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Mandatory Vaccinations?

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
Even if that was the point, people a. See people smoking b. Know not to smoke in a person's face and c. Know not to be next to someone who smokes so they won't have a "possible" chance they may be in danger of catching lung cancer; which is very slim.

None of that matters to the point.
That point being: at first the policy was X, later the policy changed. There were no "special" rules for those who signed their contract before the policy change.

So why should there be here, which was the point being implied and which is what I was responding to...?

I guess if that compares it would be the same with COVID. If your chance of catching COVID is lower than another, your reasoning to get the vaccine becomes less of an issue to none.

When you're in a smoking environment and only one person smokes, one doesn't need to wear a patch "just in case" that smoke gets in their face and they develop an addiction.

It's like everyone rushing to get the patch just in case someone "will" smoke in their face, be addicted to smoking, and catch lung cancer (EDIT).

COVID vaccines may be appropriate in some cases but definitely not all.

People shouldn't get a hissy fit on strangers unvaccinated in itself unless that person intentionally "smokes" in others faces. If you don't know if that person smokes (has COVID), why work yourself up?

All this is besides the actual point (not to mention ignorant - but that's not even relevant).
The point was about policy change. Not about the reasons for why smoking got banned in certain places or why this particular vaccine is now mandatory in certain places.

I mean no doctor will tell you to take actual medicine just in case you develop a contagious disease unless "maybe" she feels your situation and health warrants it

Yet every doctor will tell you to get vaccinated. Except for a few marginal nutcases left and right, off course.
But even this is not relevant to the point being made.

...even then this Expert ethically knows not to push the meds on the patient and he knows to respect the patients decisions if he does not.

And people who refuse to get vaccinated with a certain vaccine, must bear the consequences.
As others have said, plenty of schools demand kids to be vaccinated against all kinds of things.
Sure, you can go and be irresponsible and not get your kids vaccinated. You then can also go and look for a school that will allow them to go there.

Does a doctor's medical oath and people's respect fly out the door when he gets to her parking lot or disagrees with another person's health choices? Double standard...

There's no double standard here. There's only your strawman (and ignorance, I'ld say).
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
None of that matters to the point.
That point being: at first the policy was X, later the policy changed. There were no "special" rules for those who signed their contract before the policy change.

So why should there be here, which was the point being implied and which is what I was responding to...?

It's the context. If there wasn't coercion and push for the vaccine, I think they'd probably be a bit more willing to take it per their job. In and of itself, though, I don't agree people need to lose their job because of this.

The COVID vaccine situation is much more charged than just any vaccine required due to change of rules. It's assuming that context doesn't apply and people just should follow "or" loose their job-coercion.

What would happen if majority of the workers left their hospital job (and any job for that matter)?

How would the hospitals and government for that matter handle that immediate lost?

I also wonder if provaxxers would laugh at the people who lost their jobs-even more so catch COVID.

All this is besides the actual point (not to mention ignorant - but that's not even relevant).

The point was about policy change. Not about the reasons for why smoking got banned in certain places or why this particular vaccine is now mandatory in certain places.

You mean more there was a smoking policy and now there is none and people shouldn't be upset just the same as the vaccine policy from where there wasn't one until required?

Smoking wouldn't be a good example for vaccines. It's better argument for masks because in both cases, people can stop smoking or wear masks-it's versatile.

A lot of the arguments with vaccines is it's not versatile. They actually inject you with it (however it works). It's one thing to be told to wear clothes when walking in a store and a whole 'nother to say you have to take X medication before coming into the store.

That's the difference.

Yet every doctor will tell you to get vaccinated. Except for a few marginal nutcases left and right, off course. But even this is not relevant to the point being made.

You get my point, though?

I'm talking about ethics. A doctor won't tell you to get vaccinated if he knows you have a condition that prevents it and he won't push it on you if you believe it's not in your best interests.

The point is that "experts" weigh the situation before telling people to take the vaccine.

Provaxxers push it on people without thinking of any other factors involve...yet they say they are listening to the experts.

