Not really, just as numbers who believe any particular thing is neither any such proof for the belief. Given these are much the same.
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Many many Chariot wheels found at bottom of Red sea.
- Thread starter servant1
- Start date
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
Oh come on! A tradition which celebrates something like the Exodus is a very long lived and strong tradition.
And what are the 'these' that are much the same? Can you think of a couple of celebrations like that?
I'm a strong non-theist but I do think that there might be a historical incident, an escaping of slaves on a large scale which was magnified in to miraculous events.
Why do you think cultures survive - even though there are so many different ones? Modern beliefs in religion are mainly down to religion being educated and/or indoctrinated into children - who have no defences against such. One could look at so many things passed on that are not true but believed so for many generations. Beliefs change when sufficient evidence arrives to show the truth. Yet many YEC believers even today can't accept such evidence. Why would a myth not survive if readily believed and no evidence to prove otherwise?
As I pointed out - the numbers believing anything is no guarantee of truth, and neither is cultural belief when evidence is absent. All the latter indicates is that such a belief might be preferable over others and has value for the particular community.
Audie
Veteran Member
Astrology is passed on as a cultural belief tho it’s no better than
base superstition at best
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
This is a thread about the Exodus and it's annual celebrations and you want to talk about modern beliefs? Really?
I asked for any similar tradition to the Exodus and Passover festival celebrations. Nothing yet.
You want guarantees of truth?
All I can propose are some interesting possibilities with some circumstantial evidence.
There's quite a lot of the exodus story that fits together well, but not connected with any 'parting sea' miracle, only extreme natural events.
Wandering Monk
Well-Known Member
There is no evidence of a large population of Hebrews existing in ancient Egypt -- and in a literate, arid, well-known region like Egypt I'd expect some mention of these Hebrews, as well as some genetic remains.
If half or more of Egypt's population suddenly left, I'd expect some evidence or mention of such a momentous event.
If a massive population of Hebrews dwelt for 40 years in a desert, I'd expect some archæological evidence left behind.
You are of course free to believe what you will (and to do the research to validate those beliefs), but that is far different than pointing to the fact that a tradition is long-lived as evidence of worth.
Furthermore, the long-lived character of the exodus was and is in many ways the consequence of a story being successfully promoted via a vernacular alphabet and later deemed scripture. In a very real sense it is not a long-lived tradition but a long-lived text.
And why "escaping of slaves on a large scale" rather than the Hyksos "expulsion," or an 'exodus' by a small group of Egyptian priests later relabelled as Levites, or ... ?
As for relevant evidence, the Elephantine papyri and ostraca is intriguing. Note, for example ...
The Elephantine papyri pre-date all extant manuscripts of the Hebrew Bible, and thus give scholars a very important glimpse at how Judaism was practiced in Egypt during the fifth century BCE,[10] as they seem to show evidence of the existence in c. 400 BCE of a polytheistic sect of Jews. It is widely agreed that this Elephantine community originated in the mid-seventh or mid-sixth centuries BCE, likely as a result of Judean and Samaritan refugees fleeing into Egypt during the times of Assyrian and Babylonian invasions.[11] They seem to have had no knowledge of a written Torah or the narratives described therein.[12]
Also important is the fact that the papyri document the existence of a small Jewish temple at Elephantine, which possessed altars for incense offerings and animal sacrifices, as late as 411 BCE. Such a temple would be in clear violation of Deuteronomic law, which stipulates that no Jewish temple may be constructed outside of Jerusalem.[10]: 31 Furthermore, the papyri show that the Jews at Elephantine sent letters to the high priest in Jerusalem asking for his support in re-building their temple, which seems to suggest that the priests of the Jerusalem Temple were not enforcing Deuteronomic law at that time. Cowley notes that their petition expressed their pride at having a temple to Ya'u, ' Yahweh ' (no other god is mentioned in the petition) and gave no suggestion that their temple could be heretical.[12]
Yes, the photos are easily Googled -- but they're fake. The story has been around for years, and has been thoroughly debunked.
Even given a find of chariot wheels, how does this verify the exodus, especially given the lack of any other confirmatory evidence that would have been easily discovered?
See Wikipedia: Slavery in ancient Egypt
Now, given your expertise:
- How many of these folks might have been Semites?
- How did you managed to count the number of Hebrews among them?
Remember that no one wore Magen Davids back then.
I'm contrasting the scriptural claims with the archæological evidence.
See Wikipedia: Slavery in ancient Egypt
Now, given your expertise:
- How many of these folks might have been Semites?
- How did you managed to count the number of Hebrews among them?
Remember that no one wore Magen Davids back then.
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servant1
Active Member
I know 100% the flood occurred. All that know and love God do.
servant1
Active Member
The true religion obeys Jesus.
Wandering Monk
Well-Known Member
According to Jesus' brother James, this is true religion:
James 1:27 Religion that is pure and undefiled before God, the Father, is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world.
Your point was that because many believe this story then it is more likely to have occurred. Not so, just as many believe other such beliefs, and these also not having an effect on the religious belief necessarily being true. That's all. Numbers don't mean much when provenance cannot be verified.
No, the various religions claiming to be Christian obeys their various interpretations on the meaning of purported quotes offered by anonymous apologists writing decades after the words were presumably uttered.
Forgive me if I find that less than clear, much less compelling.
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
This thread is closely connected to the Exodus though.
But you're right that it is about claims of chariot wheels being found in the Red Sea..... Did you want to discuss that?
I'm neutral about that.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
No, you do not. That is a false claim on your part. If you did then you could explain away all of the evidence against the flood in a reasonable way. But you do not even understand the concept of evidence. The simple fact is that you lack the knowledge to make that claim.
Are you willing to learn?
But it's how you know this that interests me. Don't believers in other religions make the same claim for their mythology?