cannot be undone. I need to test the long term results and at this stage, there aren’t any. They are all merely suggested, because that is all they can do. They play down the risks and talk up desired results.....that isn’t good enough for me.

It’s the rock and the hard place.....vaccine related injury is not advertised for obvious reasons, (see post #127) but for the blood clotting, they know that this is related to the AZ and the J&J jabs. Long term safety and efficacy has not been demonstrated, so I will wait. That is my call....my personal decision. What others do is up to them.

Sorry, but I had to laugh at this ...

"All it does is prevent you from dying ... "

Oh, is that all!? Chuck it in the trash then, who needs that? What a waste.
/sarcasm




As to the rest of the post, long term results from vaccines tend to show up within about 8 weeks after administration. We're well beyond that now. Also, the vaccines have been thoroughly tested. You can actually look up the studies online, if you're so inclined. At this point, over 2 billion doses have been given out worldwide.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Sorry, but I had to laugh at this ...

"All it does is prevent you from dying ... "

Oh, is that all!? Chuck it in the trash then, who needs that? What a waste.
/sarcasm

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This!

 

[ecco]

A federal court in Texas on Saturday dismissed a lawsuit by 117 hospital employees who challenged their employer's vaccination requirement.

UNVERIFIED: All but two employees got the vaccinations and retained their jobs. The two who did not are no longer employed by the hospital. The lawyer for the plaintiffs promises to take it to SCOTUS. I hope he does and I hope SCOTUS hears the case and rules on it.

On a similar front, Florida's Republican Governor is still insisting that cruise ships departing from Florida cannot enforce a "vaccinated only" policy.

However.

Royal Caribbean: Avoid Florida If You Want An All-Vaccinated Cruise Ship

Unvaccinated passengers will have additional hoops to jump through. “Guests who choose not to be vaccinated or not willing to verify vaccination will be subject to testing, which will be at their expense, and additional health protocols,” said Royal Caribbean’s spokesperson.
​

Good luck enforcing the mask-wearing part of that rule. It's causing the airlines to have to get help from passengers to control unruly "no mask for me" passengers.


Bottom line, if you want to cruise with only vaccinated fellow passengers, depart from anywhere but Florida.

 

[McBell]

UNVERIFIED: All but two employees got the vaccinations and retained their jobs. The two who did not are no longer employed by the hospital. The lawyer for the plaintiffs promises to take it to SCOTUS. I hope he does and I hope SCOTUS hears the case and rules on it.

Um...
What is unverified?
Here is the paperwork for the lawsuit that was dismissed:

https://secureservercdn.net/50.62.1...ontent/uploads/2021/05/Methodist-Lawsuit1.pdf
​

Here is the Dismissal order:

https://www.scribd.com/document/511661060/DOC-18-Gov-uscourts-txsd-1830373-18-0
​

 

[ecco]

Um...
What is unverified?
Here is the paperwork for the lawsuit that was dismissed:

https://secureservercdn.net/50.62.1...ontent/uploads/2021/05/Methodist-Lawsuit1.pdf
Here is the Dismissal order:

https://www.scribd.com/document/511661060/DOC-18-Gov-uscourts-txsd-1830373-18-0

I could not verify that all but two employees got the shots and returned to work. That's why I wrote:

UNVERIFIED: All but two employees got the vaccinations and retained their jobs. The two who did not are no longer employed by the hospital.​

 

[Deeje]

Sorry, but I had to laugh at this ...

"All it does is prevent you from dying ... "

Oh, is that all!? Chuck it in the trash then, who needs that? What a waste.

LOL....perhaps I should have prefaced that with "its supposed to prevent you from dying" but again, unless you have specific vaccines for the variants, will the initial jab for the first presentation of the virus protect you from the variants that have surfaced since then? Will it prevent death from the variants? Its a legitimate question surely?

I am reading now where the new Novavax is supposed to protect from the variants. It is not approved yet....but it seems to be the only one making such claims to date.
Novavax COVID-19 Vaccine Demonstrates 89.3% Efficacy in UK Phase 3 Trial | Novavax Inc. - IR Site

As to the rest of the post, long term results from vaccines tend to show up within about 8 weeks after administration. We're well beyond that now. Also, the vaccines have been thoroughly tested. You can actually look up the studies online, if you're so inclined. At this point, over 2 billion doses have been given out worldwide.

