Mao Tse-Tung and Pol Pot killed in the name of atheism

[Sunstone]

1) The was an Old last will and Testament replaced by an New last will and Testament. When you replace your Last Will and Testament, what happens to the Old?

Yes, everyone knows that's how some Christians view the matter. What you don't mention here, Ken, is that many don't view the matter that way. Beyond that, you fail to address the fact that the Old Testament has been used by Christians to justify killing people. Is this news to you, Ken?

Ingerestingly enough, you didn't quote one scripture in the NT or by Jesus that would support killing.

So, now you're claiming not to know that the New Testament too has been used in the same way as the Old to justify killing people? None so blind as those who will not see.

"The Book of Revelation has been used to justify violence and has served as an inspiration of revolutionary movements."

The way we perceive our own religion can be very different from how an objective and informed outsider might see it. I learned that decades ago in my university courses on various religions.

 

[ronki23]

I, as an atheist do not justify any killing, i could not speak for anyone else. But i notice you didn't answer my question...

As far as i know poll pot did not reject his religion, but considered nationalism more important than religious faith.

I'm sure he rejected it else he wouldn't have killed so many Monkz

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Wrong... they killed in the name of communism, which insists that people worship the state. They simply didn't want to have to compete with religions.

Actually, Marxist branches of communism typically view religion as not competition, but as a significant social oppressor that serves to instill the values of the bourgeoisie unto the proletariat and keep them subdued. "Religion is the opium of the masses." And there is no "state worship," rather under Stalin and Maoist types of Communism a state-enforced state-control over many facets of life.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I'm sure he rejected it else he wouldn't have killed so many Monkz

Or he was a cut throat politician.

 

[Sunstone]

I'm sure he rejected it else he wouldn't have killed so many Monkz

So Pol Pot was no hypocrite then. Implausible, I'd say.

 

[Cacotopia]

That was the old testament is a poorly thought defense. You destroy the credibility of the new testament by removing the cause for the new testament, there is no original sin, there are no ten commandments, there is no reason for jesus to be on the earth. And in the new testament Matthew 5:18 says that Jesus said that not a tiny bit of the old covenant shall be changed until the culmination of god's plan. So all the old laws are in place. Even if the Christians don't want it to be. You still need to beat your kids, you still can be put to death for lobster, or wearing two kinds of fabric on your person. And all the other horrific crap that the bible has rules about, a priest's daughter can never have sex and is under law if she does shall be put to death. You have to marry your rape victim. It all needs to be followed.

IE the old testament still stands.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

I guess what I said was right. Pray tell... why do they kill people of faith?

Maybe because people of faith were attempting to overthrow the government? Or that people of faith pretend that they have this Magic Book which they claim Over Rides the Rule Of Law, and that people of faith don't need no "gub'ment laws an' stuffs ---"?

I've seen that argument multiple times, in multiple places-- where people of faith claim their Magic Book means they do not HAVE TO FOLLOW SOCIETY'S RULES.

Here in the USA, for example, people of faith used their Magic Book to "justify" killing of gays, and to try to stop gay weddings, and other shenanigans.

Does that explain it for you, or do I need to spell it out some more?

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Firstly, if Mao was a 'spiritualist' then why did he destroy so many Buddhist and indigenous temple?

Wrong brand. Duuuhhhh..... <sheesh.....>

Or is it that they refused to bow to his Rules, and rebelled, and were killed for their rebellion?

Hmmmmmm....

Secondly, atheists say Mao and Pol Pot didn't kill in the name of atheism.

Correct. You NEVER hear a terrorist battle cry: "DO NOT BELIEVE OR DIE".

But. All too often, we DO hear, "Death to Infidels" or "God is great" or "We don't want your kind around here in God's Country" and very similar slogans.

But many terrorist attacks are not in the name of religion

You got an example? No? Interesting....

either so it's double standards. I've not studied the Qu'ran nor am I Muslim but I'm sure it doesn't say to murder, rape and enslave.

Actually.....! No, nevermind... you wouldn't believe me anyway...