And people who refuse to get vaccinated with a certain vaccine, must bear the consequences.

As others have said, plenty of schools demand kids to be vaccinated against all kinds of things.
Sure, you can go and be irresponsible and not get your kids vaccinated. You then can also go and look for a school that will allow them to go there.

They "may" bear the consequences (must sounds like fear-it's not definite-we just don't know). They put themselves at "a" risk of catching COVID, but the "level" of risk depends on the person not whether or not he or she took the vaccine in and of itself.

The problem is if Joe (going off of this point only not the OP), if Joe lived isolated with vary little population which there are many in the States or small population in some states and decides not to take the vaccine while another person in a heavily populated area decides not to take the vaccine, provaxxers will treat them the same-saying they refuse, not thinking of others, selfish, and ignorant.

Wouldn't they need to know more about these two people to make a determination whether or not they "warrant" those accusations (if one likes) and not make a blanketed statement just because someone says he or she is not vaccinated?

There's no double standard here. There's only your strawman (and ignorance, I'ld say).

Because you disagree with me?

Double standard doesn't imply attacking a person's intellect (it's not attacking the person, just the argument).
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
You get my point, though?

I'm talking about ethics. A doctor won't tell you to get vaccinated if he knows you have a condition that prevents it and he won't push it on you if you believe it's not in your best interests.
That doctor would still advise someone who isn't vaccinated to avoid situations where their unvaccinated status puts themselves or others at risk.

And speaking of ethics, it would be unethical for a professional in a health care setting to unnecessarily increase the risk of their patients catching a deadly disease.

This doesn't necessarily mean that they're obligated to get vaccinated, but it would mean that they'd be obligated to avoid direct patient contact if they aren't vaccinated.
 
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Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
That doctor would still advise someone who isn't vaccinated to avoid situations where their unvaccinated status puts themselves or others ar risk.

And speaking of ethics, it would be unethical for a professional in a health care setting to unnecessarily increase the risk of their patients catching a deadly disease.

This doesn't necessarily mean that they're obligated to get vaccinated, but it would mean that they'd be obligated to avoid direct patient contact if they aren't vaccinated.

A doctor would advise a patient of his to be safe and social distance.
If the patient came in with COVID, he'd say "stay home until you feel better."

He won't push the patient to get the vaccine nor will he say that the patient is running around endangering others. Instead, he'd probably say "if you are at a high risk of catching COVID, I'd advise that you get the vaccine....but if your situation doesn't warrant it, it is your choice. I will help you either way."

There. is. nothing wrong
with taking the COVID vaccine just in case.

The increase is relative to those who took the vaccine.

For example, if both of us didn't take the vaccine, we'd be at the same risk (not level of risk). Once you take the vaccine, you brought down your chances relative to mine. So, my chances were not increased "more." It's the same risk just you lowered your risk.

Usually things like life/death treatment, medicines, etc doctors "strongly advice" patients and loved ones for the betterment of the patient (and depending on the illness) other's health.

In this case, since experts are still learning about COVID, we can only really guess (and basically said so). The doctors can only advise-that's ethical-but it's not a life/death scenario where they need the vaccine now because "their level of risk" may not warrant it.

Edit. This is excluding the media, experts push, and vaccine-vaccine-vaccine persuasion cause that has a play in people's decisions over the COVID vaccine thing.

Do you consider level of risk important and other X factors important when it comes to "possibly" endangering others?
 
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Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
That doctor would still advise someone who isn't vaccinated to avoid situations where their unvaccinated status puts themselves or others at risk.

And speaking of ethics, it would be unethical for a professional in a health care setting to unnecessarily increase the risk of their patients catching a deadly disease.

This doesn't necessarily mean that they're obligated to get vaccinated, but it would mean that they'd be obligated to avoid direct patient contact if they aren't vaccinated.

Main defense: there are multiple factors to consider when accusing a person of endangering others. This level of risk is not the same as being at risk and is irrelevant, the latter, cause we are all at a risk if, say, getting cancer, developing a rare condition, or breaking a leg.