If you say so....I will reserve judgment for myself whilst I wait for more of the negative reactions to occur and be dealt with. I am not keen to be a guinea pig....you can do whatever you wish...its your body. I will not ever put myself or anyone else at risk by being complacent about this issue. But I am mindful that vaccinations cannot be reversed. The decision you make is with you for the rest of your life. I am not confident about what is happening right now....and I can't promise that I ever will be.

EDIT to add: that this is my personal view and is in no way a reflection of the teachings of Jehovah's Witnesses. We are left to make these personal medical decisions for ourselves.

 

[McBell]

I could not verify that all but two employees got the shots and returned to work. That's why I wrote:

UNVERIFIED: All but two employees got the vaccinations and retained their jobs. The two who did not are no longer employed by the hospital.​

Ah.
Thank you for the clarification.

 

[metis]

The Vatican strongly suggests that we all get a covid vaccine because that also is also being pro-life.

 

[ecco]

I am reading now where the new Novavax is supposed to protect from the variants. It is not approved yet....but it seems to be the only one making such claims to date.

No, it doesn't seem that way at all. A quick Google search brings up...
How effective are COVID-19 vaccines against variants?
The study found that the Pfizer vaccine offered 92 per cent protection against the Alpha variant and 79 per cent against the Delta strain two weeks after the second dose. For AstraZeneca's vaccine, there was 60 per cent protection against Delta compared with 73 per cent for the Alpha variant, the researchers said.2 days ago

But I am mindful that vaccinations cannot be reversed.

Death from COVID cannot be reversed. Long term lung problems from COVID cannot be reversed.

Other problems that may or may not be reversed...

COVID-19 and Your Health

Although most people with COVID-19 get better within weeks of illness, some people experience post-COVID conditions. Post-COVID conditions are a wide range of new, returning, or ongoing health problems people can experience more than four weeks after first being infected with the virus that causes COVID-19. Even people who did not have symptoms when they were infected can have post-COVID conditions. These conditions can have different types and combinations of health problems for different lengths of time.

CDC and experts around the world are working to learn more about short- and long-term health effects associated with COVID-19, who gets them, and why.

Types of Post-COVID Conditions
Long COVID
Long COVID is a range of symptoms that can last weeks or months after first being infected with the virus that causes COVID-19 or can appear weeks after infection. Long COVID can happen to anyone who has had COVID-19, even if the illness was mild, or they had no symptoms. People with long COVID report experiencing different combinations of the following symptoms:

• Tiredness or fatigue
• Difficulty thinking or concentrating (sometimes referred to as “brain fog”)
• Headache
• Loss of smell or taste
• Dizziness on standing
• Fast-beating or pounding heart (also known as heart palpitations)
• Chest pain
• Difficulty breathing or shortness of breath
• Cough
• Joint or muscle pain
• Depression or anxiety
• Fever
• Symptoms that get worse after physical or mental activities

These are facts not anecdotes. Another fact is that there are virtually no side effects from the vaccines.

However, the decision is yours. I ask one favor. Show a friend or acquaintance how to get into RF and ask them to post your obituary here should you die from COVID. That way we will know what happened to you.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

They knew about the smoking ban before they got the job. How does that compare?

Not before smoking were banned.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Not before smoking were banned.

Even if that was the point, people a. See people smoking b. Know not to smoke in a person's face and c. Know not to be next to someone who smokes so they won't have a "possible" chance they may be in danger of catching lung cancer; which is very slim.

I guess if that compares it would be the same with COVID. If your chance of catching COVID is lower than another, your reasoning to get the vaccine becomes less of an issue to none.

When you're in a smoking environment and only one person smokes, one doesn't need to wear a patch "just in case" that smoke gets in their face and they develop an addiction.

It's like everyone rushing to get the patch just in case someone "will" smoke in their face, be addicted to smoking, and catch lung cancer (EDIT).

COVID vaccines may be appropriate in some cases but definitely not all.

People shouldn't get a hissy fit on strangers unvaccinated in itself unless that person intentionally "smokes" in others faces. If you don't know if that person smokes (has COVID), why work yourself up?

I mean no doctor will tell you to take actual medicine just in case you develop a contagious disease unless "maybe" she feels your situation and health warrants it...even then this Expert ethically knows not to push the meds on the patient and he knows to respect the patients decisions if he does not.

If experts can "because of their job," why can't they do so off the job and provaxxers in general?

Does a doctor's medical oath and people's respect fly out the door when he gets to her parking lot or disagrees with another person's health choices? Double standard...