The same goes for Hinduism and Buddhism; Hindu scriptures don't say Sikhs are the enemy and should be murdered and raped and Buddhism never said to the Burmese to murder and rape Rohingyas

Perhaps. Yet, there are atrocities committed in the name of these groups... or on behalf of their gods....

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Atheism doesn't have scriptures. But Mao and Pol Pot still killed many Buddhists (and Muslims) and destroyed temples and religious architecture

Sure! They were direct competition with his POWER base. I've no doubt their leaders advocated rebellion against their regimes.

It was not because either of these were atheists (in fact, they were not really, but nevermindthat).

Neither was it because the Big Book Of Atheism demanded they kill believers-- wait-- there is no such book. Ooops! (but there are countless theistic books which do demand the death of heretics and non-believers)

This isn't that difficult to understand, unless you are intent on painting a false picture...

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

They killed in the name of anti-theism.

False. Repeating the exact same lie does not, in fact, make it any more true.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

I hope no one reading your posts is irrational enough to assume there is anything about Christianity that logically implies one ought to kill people for any reason.

Oh, sure-- look at History, in the South in the USA. Wherein Christianity was trotted out as the Justification of enslaving the Black Man.

And if any of those Christian Sanctioned Slaves dared to try to flee? They could be killed--- all neatly "Justified" by the Christian Bible. Those nice verses that admonish slaves to obey their masters, and the reminder that God made them slaves in the first place, and they must Glorify Jesus by remaining good little Christian Slaves.

And yes-- that's all NT stuff. The OT is much, much worse...

Then? There's that whole "Never Suffer A Witch To Live" stuff-- neatly used by God Fearing Christians to murder any women they did not like--- oops, I mean-- who were Witches.

The more I remember the bible? The more I remember the many places where it not only justifies killing, but actually demands it of it's worshipers....

 

[QuestioningMind]

Actually, Marxist branches of communism typically view religion as not competition, but as a significant social oppressor that serves to instill the values of the bourgeoisie unto the proletariat and keep them subdued. "Religion is the opium of the masses." And there is no "state worship," rather under Stalin and Maoist types of Communism a state-enforced state-control over many facets of life.

Stalin and Mao both insisted upon worship of the state and state enforced control over every aspect of their lives.

 

[ChristineM]

I'm sure he rejected it else he wouldn't have killed so many Monkz

You dont know much about religion do you.

He killed anyone who opposed his version of nationalism, career had nothing to do with it

And still you didn't answer my question

 

[Augustus]

I still think you're giving atheism more gravitas than it should have. As indeed I think Marx did.

For Marx, the idea that no god exists was as important ant as the idea that a god does exist in certain religions.

It was a key axiom on which his philosophy was built.

But, ok. I think I understand your point.

Just that beliefs don't exist in a vacuum and thus often have consequences.

If one believe there are no gods, this might influence one's attitude towards religions and their adherents, question regarding morality, purpose and existence, etc.

 

[Kenny]

Yes, everyone knows that's how some Christians view the matter. What you don't mention here, Ken, is that many don't view the matter that way. Beyond that, you fail to address the fact that the Old Testament has been used by Christians to justify killing people. Is this news to you, Ken?

You can find someone Christians who believe that Jesus already came... what people believe or how they twist things isn't what I said.

Let me say it again, in case you didn't read it: show me one scripture that Jesus said or the NT writer declared that we should kill someone.

Is there a reason you don't want to say "There isn't any"?

So, now you're claiming not to know that the New Testament too has been used in the same way as the Old to justify killing people? None so blind as those who will not see.

"The Book of Revelation has been used to justify violence and has served as an inspiration of revolutionary movements."

The way we perceive our own religion can be very different from how an objective and informed outsider might see it. I learned that decades ago in my university courses on various religions.

Hmmmm.... please read above.

 

[Kenny]

Maybe because people of faith were attempting to overthrow the government? Or that people of faith pretend that they have this Magic Book which they claim Over Rides the Rule Of Law, and that people of faith don't need no "gub'ment laws an' stuffs ---"?