You can reason some unvaccinated are taking their health for granted but these are assumptions (endangering, not caring, ignorant) and are not facts.

Doctors will decide level of risk before giving advice, and vaccines should not be an exception.

There is nothing wrong with the vaccine.

People have the right to question no matter how illogical it may seem.

But assumptions aren't facts. The ball isn't in provaxxers courts just because he says he cares for others. A lot more involved than that.
 
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Friend of Mara

Active Member
Not that I am aware of.
But then, to the best of my knowledge, no other vaccine has had the media coverage the COVID-19 vaccine has had.
It can vary hospital to hospital. But when I worked in one as a CNA I had to have my basic ones The big one was the TB vaccine. If you didn't have it you had to get it unless you had a medical reason why.
 

McBell

Unbound
It can vary hospital to hospital. But when I worked in one as a CNA I had to have my basic ones The big one was the TB vaccine. If you didn't have it you had to get it unless you had a medical reason why.
I have seen where an individual here and there made news for refusing a vaccine, but nothing on the scale of the hospital in Houston.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Not that I am aware of.
But then, to the best of my knowledge, no other vaccine has had the media coverage the COVID-19 vaccine has had.

I wonder if there was another way how to handle that. I'm not personally against the vaccine, but the way the hospital handled that and the way the vaccine is being pushed, that's what I disagree with. I honestly can't smile that so many people got fired or resigned because they didn't want to get the vaccine. The whole thing is terrible. Who can smile at such a thing of people loosing their jobs. I mean, my brother is homeless because he his job let a lot of people go when the pandemic was at its worse. Does he deserve to be homeless if his government job required him to get the vaccine (which is different than required).

Just thinking out loud, but that's something I will never support-and, I do believe there was some bias in the court system.... I don't know about Texas, but some states are more (how to say) prejudice than others-for lack of better words.
 

Friend of Mara

Active Member
I have seen where an individual here and there made news for refusing a vaccine, but nothing on the scale of the hospital in Houston.
Indeed. Though I have never seen an anti-vaccine movement for a single vaccine before either. It usually goes "Do you have the TB vaccine" "I don't think so." "Okay go down health department with this slip and they'll give it to you." "Okay." and that was the end of it.

Edit:
If someone was an anti-vaccer it would go like this.
"Do you have a TB" "I don't believe in vaccin-" "We will now be considering other options. Have a nice day"
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
They did not "lose" their jobs.
They quit.
Or got fired for violating company policy.

Now the question is are they eligible for unemployment.
Too bad the extra $300 a week is going away...

They lost their jobs because they were fired.

In Texas?

I wonder if they can find a job somewhere else that would pay them as much they did when working.
 

McBell

Unbound
They lost their jobs because they were fired.

In Texas?

I wonder if they can find a job somewhere else that would pay them as much they did when working.
They quit.

It is nothing more than suicide by cop.
They refused the vaccine knowing they would get fired over it.



Depends upon how the Health Dept see it.
They could all very well lose their licenses.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
They quit.

It is nothing more than suicide by cop.
They refused the vaccine knowing they would get fired over it.



Depends upon how the Health Dept see it.
They could all very well lose their licenses.

"153 Houston hospital workers fired, resign over vaccine rule"
"153 Hospital Workers Quit Or Were Fired Because They Refused To Get COVID Vaccines"

It was an ultimatum-comply or get fired. Some quit, yes. I wouldn't blame them.

I just hope they can get other jobs... but, most likely not in the medical field though.
 

jonathan180iq

Well-Known Member
Quitting your job over a quick shot seems a bit ridiculous, doesn't it? If your place of employment requires something, and you don't meet that requirement, why should you be entitled to keep that job?

Would you have gotten a job in the first place, if there was a requirement for employment that you didn't meet? Nope...

I have an continuing education requirement. If I fall out of current status on continuing ed., I am unable to maintain certification, and if I'm not certified, all of my work is voided. How is a medical professional, required to maintain a vaccination status to work in a medical setting, any different?

We Americans love to make basic things way too complicated so we can feel special, usually under the guise of "FrEeDoM!"
 
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