I've seen that argument multiple times, in multiple places-- where people of faith claim their Magic Book means they do not HAVE TO FOLLOW SOCIETY'S RULES.

Here in the USA, for example, people of faith used their Magic Book to "justify" killing of gays, and to try to stop gay weddings, and other shenanigans.

Does that explain it for you, or do I need to spell it out some more?

Yes... as long as you can say that atheists also used their magical position to kill people.

My position has always been that people kill people and twist thinking to justify it no matter what their belief is. In atheism, however, I haven't found one person (yet) who will admit it.d Will you be the first?

 

[leibowde84]

If religion is so bad, then no religion is worse as Mao killed to purge China of religion and we saw 20-70 million die under Mao's regime, the most people who died under one person's rule. Granted most deaths were starvation but 14.5 to 18.7 deaths were landowners plus up to 2 million counterrevolutionaries. The majority of Chinese art and architecture was destroyed during the Cultural Revolution. I hate Mao

Pol Pot was even worse; he killed people just because they were Buddhist or Muslim but he also killed professionals (including people who worse glasses), Viets and Chinese. A quarter of Cambodia's population was killed off.

Do atheists and antitheists justify the killings of theists under Mao and Pol Pot?

@Aupmanyav @viole

Neither Mao nor Pot's violent actions represent Atheism in any way. They didn't even claim that it did. Just because someone happens to not believe in God or has hatred for organized religion doesn't magically put blame on atheism when they act like idiots. You are being dishonest about this. There are murderers who are religious. There are murderers who are not. They aren't doing anything "in the name of Atheism". Nice try though.

 

[Milton Platt]

I was talking about Communism and atheism regardless of location. If you don't know what happened in Cuba, study?

I am old enough to remember very well. A U.S. backed, corrupt dictator was overthrown by Fidel Castro. There were various people and organizations who were considered backers of the corrupt government, and many religious organizations fell into this category. Were all of them in that camp? I don't know.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Yes... as long as you can say that atheists also used their magical position to kill people.

Except that there is no magic or magical position in Atheism. There is no Atheist Bible. There is no Atheist Creed. There are no Atheist Rules Of Acquisition.

In direct and opposite to all-- no exceptions-- religion, each of which have multiple books that they consider magical, and "above" human created things-- in spite of the fact that none can prove such claims.

My position has always been that people kill people and twist thinking to justify it no matter what their belief is. In atheism, however, I haven't found one person (yet) who will admit it.d Will you be the first?

Well, here's the thing: We atheists keep hearing from you christians, how superior being a Genuine Christian automatically makes you. We keep hearing from you christians, how superior your bible's rules are, as compared to ... well, anything.

Okay, if that were even a little true? I would fully expect History to be devoid of any Evil Acts, committed by christians. If the bible is All That? I would fully expect all societies or groups, who push the bible as #1, to be superior in every meaningful way, to all other groups.

Is that the case? No? Why not???

In fact-- History does show us a time when the Bible Was the Rule Of Law--- Europe during the Dark Ages, was pretty much Ruled by Christianity As Government. Religion and Government were interchangeable during that time--- one and the same.

Hmmmmmmmm....... it appears that your Magic Bible isn't all that USEFUL as a MORAL GUIDE. Is it?

 

[Kenny]

I am old enough to remember very well. A U.S. backed, corrupt dictator was overthrown by Fidel Castro. There were various people and organizations who were considered backers of the corrupt government, and many religious organizations fell into this category. Were all of them in that camp? I don't know.

That the government before was corrupt... I agree. That pastors lost their lives killed by Castro? yes. That churches were bulldozed down and other pastors thrown into jail just because they were Christians? Absolutely. Not by my word but by the word of honest pastors that lived and continue to live in that regime.

I remember when our associate pastor went to Cuba. He took notes of what little food was received by the people of Cuba as well as other situations.. When he got back to the States, those pages had been ripped out of his note pad, courtesy of the government.